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      01-15-2013, 01:36 PM   #67
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Why>? Putting the cam in the block and actuating the valves with pushrods (through rockers) works really well. The main advantage is that, especially in a V engine, there's only one camshaft. Also, the camshaft drive is a lot shorter which gives better accuracy in timing. Chevrolet stuck with the pushrod engine because they also tend to be smaller. There's no camshaft up above and no cam sprocket. On a V engine, that makes it both lower, narrower and lighter.

Technology is NOT always an improvement..DOHC and SOHC have their advantages..but tried and true muscle cars still use pushrods for a reason.
Exactly.

The ability to generate torque at such a low RPM is amazing on the Vettes. The C6 Corvette LS3 felt like a rocket ship.
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      01-15-2013, 01:37 PM   #68
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That mustard interior is awesome! They really did a great job although now that someone mentioned the stalks on the column, I can't help but notice that they look super cheap. Those aside, I give it a strong A+ for execution (interior only). Outside is currently at a C-.
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      01-15-2013, 01:55 PM   #69
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What is dumb? that people have different opinions on what looks good..well duuh thanks Captain obvious.

Ofcourse its subjective...doesnt mean it cant be debated and in the OT almost anything goes

So fear not being labeled a fanboi.. go forth and criticize.
Maybe we're gonna debate how ugly the Lamborghini Miura is, next....
Go forth and criticize hahahaha now i sound just like you.
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      01-15-2013, 01:58 PM   #70
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I sort of like it.

Will add it to the list for test drives for next car in 3 or 4 years...

Have always liked the value for the performance in the Vettes.
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      01-15-2013, 03:14 PM   #71
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I generally do not like vettes, but this one I could live with. Prob wouldn't buy one but I can respect it and how cheap(inexspensive) they are.
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      01-15-2013, 03:33 PM   #72
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I actually HAVE had some seat time behind the wheel of a c6 Z06, a GT500 and an SRT-10.. Yes they are monstrously powerful. Yes they make a lot of noise. Would I own any of them? No. Also, dont get me wrong.. I'm not a bmw fanboy.. but a descerning car lover. I see and appreciate all kinds of cars. I was a huge viper GTS fan. It just looks amazing! I have a hard on for all of the 60's american pony cars.. and the brilliance of the new japanese all wheel drive powerhouses (subies, mitsu's etc)

Just recently I bought my 135i.. after test driving two dozen cars that were close in price and category. I'll tell you this, the mustang gt was ATROCIOUS. The gearbox was notchy, clunky and difficult (gf actually stopped and refused to continue driving it) the clutch is either IN or OUT.. and overall it felt like I was driving an oil tanker.. MASSIVE. Not to mention the terrible road feel and feedback. The ONLY thing I liked was the sound of the coyotes bark and well maybe the all glass roof... The exact same could be said for the camaros drivability. Unfortunately, I think it's even uglier and only redeeming quality was that the seat fit me better. So on to the G37 coupe... Which I dont fit in, has brutal vis and is the slowest of the group.. If you put the GT head to head with the 135i.. its pretty obvious which way you'll go and its a fair comparison. So that brings me to my next point. Lets compare apples to apples. Quit with this Yankee bullshit of trying to find a way to make the car a 'winner'

I know there are a bunch of muscle car fanobois on here.. and while I agree the corvette packs some punch.. I hated the feedback in the steering and clutch.. The car felt flimsy, I did not like the interior. I especially dont like the gaudy colour choices they've portrayed on the c7. I dont like how they are going for this 'dark knight' 'transformers' 'future-bulky-aggressive' look. I think its increasingly unappealing and awkward. But I am entitled to my opinion. I like cars that wont look dated when they come off warranty. I am a huge fan of that aesthetic timelessness. And you are right. That rear set of vette flags, looks like trash am firebird logo.. Are they copying ferrari now with similar headlights and shark nose of the 458 and the 599? If GM wants to play in the supercar market with the vette.. they need to build something that will honestly compete with an r8, 996, The italia, whatever lambo's latest offering is, The LFA and GT-R.. OR stick to the current formula and go after the db9, the M3 and M6, The latest AMG 2 door offering from merc. Oh what? it'll never happen!

