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      11-07-2012, 08:38 PM   #23
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Hey guess what.... Women vote, legal latino's and latina's vote, gay people vote, and yes black people vote. They are people of the united states buddy. Obama fights for those who have rights too! Who votes for Rommey??? Rich whites and raciest... enough said.
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      11-07-2012, 08:40 PM   #24
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sadly this is now a losing battle.

When 51% of the people expect a handout in some form by the government or are relying on the government for their income, that 51% will vote for candidates promising increased government spending.

The government does not produce or create anything. They get their funding through taxing those that work in the private sector. This money is largely funneled to those that do not work or those that rely on the government for income.

There will be a point when those that work become incentivized to either stop working for the private sector and work for the government, stop working in America and move abroad, or stop working entirely and accept a handout from the government. As more and more producers choose one of these decisions, our GDP from the private sector will continue to decline.

There will reach a point at which this dependency will no longer be sustainable. This will be a point at which chaos ensues.

The decline has only begun. We are currently at a ratio of approx. 51% takers and 49% producers. The country will not fall off the "cliff" in only 4 years but it will continue to follow down the path of insolvency at an exponential rate.

Again, once you pass the 51% mark for those that rely on government for sustenance, it is too late to turn back. The 51% will continue to vote for more and more government involvement as this will correlate to more and more handouts.

We have reached this 51% mark. Sadly I do not know how this can be reversed.
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      11-07-2012, 08:41 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dominick View Post
Hey guess what.... Women vote, legal latino's and latina's vote, gay people vote, and yes black people vote. They are people of the united states buddy. Obama fights for those who have rights too! Who votes for Rommey??? Rich whites and raciest... enough said.
why does racism always have to be apart of this....there are many successful minorities within the republican party. And I as a conservative would love to welcome as many minorities into my party as possible. I truly feel that conservatism at its core is good for people of all backgrounds.

if 96% of any race votes for a candidate, don't you think that is real racism?

And we have had multiple women run for office. It typically ends in them being mocked and ridiculed. These women are not dumb but are portrayed as idiots by the media. The democrats want to champion the woman vote but when a conservative woman seeks power she is quickly dismissed.

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      11-07-2012, 08:46 PM   #26
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why does racism always have to be apart of this....there are many successful minorities within the republican party. And I as a conservative would love to welcome as many minorities into my party as possible. I truly feel that conservatism at its core is good for people of all backgrounds.

if 96% of any race votes for a candidate, don't you think that is real racism?
No
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      11-07-2012, 08:49 PM   #27
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What did rommey stand for on all these issues??? immagrition, women's rights, poor people already on welfare. You expect these citizens to pick rommy? Republicans need to realize where most people stand if they ever wish to get elected.
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      11-07-2012, 09:08 PM   #28
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I love these threads... everyone that doesn't agree is sent to the corner of the party stereotypes.

Democrats are all beggars wanting more free stuff, and Republicans are all rich white guys sitting on their mountains of cash wanting to keep the poor man down.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

King's dream hasn't come true.

Our Nation hasn't embraced Obama's mixed racial background at all. He is a true example of what a melting pot America is, but to everyone that talks about him he is a black man... I don't get it

If you don't think a lot of people voted for Obama because of his skin color and not political stance, I wouldn't agree. The same type deal for Republicans... People have all sorts of reasons for their choices.

The great thing is we have those choices to make, and we are a great group of people as a whole.
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      11-07-2012, 09:21 PM   #29
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I love these threads... everyone that doesn't agree is sent to the corner of the party stereotypes.

Democrats are all beggars wanting more free stuff, and Republicans are all rich white guys sitting on their mountains of cash wanting to keep the poor man down.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

King's dream hasn't come true.

Our Nation hasn't embraced Obama's mixed racial background at all. He is a true example of what a melting pot America is, but to everyone that talks about him he is a black man... I don't get it

If you don't think a lot of people voted for Obama because of his skin color and not political stance, I wouldn't agree. The same type deal for Republicans... People have all sorts of reasons for their choices.

The great thing is we have those choices to make, and we are a great group of people as a whole.
Racism is alive and well. Look up the google vid of little brandon telling a reporter that romney would send blacks to "go pick crops" if he was elected. Obviously taught this by his approving father who was in the background listening to him.

