[GoingTooFast]

Toyobaru 'GT3'...

Subaru BRZ RA Racing Edition

6 point roll cage (with sidebar)
4 point seat belt anchor bolt and mounting (official FIA)
air-cooled engine oil cooler
brake ducts
brake dust covers
Engine under cover (Aluminum)
racing floor mat (1 only)
Front and rear tow hooks

[Levi]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Unless you are used to RWD cars and more importantly you are very good at it, I wouldn't recommend the S2000 AP1 as I wouldn't recommend the 1M for a first car or a first RWD experience... it's like

That's another great feature of the Toyobaru... it can be the best learning tool while it is able to seduce the most talented as well, that's something only reserved to the true greatest... great, great car!

Yes, that is true. Well, I had a 735i E32, broke the rear axle against a pavement.
The MX-5 also is a good learning tool. The 4C however will be more like a 911 with its 40/60 weight distribution, and with its short wheelbase and wide track, it is suposed to have enormous grip, but that also means loss of control will be hard to gain back.

[Levi]

+1000 HP Toyota GT86 Build!

Engine: Custom 6.2l V8 (Toyota 3UR-FE)


Chassis after acid dipping...



Seam welding


Bodykit


More info: http://www.ultimate86.com/

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

Yes, that is true. Well, I had a 735i E32, broke the rear axle against a pavement.
The MX-5 also is a good learning tool.

The E32 is a LOT of weight to throw around corners... Yes, you would be a LOT better off learning in a Miata.

Originally Posted by Levi

The 4C however will be more like a 911 with its 40/60 weight distribution, and with its short wheelbase and wide track, it is suposed to have enormous grip, but that also means loss of control will be hard to gain back.

No way! What really matters is the dynamic weight distribution and not so much the static weight distribution. The fomer is greatly determined by the engine placement relative to the car's front and rear axles which in turn determines where the car's center of mass will be located relative to the very same axles. So, you can see how different the dynamic weight distribution will be depending on the engine placement - either in front of or behind those car's rear axle. And, in that regard the Alfa 4C is much closer to the Porsche Cayman than to the 911 which, in DEEP contrast to the other two, has the engine placed behind the rear axle:


Alfa 4C:


Porsche Cayman:




Porsche 911:

[GoingTooFast]

The dynamic weight distribution IS also the reason why the height and the weight of the engine is so important and, therefore, why changing the Toyobaru's boxer engine for a bigger, taller and heavier engine, even though more powerful, is not a good idea from the dynamic balance perspective.

[Levi]

^ Yes my inaccuracy about static and dynamic WD. 4C is "an italian CF Lotus". By that measurement car with FWD brake faster. But in practice it is not the case.

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

The dynamic weight distribution IS also the reason why the height and the weight of the engine is so important and, therefore, why changing the Toyobaru's boxer engine for a bigger, taller and heavier engine, even though more powerful, is not a good idea from the dynamic balance perspective.

It will not have a big affect if suspension is tuned correctly. It will be just more nose-heavy like Audi and most other cars. Of course it is not better. I don't think the S65 in the the 1M affect handling, on the contrary it maybe even improves. But that is why I want the next M2 to be a turbocharged I4.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

It will not have a big affect if suspension is tuned correctly. It will be just more nose-heavy like Audi and most other cars. Of course it is not better. I don't think the S65 in the the 1M affect handling, on the contrary it maybe even improves.

Levi,

Just think about the most extreme example to get a better understanding... did you ever ask to yourself:

1. Why has Porsche never abandoned the 6 cyl. boxer engine configuration in the 911?!

2. Why was the 911 traditionally so difficult to drive fast until Porsche has started to bring the engine a little forward and introducing electronic damper and stability control aid?!

3. Why does the 911 need such HUGE REAR WINGS even for road use when compared to similarly powered 'super sport cars'?!

4. Why does the 911 need such HUGE REAR TIRES even for road use when compared to more powerful and similarly weighted 'super sport cars'?!

Take the Ferrari 458 Italia example vs the Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0:

............................ 458 Italia.................. 911 GT3 RS
Rear tires............ 295/35 ZR20............ 325/30 ZR19
Power output.......... 570 hp ....................... 500 hp
Curb weight....... 1380 kg (3042 lbs).......... 1360 kg (2998 lbs)


The answer lays in here:





There is no miracles!

