[M2siast]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

As is yours. You said it.

I didn't give my opinion on the laws. I said it is the law. My opinion on whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant.

You seem very emotional, not sure why. Hope your day improves.

PS: thanks for noticing my miss of the apostrophe. I meant to say "other countries' laws", thanks for noticing

[izzyM2]

Another reason to trade a car in and just let a dealer take most of your profit.

[Dasky_spas]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

This is crazy and what happened at the bank makes ZERO SENSE!!! I worked in bank operations for many years. A bank should be able to verify a valid routing number in about two seconds. As well they should never have said the cashier’s check was genuine without verifying the routing number and calling the issuing bank to verify the check. This part of the story makes no sense. If the bank screwed up this badly they should be sued to make him whole.

Agreed!! Only diff btwn cert check and cashier check is that one is made payable to a party. Both place the funds into the physical check, those funds are no longer in your account. You also have to pay a hefty fee to cancel a cert check. The sole purpose of the bank in that respect is playing intermediary and they failed. Since when can a bank charge for the service and then not even provide the service. This is a failure in the banking system as I heard this happen a few times now.

It would seem the only prudent way to then sell and accept funds privately is to only accept a wire transfer. Even cash can be counterfeit bills.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I actually thought that was standard, but yeah, I can see it can vary depending on the bank, teller, how busy they are, if they are itching to go to lunch, etc.

I sold a car once long ago, the buyer brought a cashiers check and we went to the bank together with it. We sat off to the side for 5-10 minutes while someone actually called up the other persons bank to make sure the check was real / funds were available. I guess I don't know the details but they did do some work on it. Good reminder to be sure this happens if I ever repeat a sale that way.



So, since you were in the industry and know things, can the buyer empty the account and / or close it before you get a chance to go deposit that check?

For $75k I might actually create an account at the buyers bank for myself, and have it go direct while we are both in the bank itself. I suppose there's a reason not to do that but for so much money I think I'd be a little extra careful as well.

If you just walked up to me as a teller with a $75,000 cashier’s check and wanted to deposit it and you were alone and didn’t indicate you had any questions about it I would, in fact, just take the check and process the deposit and give you your receipt, but I would not do anything special to check on it right then and there. BUT, it would go into my “large items” transaction bin (as opposed to the bin that holds all the nondescript transactions) and a supervisor charged with reviewing the large items would look at it before it went into the system. Even so, if there was nothing to raise a red flag it would probably go on into the system. In this case it sounds like Kies was with the seller and gave the bank some indication he wanted to verify the legitimacy of the check, so it should have received some immediate scrutiny.

Originally Posted by Tobster3

I’m not in the industry or know very much about it. However, when I have gone to the bank to get Cashiers checks from the bank for vehicles I am purchasing, the money has come out of my account at that time when the check is issued. So In my experience, I’d say this is not possible.

You are correct. Banks only issue cashier’s checks once they are paid for in full with guaranteed funds directly from the purchaser. The cashier’s check is an obligation of the bank and is drawn on bank funds from the bank’s cashier’s check account. There’s no chance for the purchaser of the check to somehow close their account to get around paying for the check. The funds are immediately debited from the purchaser’s account. Assuming, of course, the purchaser was paying from their own bank account. It is possible to buy a cashier’s check with cash. And then it is up to the teller to determine that none of that cash is counterfeit. With the amount of genuine currency you handle on a daily basis it is pretty easy to identify counterfeit currency the moment your fingers touch it. Counterfeit currency does not feel like genuine currency. Also, the absolute dead giveaway to counterfeit currency is its lack of imbedded red and blue fibers in the paper. There literally is no other paper that has these imbedded fibers. They cannot be counterfeited. On close examination of counterfeit currency you can see the red and blue “fibers” are merely ink sitting on top of the paper. With genuine U.S. currency you can actually take the point of a straight pin or a safety pin and tease the imbedded red and blue fibers out from within the paper.