Here is another example showing that racism is as real today as when MLK was alive: http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/11/...-as-state-rep/

In this story an 8 time felon is elected to office. Thats right.....8 TIME FELON!!! His most recent felony was in 2004. He has no past experience yet was elected to office. Anyone who doubts that his skin color played a role is delusional.
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      11-07-2012, 09:59 PM   #30
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did these consevertive women win? no, why? Cause their veiws are not shared by the majority of the public. I applaud you for still voicing your opinons on this election but it's over. live with it. Obama!!!!!
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      11-07-2012, 10:19 PM   #31
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As I drove home last night, fireworks started going off in my neighborhood, and when I rolled down the windows, I heard people cheering all around me.

That's when I knew Obama had won the election.
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      11-08-2012, 12:37 AM   #32
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Libtards will rip what they sow.
BTW I'm a minority and always preferred Democrats, but this bs has to end.
More I think about it more Republican i become. I hope we won't be Greece II, God help us all.
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      11-08-2012, 01:10 AM   #33
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Hey guess what.... Women vote, legal latino's and latina's vote, gay people vote, and yes black people vote. They are people of the united states buddy. Obama fights for those who have rights too! Who votes for Rommey??? Rich whites and raciest... enough said.
Wait is this serious???? Does anyone remember 2008 when they were interviewing blacks that were voting for Obama asking them about why its the first time their voting in their lives and why they're voting for Obama? The answer was almost always "because he is black". That is pretty damn racist. I'm pretty sure black people are more racist than white people. Jesse Jackson and the likes of him are some of the most hateful and racist people that have ever lived.
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      11-08-2012, 03:22 AM   #34
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No
You're a moron if you honestly think that isn't racist. You're probably like one of those people from my liberal hive college who think only white people are racist.
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      11-08-2012, 05:11 AM   #35
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"liberal hive college"
Good one, hadn't hear that before.
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      11-08-2012, 09:07 AM   #36
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The uneducated are out in full force it seems...
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      11-08-2012, 09:29 AM   #37
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I've read a lot of crap in this thread about social issues and how one candidate targets a certain demographic while another does the opposite. Both are politicians, both have similar tactics. Romney did a great job at attracting those he was aiming at attracting but unfortunately he received a large slice of a continuous growing pie and it clearly was not enough.

This election was not about immigration and sure as hell not about social rights!!! This election was about economic policy. People voted based upon personal incentives such as what they on an individual basis have received. Welfare, food stamps, union payoffs etc...

I heard a story the other day about a professor that was teaching a class about socialism in a "liberal hive college" (great quote by the way). Those in his class were arguing that it is a personal duty to help those that are needy and not as successful as the rest. He decided to treat his class the same way. When the first exam came around, he told them that everybody will be getting the same grade. Some studied and some did not. Average grade was a B so therefore, everybody received a B. This infuriated those who worked hard and allowed those who did not study to enjoy the class without having to do their part. The second exam came around and less people studied hard and the average grade was a C+. At the conclusion of the semester, the whole class had an F.

If I were a student who studied hard in this class, I would demand for the professor to be replaced. If I was a student who did not care and still received an average grade, I would do what I could to keep the professor.

Same general trend is happening in America as we speak.

Welcome to the end of the first exam everyone, it's only going to get more interesting from here on out. I pray that this president can do what he can to turn this country around but I feel that his tactics are only going to be a band-aid on a broken bone and many are blind to this progression.

Last edited by pgviper; 11-08-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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      11-08-2012, 10:16 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
I've read a lot of crap in this thread about social issues and how one candidate targets a certain demographic while another does the opposite. Both are politicians, both have similar tactics. Romney did a great job at attracting those he was aiming at attracting but unfortunately he received a large slice of a continuous growing pie and it clearly was not enough.

This election was not about immigration and sure as hell not about social rights!!! This election was about economic policy. People voted based upon personal incentives such as what they on an individual basis have received. Welfare, food stamps, union payoffs etc...

I heard a story the other day about a professor that was teaching a class about socialism in a "liberal hive college" (great quote by the way). Those in his class were arguing that it is a personal duty to help those that are needy and not as successful as the rest. He decided to treat his class the same way. When the first exam came around, he told them that everybody will be getting the same grade. Some studied and some did not. Average grade was a B so therefore, everybody received a B. This infuriated those who worked hard and made those who did not enjoy this class without having to work at it. The second exam came around and less people studied hard and the average grade was a C+. At the conclusion of the semester, the whole class had an F.