Someone tried to compare Bmw's offerings in the same price category.. Thats like comparing apples to running shoes. Doesnt make sense. The corvette is built to be INEXPENSIVE PERFORMANCE, and it shows in many areas.

It was like seeing that stupid car and driver or was it motor trend? (regarless, they are both funded by auto manufacturers)cover.. where they pitted american muscle against a base 650i and then claimed to have spanked the germans. The american car is faster in a straight line and cheaper and therefore its better! Give me a fucking break!

Okay then.. lets put a ford raptor up against a base model toyota tundra.. hey look! the big three win again!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.. and mine is this, the new corvette is UGLY inside and out. Its akin to the vette's of the 70s! Just a big shouty awkward looking brute. Gone is the notion in my head that they will ever return to the beauty and style of the late 50's and early 60's C1's..
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      01-15-2013, 04:03 PM   #73
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It's not a muscle car. Even if you don't qualify it as a "sports car", it's MUCH closer to that than being a "muscle car".

As far as the Rustang comment goes, Rowdy, I put the GT head to head with my 335i and I can tell you even though the Rustang feels bigger and much softer, the ride is more compliant and it gives much more confidence near and at the limit. First, let's put the price difference away. There's a chasm between the two and they just aren't supposed to be compared in that respect, but we all know the Rustang gives you less in quality and refinement so whatever, consider it a (generous) wash. It's very neutral and communicative, and it's not just me who feels that way. The Rustang is a faster car that inspires more confidence from the driver. So yeah "if you put the GT head to head with the [3]35i" I guess I would also say it's obvious which way you'll go. I haven't looked back and have a shit eating permagrin all over my face on even the most simple of jaunts. The ONE thing I miss from the BMW are the rear doors (so I guess that would make it two things technically). Other than that, the seats are better (CLOTH Recaros), it has a REAL diff, it's more compliant and comfortable (Brembo package car as compared to ZSP on the 335) minus midcorner bumps of course, inspires more confidence at the limit, makes an intoxicating noise, and has already gone 10k without an unscheduled visit to the stealer (something my BMW wasn't able to accomplish in all its 75k miles). So yeah the Rustang ain't the choice fer you maybe, but I don't think it's as cut-and-dry as you think it is for most. A lot of the points are highly subjective and that's going to lead to differing opinions. And we all know what happens when we have different opinions on the Internet.... IMPOSSIBRU!

But yeah that Vette is in a whole different category. It's supposed to go batshit fast on a budget and it does that in spades. Kudos to GM on the redesign and addressing their biggest shortcoming in the car.
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      01-15-2013, 04:23 PM   #74
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they need to build something that will honestly compete with an r8, 996, The italia, whatever lambo's latest offering is, The LFA and GT-R.. OR stick to the current formula and go after the db9, the M3 and M6, The latest AMG 2 door offering from merc.
Compete in what way? Your post is confusing.
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      01-15-2013, 04:51 PM   #75
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Yes, Audi A3. Mind you not many auto interiors can stand up to Audi's interior aesthetic design, material choice and tactile feel.

Not sure what year this one is....





2014 Sport line interior....



I don't expect GM to flick a switch and make interiors on par with the best of the business. What gets me is they debut the all new corvette and the buttons are oversized, weird shaped and seem to be arbitrarily placed. But what puts me over the top is the turn signal stalks on the steering column. I swear that is the SAME fricking stalk that was on my girlfriends 1984 camaro and also makes appearances in 1992 camaro, chevy blazer, GMC pick ups, etc....

I mean really, you can't redesign a better looking, feeling, functioning turn signal stalk in 30 years?!?!?
That's nice but how about the cheap and heavy frames/chassis found on the $70k german pigs?

