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      12-21-2012, 11:36 AM   #1
Tsuyoi
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Chinese manufactured BMWs

Any Chinese nationals on here have any experience with ordering a Chinese manufactured BMW? From what I can find online, all the review sites say they are indistinguishable from German/SA built ones, but I was wondering if anyone had first hand experience.

My parents are retiring to China next year, and are looking for a good import SUV, but taxes on import cars there means that any basic (40k US) SUV is going to cost 100k US or more there. However, the Chinese manufactured x3/x5 is more like 60-70kUS, due to the lack of import taxes.
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      01-20-2013, 01:15 AM   #2
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Are you talking about knockoffs? Lol if so they are VERY distinguishable from OEM german ones.


Check out this wannabe x5: http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/12/19/bm...nese-x5-clone/
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      01-20-2013, 04:12 AM   #3
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Okay let's hope that the bmw's made in china never leaves china. lol
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      01-20-2013, 08:56 AM   #4
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I think all BMWs are expensive in China, because they have to relate to each other price-wise. I believe they just produce locally when there is a sounds business case for it and keep most of the tax benefits to themselves. This is because you cannot suddenly have a 3-series which is less expensive than a 1-series, even the 3-series is locally produced and the 1-series is imported. On the other hand, the imported coupe version of the 3-series is actually significantly more expensive than the locally produced sedan. I do not think this is usually the case outside China? But I think this is the reason why the coupe is so extremely rare in China compared to the sedan.

For SUVs I believe only the X1 is locally produced. But I did not go the factories to check and make sure... Also I do not have any first hand experience with the locally produced models. One of my friends has two BMWs and one of them is locally produced, but it is the previous-gen 5-series, and things may have changed.

I believe it used to be so that the Chinese locally produced models featured the previous generation engine specs. So a 30i would have 231hp instead of 258hp. But this does not seem to be the case any longer.

Anyway, most of the local people have no way of knowing about the quality difference, and I would not listen too much to any anecdotes from non-professionals. Anyway, if you find any hard data on this I am interested in knowing more as well.
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      01-20-2013, 03:05 PM   #5
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Thanks Asbjorn. I think the X3 and X5 are also produced at the plants in China now. I remember my cousin in China telling me the ones locally assembled were much cheaper, will ask him again and see if I can figure it out.
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      01-30-2013, 03:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
Thanks Asbjorn. I think the X3 and X5 are also produced at the plants in China now. I remember my cousin in China telling me the ones locally assembled were much cheaper, will ask him again and see if I can figure it out.
My friend did some more research for me and found this.

国产宝马虽然叫“国产”但是其实应该叫“国装”更为贴切,除了与中国土地接触的四个轮胎是中国本地生产外, 其它所有配件几乎都是进口的,在中国采用宝马技术组装起来,这也是国外厂商投资中国最初时的一般模式。因此 从驾驶性能上和动力配置上这两款车区别并不太大,无非一个是在国外组装好卖到中国,一个在中国组装就在中国 销售。但是国产宝马毕竟投产不久,其组装经验肯定还不成熟,因此综合比较起来肯定是进口的宝马要占优势,例 如高速行驶时国产宝马的车内噪音要大于进口的,诸如此类由于组装技术不成熟所引起的车辆缺点是国产宝马相比 进口宝马的劣势

What it basically says is that most parts used on locally produced BMWs are actually imported. Just to give one example, the heart of the car, the ECU will have been produced by Siemens, and will never have been produced locally by BMW anywhere.

This means that if there is a quality difference, it is caused by different levels of technology, experience and quality control during the assembly processes...

Ok, so now we are still confused, but at least in a different way.
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Little known facts about BMW: 1) The N54 is still in production and used in the current Z4 35i and 35is. 2) In a Z4 you can get sport+ steering combined with normal suspension etc by selecting DSC=off. 3) All Z4s with 19" wheels are still only offered with the worst performing OEM tires ever sold with a DCT equipped BMW (Potenza RE 050 RFT).
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      01-30-2013, 03:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjørn View Post
My friend did some more research for me and found this.