Originally Posted by Levi

But that is why I want the next M2 to be a turbocharged I4.

I really doubt that the M2 will have a turbocharged I4. BMW doesn't know how to do a lightweight, excellent turn-in characteristics car anymore.

[GoingTooFast]

Shootout 2013: Subaru BRZ vs. Opel Astra OPC feat. Chris Harris and Deon Joubert:

1. Opel Astra OPC (280 hp)....... 1:27,874
2. Subaru BRZ (200 hp)............ 1:32,161

[GoingTooFast]

And another one to complete the picture...

[GoingTooFast]

Finally, the end result with the victory going not surprisingly to the M135:

[GoingTooFast]

The Alfa 4C represents indeed a very BOLD move from Alfa Romeo. A LOT lighter than the Toyobaru (the concept announced ONLY 850kg ) yet more powerful than the Toyobaru's 200hp with its 1.7L turbocharged I4 engine and looking MUCH better than the Toyobaru and the 981 Cayman which I think looks . Very nice looking car even with camouflage...

[Levi]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

The Alfa 4C represents indeed a very BOLD move from Alfa Romeo. A LOT lighter than the Toyobaru (the concept announced ONLY 850kg ) yet more powerful than the Toyobaru's 200hp with its 1.7L turbocharged I4 engine and looking MUCH better than the Toyobaru and the 981 Cayman which I think looks . Very nice looking car even with camouflage...

While the Toyota GT86 is like a poor man's Lexus LFA, the Alfa Romeo 4C is like a poor man's Ferrari F70. Both will be at Geneva by the way.

[GoingTooFast]

Hey Advevo, try this one if you can... all you have to do is to find a nice looking girl who likes milk shake for the morning...

I already have the girl... what about the skills?! I think I need a Toyobaru...

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

While the Toyota GT86 is like a poor man's Lexus LFA

The Toyobaru is unique, it has nothing to do with the LFA.

[Red Bread]

Wow, the 4C looks great. I don't agree with your dislike of the 981 and find it look great, certainly better than the BRZ. But if the 4C actually comes to the US and costs the same or less than a Cayman S, I'd be very likely to get that as my next car. I prefer cars that take a little skill to master and this seems like the perfect challenge.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

The Toyobaru is unique, it has nothing to do with the LFA.

GT86 is unique, LFA is sacred.

[GoingTooFast]

^^ I'm sorry to disagree... the Ferrari 458 (Spyder or otherwise... better otherwise) is the best car I've never driven :

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Wow, the 4C looks great. I don't agree with your dislike of the 981 and find it look great, certainly better than the BRZ..

I really don't like the 981 looks... as for the Toyobaru, I wish it could have been more faithful to the BRZ Concept STI... I just love the way it looks, miles better than the 981.

Originally Posted by Red Bread

But if the 4C actually comes to the US and costs the same or less than a Cayman S, I'd be very likely to get that as my next car. I prefer cars that take a little skill to master and this seems like the perfect challenge.

You prefer cars that take a little skill to master, you say... 2013 BMW X1 35i... Am I missing something here?!

I, to the contrary, prefer cars that act like they were a 'bionic extension' of my arms and legs to only then drive them in a challenging way - this is my concept of CAR FUN.


Do you and anyone else reading this understand the FUNDAMENTAL difference between these two concepts?!

Let me help you then, it's like the difference between the 1M and the Toyobaru... that's why I like the Toyobaru SO much, I define my own challenges.

[Red Bread]

Hey, Smarty Pants, I have a wife, she drives an X1, she had a 135i before it. Neither do much for me, but she likes them.

I sold my M Coupe and have a two mile commute that entails a bike, light rail or my beater Mazda3. It four wheel drifts like a champ, and would be jealous of Prius tires.

I've been looking for a fun, drivers car and right now, it's down to a BRZ, a Boxster Spyder or the 4C. An STI BRZ with a little more oomph would likely sell me, the stock one just leaves me wanting more.

[GoingTooFast]

Your garage list... is what it is... your garage list listed by you. I take it as it is, like nothing else exists there worthing to be mentioned.

[Red Bread]

So owning one car that doesn't fit my ideal ethos for a weekend car clearly invalidates all other opinions?

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

Both will be at Geneva by the way.

And also this one...



Toyota Teases New FT-86 (Scion FR-S) Open Concept Ahead of Geneva Salon World Premiere