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      02-18-2013, 09:10 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by kingofthedemo View Post
Wow the fact you would even go there in a thread like this- where the victims family member is among us is shocking to me, that is just disturbing, and far beyond poor taste.
This is why you are going to end up in a bad place. The world is trying to tell you something yet you refuse to listen and just want to be happily deluded - you honestly should not have left the womb.
Bad things happen not because of 'bad luck' or fate, but because of STUPIDITY that the dead man commited. Now do you feel like crying? Oh, I'm so sorry you should not have went on the internet, there are bad people there that tell you nasty facts about the world that AREN'T TRUE (sarcasm) because the world is a kind and snuggly place.
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      02-18-2013, 09:25 AM   #46
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I think you guys need to understand the law between manslaughter and murder.

Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion," under circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed.

Voluntary manslaughter. This is often called a "heat of passion" crime. Voluntary manslaughter arises when a person is suddenly provoked (in circumstances which are likely to provoke many reasonable people) and kills in the heat of passion aroused by that provocation. That the killing is not considered first or second degree murder is a concession to human weakness. Killers who act in the heat of passion may kill intentionally, but the emotional context prevents them from having the ability to fully control their behavior. As a result, the heat of passion reduces their moral blameworthiness.
The common example of voluntary manslaughter involves a husband who comes home unexpectedly to find his wife committing adultery. If the husband is provoked into such a heat of passion that he kills the paramour right then and there, a judge or jury might very well consider the killing to be voluntary manslaughter.

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"
Sounds like YOU need to understand the law. This was certainly not in the heat of passion. That would require a situation that "causes a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". I certainly dont think a reasonable person flips out after dropping a sandwich.

However, second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance (as in this case).

Per wiki: "For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter"
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      02-18-2013, 09:34 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by kingofthedemo View Post
Wow the fact you would even go there in a thread like this- where the victims family member is among us is shocking to me, that is just disturbing, and far beyond poor taste.
I don't think it was right to kill a man over being laughed at during a time of duress, but on the other side, you probably shouldn't laugh in someone's face when they are obviously worked up about a situation, you just don't know how someone is going to react.
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      02-18-2013, 10:10 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
This is why you are going to end up in a bad place. The world is trying to tell you something yet you refuse to listen and just want to be happily deluded - you honestly should not have left the womb.
Bad things happen not because of 'bad luck' or fate, but because of STUPIDITY that the dead man commited. Now do you feel like crying? Oh, I'm so sorry you should not have went on the internet, there are bad people there that tell you nasty facts about the world that AREN'T TRUE (sarcasm) because the world is a kind and snuggly place.
Calm down Sally
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      02-18-2013, 11:18 AM   #49
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Calm down Sally
Happiness is a retard
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      02-18-2013, 12:39 PM   #50
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A bullet outside the courthouse would have been a justified punishment.... And to think, he will be out in 11 years with nothing but more anger in him to unleash on someone....
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      02-18-2013, 02:31 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Sounds like YOU need to understand the law. This was certainly not in the heat of passion. That would require a situation that "causes a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". I certainly dont think a reasonable person flips out after dropping a sandwich.

However, second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance (as in this case).

Per wiki: "For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter"
I need to understand the law? You need to learn how to READ and UNDERSTAND the law. Your right, a normal person won't flip out after dropping a sandwich. But a normal person WOULD flip out if I was being laughed at after I dropped my sandwich.

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A murder can be reduced to voluntary manslaughter if the defendant acted in the heat of passion. A killing in the heat of passion requires: 1) that the defendant was provoked, 2) that the provocation caused the defendant to act rashly and under the influence of intense emotion, obscuring his judgment and reasoning, and 3) the provocation would have caused the average person to act rashly

In other words, to qualify for heat-of-passion voluntary manslaughter, the jury must find the defendant was so provoked by what the victim did, and reasonably so, that he killed out of intense emotion rather than deliberate judgment.