I guess an expensive Aluminum alloy chassis is out of question on a $75k M3.

First to 2nd shift near redline with the M3's MT is terrible.

Sorry, we're only discussing fit and finish not what's important on a sports car.

Back on topic. What's more hideous, the F30 & 1 series hideous side mirrors that look like dumbo's ears or the C7 turn signal stalk?
And what's up with the eighties style gear shifter found on 6spd M3's? The DCT's ones are nice though. For Pete's sake BMW can't redesign a short better lookin shifter in 20 something years?
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      01-15-2013, 06:57 PM   #76
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ever wonder how a front-engine car has such a low hood profile? ohv
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      01-15-2013, 08:34 PM   #77
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That's nice but how about the cheap and heavy frames/chassis found on the $70k german pigs?

I guess an expensive Aluminum alloy chassis is out of question on a $75k M3.

First to 2nd shift near redline with the M3's MT is terrible.

Sorry, we're only discussing fit and finish not what's important on a sports car.

Back on topic. What's more hideous, the F30 & 1 series hideous side mirrors that look like dumbo's ears or the C7 turn signal stalk?
And what's up with the eighties style gear shifter found on 6spd M3's? The DCT's ones are nice though. For Pete's sake BMW can't redesign a short better lookin shifter in 20 something years?
The topic was the corvette's aesthetics. Which is what i was talking about.

I can't stand the way Audis drive; not only are they overweight but they are generally underpowered and handle for shit. But the interiors are top rate.

Too many variables go into what makes up the feel of a car to say that the M3's chassis is subpar. Yes, i wish it was lighter; the car is a pig at 3700#s.

I have no problem with 1st to 2nd shifts around redline or otherwise. User error maybe?

I'm not sure why you are trying to imply that i said fit and finish are all that is important in a car, sports or otherwise.

The turn signal stalk.

I don't know, one of the first mods to every M3 i've had was a short shifter and knob.


I don't know what you guys are all upity about? I said something about the aesthetic and tactile feel for the 20 year old turn signal stalk and everyone freaks out. I actually like many other aspects of the vehicle now that i've seen it. I really don't know what you're out to prove other than you value your own opinion over other opinions.
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      01-15-2013, 10:58 PM   #78
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The topic was the corvette's aesthetics. Which is what i was talking about.

I can't stand the way Audis drive; not only are they overweight but they are generally underpowered and handle for shit. But the interiors are top rate.

Too many variables go into what makes up the feel of a car to say that the M3's chassis is subpar. Yes, i wish it was lighter; the car is a pig at 3700#s.

I have no problem with 1st to 2nd shifts around redline or otherwise. User error maybe?

I'm not sure why you are trying to imply that i said fit and finish are all that is important in a car, sports or otherwise.

The turn signal stalk.

I don't know, one of the first mods to every M3 i've had was a short shifter and knob.


I don't know what you guys are all upity about? I said something about the aesthetic and tactile feel for the 20 year old turn signal stalk and everyone freaks out. I actually like many other aspects of the vehicle now that i've seen it. I really don't know what you're out to prove other than you value your own opinion over other opinions.
You're the one who threw a bitch fit over the turn signal stalk.
You went on and on, how in 30 years they couldnt design a better lookin turn signal stalk that also feels good to the touch.
The point i tried to make is no car is perfect, including the M3.
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      01-15-2013, 11:22 PM   #79
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And this is the new Vette, Mmmm which one looks better?
OP likes the F30 but thinks this is ugly. Hahahaha
The interior of the Corvette looks as cheap as a plastic water bottle. But this is my opinion as far as the F30 interior I think it's a major step forward. We disagree on design but the fact is the Corvette is a fast machine made of paper.
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      01-16-2013, 01:04 AM   #80
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I swear that is the SAME fricking stalk that was on my girlfriends 1984 camaro and also makes appearances in 1992 camaro, chevy blazer, GMC pick ups, etc....