国产宝马虽然叫“国产”但是其实应该叫“国装”更为贴切,除了与中国土地接触的四个轮胎是中国本地生产外, 其它所有配件几乎都是进口的,在中国采用宝马技术组装起来,这也是国外厂商投资中国最初时的一般模式。因此 从驾驶性能上和动力配置上这两款车区别并不太大,无非一个是在国外组装好卖到中国,一个在中国组装就在中国 销售。但是国产宝马毕竟投产不久,其组装经验肯定还不成熟,因此综合比较起来肯定是进口的宝马要占优势,例 如高速行驶时国产宝马的车内噪音要大于进口的,诸如此类由于组装技术不成熟所引起的车辆缺点是国产宝马相比 进口宝马的劣势

What it basically says is that most parts used on locally produced BMWs are actually imported. Just to give one example, the heart of the car, the ECU will have been produced by Siemens, and will never have been produced locally by BMW anywhere.

This means that if there is a quality difference, it is caused by different levels of technology, experience and quality control during the assembly processes...

Ok, so now we are still confused, but at least in a different way.
Suo Yi... It is (rather) safe to say that BMW assembled by Mr Xi will be a lesser quality than what Herr Gunther or Mr. Bob had assembled.. am I correct so far?
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      01-30-2013, 04:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmaleke View Post
Suo Yi... It is (rather) safe to say that BMW assembled by Mr Xi will be a lesser quality than what Herr Gunther or Mr. Bob had assembled.. am I correct so far?
Well, I am confident BMW is able to attract some of the best workers in China. But nothing beats experience and passion, and China is still young as a market, designer and producer of automobiles. Just because China makes excellent Apple products, its not necessarily the same with cars.

Dan shi... but lets not forget that things do not stand still in China. Far from it. My local dealer sells around 200 BMWs every month, and most of them are of course locally produced. And last time I checked, China had become the biggest car market in the world. So its not like they havent had no chance to practice recently... and I am sure they have also learned alot from any early warranty-covered repairs that they have had to do.

So all in all, I would love to see some real hard quality performance numbers before drawing any final conclusions.
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Little known facts about BMW: 1) The N54 is still in production and used in the current Z4 35i and 35is. 2) In a Z4 you can get sport+ steering combined with normal suspension etc by selecting DSC=off. 3) All Z4s with 19" wheels are still only offered with the worst performing OEM tires ever sold with a DCT equipped BMW (Potenza RE 050 RFT).
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      01-30-2013, 06:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmaleke View Post
Suo Yi... It is (rather) safe to say that BMW assembled by Mr Xi will be a lesser quality than what Herr Gunther or Mr. Bob had assembled.. am I correct so far?
Even if the BMW is build at Leipzig, Regensburg or München, there is a big chance that Mr. Öztürk, Mr. Stanislavic , Mr. Ngongo or even a Mr. Chang build it . There is a mass of Turkish People working for BMW for Decades (for Example) and BMW got allways good Quality (its the same at Mercedes, Porsche or any German Brand).

So, heal the world, make it a better Place!
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      01-30-2013, 07:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by comar1979 View Post
Even if the BMW is build at Leipzig, Regensburg or München, there is a big chance that Mr. Öztürk, Mr. Stanislavic , Mr. Ngongo or even a Mr. Chang build it . There is a mass of Turkish People working for BMW for Decades (for Example) and BMW got allways good Quality (its the same at Mercedes, Porsche or any German Brand).

So, heal the world, make it a better Place!
True and I agree on what you said but I'm just highlighting a common misconception at least in China (to the best of my knowledge) and in Indonesia; for instance, here in Indonesia there's still this stigma that a BMW built by Mr. Cecep, Mr. Asep, or Mr. Endang in BMW's Sunter assembly plant will have a lesser quality than an imported one.. May be in the past, yes, but not anymore...

But here's an interesting fact, a couple of stealerships here in Jakarta area does indicated that somehow the imported BMWs do have lesser percentange of recall works or failures compared with locally assembled vehicles
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      01-30-2013, 01:10 PM   #11
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I've come across several articles indicating that China is the biggest (or second biggest) auto manufacturing country in the world right now. Not only do they manufacture cars from Chinese companies they also manufacturer BMWs, Mercedes, Toyotas etc etc.

The thing is most if not all BMWs, Toyotas etc manufactured in China are for consumption in China...they are not exported.

And let's be realistic "Made in China" goods today are not the same as "Made in China" goods from 10 years ago. Just look at your iPhones.

That being said if i am buying a "luxury" item i want it to be made in Italy or Germany or Japan etc But that is more for the "cache" of having the item made there and not because of the actual quality (ok partially because of the actual quality).
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