This wasn't a bar fight. This was a case of someone provoking the defendant by laughing at him for dropping his sandwich, which made him act "rashly and under influence of intense emotion."
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      02-18-2013, 02:38 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Inspired View Post
I need to understand the law? You need to learn how to READ and UNDERSTAND the law. Your right, a normal person won't flip out after dropping a sandwich. But a normal person WOULD flip out if I was being laughed at after I dropped my sandwich.

This wasn't a bar fight. This was a case of someone provoking the defendant by laughing at him for dropping his sandwich, which made him act "rashly and under influence of intense emotion."
Well I guess what you consider a rational human reaction and what I do are totally different. Per your quote above "3) the provocation would have caused the average person to act rashly"


Aside from you, I dont think anyone else on here would agree that the average person would resort to physically beating a person because that person laughed at him in some sandwich shop

And while yes, you are correct that this was not a bar fight, I think that example more closely models this situation than yours. In a bar fight you are intending to do harm (but not kill) and if you happen to kill the person it would likely be murder in the 2nd degree. This was a fight (albeit a one-sided fight) in a sandwich shop whereby the perp was intending to inflict harm.
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      02-18-2013, 02:56 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Well I guess what you consider a rational human reaction and what I do are totally different. Per your quote above "3) the provocation would have caused the average person to act rashly"


Aside from you, I dont think anyone else on here would agree that the average person would resort to physically beating a person because that person laughed at him in some sandwich shop

And while yes, you are correct that this was not a bar fight, I think that example more closely models this situation than yours. In a bar fight you are intending to do harm (but not kill) and if you happen to kill the person it would likely be murder in the 2nd degree. This was a fight (albeit a one-sided fight) in a sandwich shop whereby the perp was intending to inflict harm.
You wouldn't flip out if you were being laughed at for dropping your sandwich? A normal person wouldn't be very happy if you were being laughed at for dropping a sandwich.

Where did I say I would resort to violence? I wouldn't resort to violence but I would most likely flip this person off if they laughed at me, which is considered acting rashly and heat of passion.
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      02-18-2013, 03:01 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Well I guess what you consider a rational human reaction and what I do are totally different. Per your quote above "3) the provocation would have caused the average person to act rashly"


Aside from you, I dont think anyone else on here would agree that the average person would resort to physically beating a person because that person laughed at him in some sandwich shop

And while yes, you are correct that this was not a bar fight, I think that example more closely models this situation than yours. In a bar fight you are intending to do harm (but not kill) and if you happen to kill the person it would likely be murder in the 2nd degree. This was a fight (albeit a one-sided fight) in a sandwich shop whereby the perp was intending to inflict harm.
wow, what a crazy story, very sorry to hear OP.

I agree w/ you gatorfast, if he had punched him once, the guy fell, hit his head and died because of that, I would agree w/ the verdict

but the fact he kept hitting him while the guy was out, tells me he was trying to do serious harm and that type of person should either live the rest of his life in jail or be sentenced to death, depending on the state laws
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      02-18-2013, 03:18 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspired
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Well I guess what you consider a rational human reaction and what I do are totally different. Per your quote above "3) the provocation would have caused the average person to act rashly"


Aside from you, I dont think anyone else on here would agree that the average person would resort to physically beating a person because that person laughed at him in some sandwich shop

And while yes, you are correct that this was not a bar fight, I think that example more closely models this situation than yours. In a bar fight you are intending to do harm (but not kill) and if you happen to kill the person it would likely be murder in the 2nd degree. This was a fight (albeit a one-sided fight) in a sandwich shop whereby the perp was intending to inflict harm.
You wouldn't flip out if you were being laughed at for dropping your sandwich? A normal person wouldn't be very happy if you were being laughed at for dropping a sandwich.

Where did I say I would resort to violence? I wouldn't resort to violence but I would most likely flip this person off if they laughed at me, which is considered acting rashly and heat of passion.
No actually, I wouldn't care if someone laughed. While perhaps there would be an instance of anger I think I would quickly realize I would likely do the same thing (laugh) if I saw this happen to someone else. I would most certainly not start a confrontation over it.