I mean really, you can't redesign a better looking, feeling, functioning turn signal stalk in 30 years?!?!?
O....M.....G..... what a bitch fit. I'm assuming by bitch fit you mean an opinion that differs from yours.
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You're the one who threw a bitch fit over the turn signal stalk.
You went on and on, how in 30 years they couldnt design a better lookin turn signal stalk that also feels good to the touch.
The point i tried to make is no car is perfect, including the M3.
And you're so self absorbed and all knowing that you think it's your duty to "attempt" to make a point that just about everyone who has driven an automobile already knows. Your ignorant closed mind assumes that because i said something negative about a car other than the one i own means i think mine is the gift to everything automotive. I can even let you slide on that since BMW owners haven't laid down the best reputations over the years. But my negative comment, which is impossible for anyone to argue, is about a part that represents about .0001% of the entire vehicle. Which by the way i didn't comment on. Then you have the balls to call out the single comment in this thread that is undeniable as a bitch fit. Ironic that you call my comment a bitch fit when your comments are just like a woman's since you fail to comprehend what you read and fly off on tangents which are unrelated to the conversation and oh yeah that other little female characteristic, what was that, how it's impossible for you to be wrong and anyone who thinks different than you are not only wrong but but a complete idiot.

I even praised other cars including american manufactured interiors in this thread while at the same time stating that certain aspects of my car are undesirable. So i agree with you and it's no good, I disagree with you and it's no good. Yet another female characteristic. It's a little odd seeing that the majority of threads you start are asking for the opinions of others.

In case you didn't pick up on it, i'm well aware that no car is perfect, including the corvette. I don't need your help, thanks though.
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      01-16-2013, 02:41 AM   #81
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It is not a sports car or a grand touring machine either. Its been purposely placed in it's own little special category that nothing else seems to fit, and I understand why GM has done that. But thats why I'm saying, the second anyone tries to compare it to any of the more upscale sports, super or GT cars.. that it really doesnt compare to anything! Its just not in the same sphere.. regardless of the price. Dont agree? Then look at how many vettes sell outside of North America

I think again, you're one who's comparing apples to nikes.. fair enough.. but lets look more closely. Not sure why you chose to compare a four door sedan to a 2 door pony car..

The 4 door 335i and the 2 door and much more svelte 135i are also drastically different beasts. Lets look at some facts (I LIKE the look of the current stang mind you and I'm a huge 65-66 fan!) But it drove like a can of smashed arseholes in MY opinion. Sure you might disagree.. but here.. lets look at the comparison and specs.. straight from the manufacturer..
The mustang weighs in at just shy of 3700lbs (base, stick, no sunroof or AC) the 135.. 3200lbs. The mustang makes a stellar 420hp and 390ft/lb torque (when run on premium +92 octane fuel, down to 402 otherwise)from it's 5.0L to the bmws 300/300 out of a 3.0L six. The stang is only just a touch longer with a wheelbase of 107in to the bmws 105. they are both 4 seat, 2 door coupes. They both come with either 6spd manuals or Automatics, the bmw gets 20/28 city/highway, the mustang slugs to 15/25. Mustang runs the 1/4 in 13.4, identical to whats listed for the 135i! hmmm.. now.. that brembo brake package you mentioned is not standard($2200 option!), nor are many of the other go fast goodies that help it accelerate, handle and brake harder.. Base vs base.. we're looking at close prices too. Here in canuck land.. you're look at 41,943 out the door for a BASE GT.. and the 135i at 42,706.. Hmmmmm..

I wanted to love the mustang.. I really did.. but the 1'er just seemed to be the better alternative for me. Yes.. the 135i NEEDS a better diff.. and the mustang NEEDS a proper rear suspension. Point for point right I think its a much better comparison than say a z06 to an M6.. which was my point initially. Lets compare vehicles that are in similar categories!

I still stand behind my opinion that the vette is ugly.