If I were a student who studied hard in this class, I would demand for the professor to be replaced. If I was a student who did not care and still received an average grade, I would do what I could to keep the professor.

Same general trend is happening in America as we speak.

Welcome to the end of the first exam everyone, it's only going to get more interesting from here on out. I pray that this president can do what he can to turn this country around but I feel that his tactics are only going to be a band-aid on a broken bone and many are blind to this progression.
excellent statement.
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      11-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
I've read a lot of crap in this thread about social issues and how one candidate targets a certain demographic while another does the opposite. Both are politicians, both have similar tactics. Romney did a great job at attracting those he was aiming at attracting but unfortunately he received a large slice of a continuous growing pie and it clearly was not enough.

This election was not about immigration and sure as hell not about social rights!!! This election was about economic policy. People voted based upon personal incentives such as what they on an individual basis have received. Welfare, food stamps, union payoffs etc...

I heard a story the other day about a professor that was teaching a class about socialism in a "liberal hive college" (great quote by the way). Those in his class were arguing that it is a personal duty to help those that are needy and not as successful as the rest. He decided to treat his class the same way. When the first exam came around, he told them that everybody will be getting the same grade. Some studied and some did not. Average grade was a B so therefore, everybody received a B. This infuriated those who worked hard and allowed those who did not study to enjoy the class without having to do their part. The second exam came around and less people studied hard and the average grade was a C+. At the conclusion of the semester, the whole class had an F.

If I were a student who studied hard in this class, I would demand for the professor to be replaced. If I was a student who did not care and still received an average grade, I would do what I could to keep the professor.

Same general trend is happening in America as we speak.

Welcome to the end of the first exam everyone, it's only going to get more interesting from here on out. I pray that this president can do what he can to turn this country around but I feel that his tactics are only going to be a band-aid on a broken bone and many are blind to this progression.
Nice little annecdote but it just doesn't apply. You can choose to ignore what's in front of your face if you like, but prepare yourself for continued misplaced anger and frustration. I understand your desire to characterize this election as being about those who want to work for stuff and those who just want free stuff. That is basically what your annecdote implies. It's yet another interpretation of Romney's 47 per cent speach which he didn't intend for public consumption. It's an easy and simplistic concept which makes it popular and infectious among those on the right. It's a very pessimistic view of this country's citizenry and it's completely wrong. The American dream is very much alive and well among all citizens of this country and well represented in all it's diversity.

I agree this electoin was not about immigration or social issues, per se. It was about demographics. Specifically it was about the changing demographics of the U.S and the ability and strategy of both campaigns to recognize and appeal to those changing demographics. The Obama campaign was better at it than the Romney campaign. In fact that's an understatement. Simply put the Obama campaign recognized and appealed to growing demographic groups such as minorities and women and the Romney campaign alienated them. Ultimately that's what cost them the election. The Republican party needs to recognize this change in demographics and adapt to it. Otherwise they will continue to shrink their base and will be doomed to irelevence as a political party and brand.
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      11-08-2012, 11:31 AM   #40
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BKsBimmer,

Regarding your fist paragraph:
Have you walked to every person in the United States and asked them why they are motivated? Have you asked every person in the United States if they receive aid from the goverment? Have you looked at every person receiving aid and made an unprejudiced decision on whether they should or should not be receiving aid?

NO YOU HAVE NOT and polls are not accurate regarding my questions because everyone I know, including myself has never been asked any of these questions.

So therefore I am not 100% wrong nor am I 100% right AND you are not 100% wrong and not 100% right. Do not sit here and tell me that my opinion is wrong because you FEEL that the American Dream is alive and well. The American Dream is alive and well for some who see opportunity to better themselves and become successful through hard work but at the same time it is alive and well for people who sit back and wait for government assistance to get them through life. Both are american dreams and IN MY OPINION the latter of the two IS 100% WRONG.