I did not say you personally would use violence in the same situation but you more or less insinuated it by deeming that this person acted rationally. You made the argument that manslaughter was the correct conviction based on this being a crime of passion. I disagreed stating that beating someone to death would not be the response of the average person.
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      02-18-2013, 07:10 PM   #56
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      02-18-2013, 10:42 PM   #57
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I just don't know why there is so much hate.

It takes so much more energy to hate on people than it does to just let them be.

The bottom line on this story is that the worst the victim did was be rude to someone. something that may not even be rude in his country. And all the perp did was have a rage attack that resulted in the death of the victim.

Any way you word it, any color light you put on it, any spin you want to add to it; the bottom line is that one person killed another for being rude.

Even punching someone in the face only once isn't a justified response to someone who was rude to you.
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      02-19-2013, 10:11 PM   #58
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That said, I am probably biased against dicks that troll in real life, I can imagine how annoying a 56yr old asian guy laughing in my face can be. This does not deserve his death, but you are overstating the facts by saying he killed him outright from such a little thing.
Wow. You've definitely sunk to a new low.

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      02-19-2013, 10:15 PM   #59
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wow, what a crazy story, very sorry to hear OP.

I agree w/ you gatorfast, if he had punched him once, the guy fell, hit his head and died because of that, I would agree w/ the verdict

but the fact he kept hitting him while the guy was out, tells me he was trying to do serious harm and that type of person should either live the rest of his life in jail or be sentenced to death, depending on the state laws

Thanks. I appreciate your response. (and gatorfast's)

One thing not mentioned in the article was that the attending physician at the emergency room said it looked like my niece's husband had been in an 80 mph car accident.

My family definitely doesn't agree with the jury and the ridiculous verdict.

Also, the attack didn't take place immediately after my niece's husband allegedly laughed at the assailant.

It took place many minutes afterward, so the "heat of passion" argument is invalid.

Last edited by MadDog; 02-19-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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      02-19-2013, 10:15 PM   #60
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^^ you got the wrong poster quoted there.
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      02-19-2013, 11:17 PM   #61
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I can only guess what's going to happen to his pastrami once he goes to jail
Just imagine he'll be someone bitch
That'll make you feel better
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      02-20-2013, 02:28 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDog View Post
Also, the attack didn't take place immediately after my niece's husband allegedly laughed at the assailant.

It took place many minutes afterward, so the "heat of passion" argument is invalid.


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Originally Posted by Inspired View Post
But a normal person WOULD flip out if I was being laughed at after I dropped my sandwich.
No, a normal person would not resort to lethal violence in response to being laughed at after dropping a sandwich. A normal person might resort to lethal violence in response to discovering his wife in bed with a stranger.

If you think these are equivalent, then that's what's wrong with the jury system - the average juror.


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That said, I am probably biased against dicks that troll in real life, I can imagine how annoying a 56yr old asian guy laughing in my face can be. This does not deserve his death, but you are overstating the facts by saying he killed him outright from such a little thing.
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      02-20-2013, 02:42 PM   #63
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      02-20-2013, 06:46 PM   #64
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No, a normal person would not resort to lethal violence in response to being laughed at after dropping a sandwich. A normal person might resort to lethal violence in response to discovering his wife in bed with a stranger.

If you think these are equivalent, then that's what's wrong with the jury system - the average juror.



Please reread my post before commenting. Where did I say a normal person would resort to violence? Flip out do not mean you will resort to violence BTW.

Why complain about the juror? Why not complain about the DA for seeking manslaughter vs murder? Why not complain about the justice system that clearly states what a manslaughter consists of?

Heat of passion that will help reduce the sentence to manslaughter vs second degree murder:
1) that the defendant was provoked YES
2) that the provocation caused the defendant to act rashly and under the influence of intense emotion, obscuring his judgment and reasoning YES
3) the provocation would have caused the average person to act rashly YES, IMO and the DA's opinion
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      02-20-2013, 10:17 PM   #65
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RatBoy!!

Long time no hear from. How you been?
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      02-21-2013, 06:47 PM   #66
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RatBoy!!

Long time no hear from. How you been?
Good, my man ...Yep, it's been a long time. My first time here in almost 2 years.

Hope all is well.
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