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It's not a muscle car. Even if you don't qualify it as a "sports car", it's MUCH closer to that than being a "muscle car".

As far as the Rustang comment goes, Rowdy, I put the GT head to head with my 335i and I can tell you even though the Rustang feels bigger and much softer, the ride is more compliant and it gives much more confidence near and at the limit. First, let's put the price difference away. There's a chasm between the two and they just aren't supposed to be compared in that respect, but we all know the Rustang gives you less in quality and refinement so whatever, consider it a (generous) wash. It's very neutral and communicative, and it's not just me who feels that way. The Rustang is a faster car that inspires more confidence from the driver. So yeah "if you put the GT head to head with the [3]35i" I guess I would also say it's obvious which way you'll go. I haven't looked back and have a shit eating permagrin all over my face on even the most simple of jaunts. The ONE thing I miss from the BMW are the rear doors (so I guess that would make it two things technically). Other than that, the seats are better (CLOTH Recaros), it has a REAL diff, it's more compliant and comfortable (Brembo package car as compared to ZSP on the 335) minus midcorner bumps of course, inspires more confidence at the limit, makes an intoxicating noise, and has already gone 10k without an unscheduled visit to the stealer (something my BMW wasn't able to accomplish in all its 75k miles). So yeah the Rustang ain't the choice fer you maybe, but I don't think it's as cut-and-dry as you think it is for most. A lot of the points are highly subjective and that's going to lead to differing opinions. And we all know what happens when we have different opinions on the Internet.... IMPOSSIBRU!

But yeah that Vette is in a whole different category. It's supposed to go batshit fast on a budget and it does that in spades. Kudos to GM on the redesign and addressing their biggest shortcoming in the car.
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      01-16-2013, 06:43 AM   #82
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The interior of the Corvette looks as cheap as a plastic water bottle. But this is my opinion as far as the F30 interior I think it's a major step forward. We disagree on design but the fact is the Corvette is a fast machine made of paper.
The F30 is the ugliest 3 series ever with cheap looking wheels thar look like they're 13's on it. The side mirrors look hideous, the dashboard looks like it came straight from a early 2000's Buick.
I guess the F30 owners convinced themselves they got a good lookin car,the exposed grills also look goofy.
If you want a car that looks expensive get the Caddy,Lexus,Audi etc.
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      01-16-2013, 07:01 AM   #83
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It is not a sports car or a grand touring machine either. Its been purposely placed in it's own little special category that nothing else seems to fit, and I understand why GM has done that. But thats why I'm saying, the second anyone tries to compare it to any of the more upscale sports, super or GT cars.. that it really doesnt compare to anything! Its just not in the same sphere.. regardless of the price. Dont agree? Then look at how many vettes sell outside of North America

I think again, you're one who's comparing apples to nikes.. fair enough.. but lets look more closely. Not sure why you chose to compare a four door sedan to a 2 door pony car..

The 4 door 335i and the 2 door and much more svelte 135i are also dastically different beasts. Lets look at some facts (I LIKE the look of the current stang mind you and I'm a huge 65-66 fan!) But it drove like a can of smashed arseholes in MY opinion. Sure you might disagree.. but here.. lets look at the comparison and specs.. straight from the manufacturer..
The mustang weighs in at just shy of 3700lbs (base, stick, no sunroof or AC) the 135.. 3200lbs. The mustang makes a stellar 420hp and 390ft/lb torque (when run on premium +92 octane fuel, down to 402 otherwise)from it's 5.0L to the bmws 300/300 out of a 3.0L six. The stang is only just a touch longer with a wheelbase of 107in to the bmws 105. they are both 4 seat, 2 door coupes. They both come with either 6spd manuals or Automatics, the bmw gets 20/28 city/highway, the mustang slugs to 15/25. Mustang runs the 1/4 in 13.4, identical to whats listed for the 135i! hmmm.. now.. that brembo brake package you mentioned is not standard($2200 option!), nor are many of the other go fast goodies that help it accelerate, handle and brake harder.. Base vs base.. we're looking at close prices too. Here in canuck land.. you're look at 41,943 out the door for a BASE GT.. and the 135i at 42,706.. Hmmmmm..