Regarding your second paragraph:
You repeated exactly what I wrote and I am glad we agree on this issue. If the Republican party wants to be more competitive then they need to scrape away the crap that blinds people of what they actually want to achieve. Romney had great ideas regarding the economy but people seemed to be blinded by the social issues that separate republican vs democrat as opposed to who they were voting for, Obama vs Romney.
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      11-08-2012, 12:28 PM   #41
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We still live in a democracy
We live in a republic. Learn the difference.
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      11-08-2012, 02:53 PM   #42
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It was about demographics. Specifically it was about the changing demographics of the U.S and the ability and strategy of both campaigns to recognize and appeal to those changing demographics.
Boy was it ever.

I think there's no question that certain aspects of the Republican platform are not too appealing to certain groups of non-whites, esp their stance on immigration.

I think there's also no question that if you look at any available studies of birthrates, and you see the number of children white couples are having compared the number of children non-whites are having (esp the hispanics who are affected by the immigration stance), there is an ever growing gap there too.

On top of that, you could argue that the Republicans are a party whose policies benefit the self-sufficient and affluent more. Again, studies all continue to show that career-oriented, college educated professionals (regardless of race), who statistically tend to earn more, also tend to have their first child later in life than those who dont study past high school, and to compound that, they also end up having fewer children in total by the time they reach the end of their childbearing years.

Anyone who understands what binary exponentiation is can tell you there will be an ever increasing gap in the size of the target audience.

Demographically, there is a big problem there for the Republicans that will only get worse with time.

The part that must be really frustrating for long-time Republican party members, especially those who were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth and earned their wealth, is that they can see that it is actually in the self-interest of these soon-to-no-longer-be-minority groups to work harder at improving their lives to the point where they would fall into the category of people who would actually benefit MORE from the current Republican platform than the Democratic one! Especially the fiscal/tax aspects of it. There are things they have 100% control over to increase their chances of getting there; have fewer kids so that you can afford to better provide for the ones you do have, send them to college so that future generations benefit, etc. But, birthrate studies show that ain't happening in big numbers, at least not yet.

What should the Republicans do ? Change portions of their platform to appeal to those who choose to not act in their own long term best interest?
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      11-08-2012, 03:27 PM   #43
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We live in a republic. Learn the difference.
in case people don't know....

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By definition, a republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to a charter, or constitution, and a democracy is a government that is ruled according to the will of the majority.
A republic is designed to protect the right of the INDIVIDUAL from will of the majority. Administrations past and present have introduced laws and amendments degrading the Constitution, which at one time did a fine job of protecting the rights of individuals from the majority. You would think that most democrats would realize this since they seem to champion the idea of fairness for everyone. I guess this idea seems lost on republicans because the democrats want fairness for everyone at the expense of a few.

When you cut out the garbage that the government want's us to focus on and quarrel about, democrats and republicans generally want the same things. A stable economy, national security, equal opportunity for all. This, then begs the question; if democrats and republicans are against deficits, why are there deficits? If democrats and republicans are against high taxes, why are there high taxes. There really are only a hand full of people (545) who are in control of this ship. Surely we haven't chosen the cream of the crop?.?.
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      11-08-2012, 03:46 PM   #44
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What should the Republicans do ? Change portions of their platform to appeal to those who choose to not act in their own long term best interest?
From my point of view I see it as an issue of branding and marketing for the Republicans; and to a larger part that history does repeat itself. Thinking about this I recall my grandparents’ stories of the “Great Depression”. They squarely put the blame on Herbert Hoover and the Republicans. As a result they never voted for a Republican—my Grandmother is 90 and has never voted for anyone other than a Democrat. At another critical moment during the “Stagflation” of the 70s the pendulum swung in the other direction, which ushered in “Reaganomics”. There are many, such as myself, who remain captivated by what he achieved. The most recent “Great Recession” has now produced a demographic that blames the Republican Bush (for right wrong or indifferent because it doesn’t matter to illustrate the point) and as a result will not sway toward the GOP.

That’s the dilemma for the GOP: How to rebrand itself as an inclusive party, the party with ideas that can broadcast its message, but more importantly convince people sincerely. I believe it starts with pulling away from the social issues that many don’t see as that important. It’s apparent that they need to do something. All their traction is lost by idiots saying rape is God’s will (may not be Murdoch’s words exactly, but that’s what the press reported so therefore it’s reality). I think the older you get the more focused you become on long term interests. The majority of the younger crowd doesn't think in those terms...
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