I wanted to love the mustang.. I really did.. but the 1'er just seemed to be the better alternative for me. Yes.. the 135i NEEDS a better diff.. and the mustang NEEDS a proper rear suspension. Point for point right I think its a much better comparison than say a z06 to an M6.. which was my point initially. Lets compare vehicles that are in similar categories!

I still stand behind my opinion that the vette is ugly.
The new Vette looks fine, it's the 1 series that's UGLY. Most online car sites referred to the new Vette's pics as car porn.
When the 1 series was introduce the universal consensus was and is that it's Ugly. Although it doesn't look as ugly to me as it first did.
You want a good lookin BMW get the porky F10, new 6 series, E92 M3 etc. Those X3's are pretty ugly too with cheap interiors like the 1 series.
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      01-16-2013, 10:29 AM   #84
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Not sure why you chose to compare a four door sedan to a 2 door pony car..
Because it's the closest I could do. I've had plenty of seat time in a 6MT 135 and it's very similar. Feels more chuckable but plows more at the limit.... Otherwise, there's not a whole crap load of difference in driving dynamics between the 1er and the 3er. But if you'd like me to instead use the 1er as a basis for my comparison, it would fare worse due to the worse understeer.

I used the 335 as a basis for my comparison because I felt I was more qualified to do so than comparing it to a 135 and they share a ton of components and characteristics. The 135 I've driven plenty of times, but nowhere near the 75k I did in the 335.

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(base, stick, no sunroof or AC)
You guys don't get AC on the Mustang GT in Canadia? Dayum that's crazy. I didn't know they sold those cars without it anymore. Even the BOSS LS still has it in there despite its intentions.

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Mustang runs the 1/4 in 13.4
Yeah if James May is driving it maybe.

I can't believe you guys have to pay so much for the Mustang up there. I don't care to compare base 135i to base GT though, I wouldn't get either of those. But that's just me.
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      01-16-2013, 10:56 AM   #85
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I want to see what Top Gear says about this car.
Yeah it looks good from the outside.
But under that skin, it's an old engine and old tech and the cockpit looks....questionable at best.
The problem with GM isn't that their engineers are stuck in the 70's and think push rods are "cool" and leaf springs are "hot"
What their problem is that they have their nuts trapped in a vice.
On one side you have “design” by committee….and who do you think makes up this committee? Corn feed PBR drinking middle aged men of Ohio!
On the other side you have the very well paid very well armed accountants of GM.
So between those two, how can they make a truly amazing car? That has the interior of say an Audi, an engine that sings like an I6 of the BMW and a fit and finish of the body of a Lambo and a look of a Ferrari?

Who will buy this car? Well middle aged guys with hair transplants and rocking ginny t shirts and who are prone to using oliv oil for hair jell and ending every sentence with “over here” or “yo”
Or Indian / Pakistani engineers….no clue why they love Vets but….well why do Persians love white BMWs and Mercs?
The world will never know!
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      01-16-2013, 11:14 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
I want to see what Top Gear says about this car.
Me too but purely for entertainment purposes. I can't believe people take what Jezza says seriously when it comes to car reviews, especially when it's an American car being tested....

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Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
So between those two, how can they make a truly amazing car? That has the interior of say an Audi, an engine that sings like an I6 of the BMW and a fit and finish of the body of a Lambo and a look of a Ferrari?
Cost.
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      01-16-2013, 11:27 AM   #87
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I personally love the new front. But rear is far beyond disgusting.
And to people who complain about how plasticky and fit and finish is, you are looking at $40-50k sports car that looks and actually goes fast.
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      01-16-2013, 12:09 PM   #88
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Ah dude for $50k just buy an 1M...or was it the M1...either way...get that thing!
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