[Dasky_spas]

Originally Posted by cbpip

Unfortunately cashiers check funds can be pulled back by the person or lending institution providing the check. Always in cases of transferring monies either use wire transfer which can not be reversed or if you must receive a bank check always make the receiver of goods wait until the check clears both banks before allowing the property and title to be transfered, at least a week or more. Just having a lending institution accept a check does not make it good, hence the wait time for it to clear. You can also call the issuing institution to inquire and to question the validity of the check and if there are sufficient funds available ( they will most times at least answer with a yes or no, but not answer the amount of monies in an account). Never relinquish possession of the title until the wait time has passed for checks to clear both lending institutions, usually a week.

These types of check / money order frauds have long been an instrument of thieves. Similar to the old "I've sent you more money than requested, send me back the overage". Once deposited it looks good initially but a week latter after the bogus funding instrument has been discovered to be fraudulent they the bank reverses the deposited amount. The thieves count on you sending the property and the overage to them. You are out both the item and the overage they claimed to have sent.

Hope the vehicle gets recovered. These guys should be prosecuted and made to pay restitution as well as jail time for auto theft. Dirt bags will always be dirt bags. I would bet a good asset recovery company could track him down.

This is not correct though. The cashiers check deducts the funds from the account. That said, the bank should be liable however banks have ridiculous deep legal funds to ensure they will never be beaten. Worth a shot by Kies though.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I didn't give my opinion on the laws. I said it is the law. My opinion on whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant.

You seem very emotional, not sure why. Hope your day improves.

PS: thanks for noticing my miss of the apostrophe. I meant to say "other countries' laws", thanks for noticing

And I said you do not know whether or not it is the law in the specific jurisdiction where the OP resides.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

And I said you do not know whether or not it is the law in the specific jurisdiction where the OP resides.

You are right then. I am not a lawyer. I just assume it's common sense and am a bit lazy to try to find the right laws or statutes, or even court cases in the jurisdiction the car was sold in.

Here is food for thought:
https://ontrak-solutions.com/does-tr...r%20permission.


"One of the top questions that we get is whether tracking a car via GPS violates driver privacy? The answer depends on several factors. So, let us start with the basics.

Can you use a GPS tracker on someone else’s vehicle without their permission? Absolutely not. It is illegal in all 50 states to put a GPS tracker on someone else’s vehicle without their permission. It is not only illegal, but it opens you up to all sorts of potential civil lawsuits for violations of privacy. We will not sell you a GPS tracker to place on someone else’s vehicle, and we are flat-out telling you not to do it if you get a GPS tracker somewhere else. It is illegal."

This is a company out of New Jersey, where KIES is.

So I don't know man. You do you.

[matteo]

Car was found!

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by M2siast

You are right then. I am not a lawyer. I just assume it's common sense and am a bit lazy to try to find the right laws or statutes, or even court cases in the jurisdiction the car was sold in.

Here is food for thought:
https://ontrak-solutions.com/does-tr...r%20permission.


"One of the top questions that we get is whether tracking a car via GPS violates driver privacy? The answer depends on several factors. So, let us start with the basics.

Can you use a GPS tracker on someone else’s vehicle without their permission? Absolutely not. It is illegal in all 50 states to put a GPS tracker on someone else’s vehicle without their permission. It is not only illegal, but it opens you up to all sorts of potential civil lawsuits for violations of privacy. We will not sell you a GPS tracker to place on someone else’s vehicle, and we are flat-out telling you not to do it if you get a GPS tracker somewhere else. It is illegal."

This is a company out of New Jersey, where KIES is.

So I don't know man. You do you.

“Oh, I accidentally left an AirTag in the trunk of the car I personally owned and just sold. I’ve never tracked it and I have no intention of tracking it. Is that illegal?” “Now I found out the so-called buyer of my car has effectively stolen it by paying for it with a counterfeit check and I’m going to use the AirTag I unintentionally left in it to track it so I can get it back.” “Oh no! You can’t do that. The thief will have the police charge you with illegally tracking him in the car he stole from you.”



Okay, enough of this. Back to leaving you on ignore. A good reminder of why I put you in that status.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by M2siast

1- Felony is an american concept. No such thing in Canada.
2- I believe installing a tracking device in someone's car is a FEDERAL crime in the US, I could be wrong, I doubt there's a single state or county who will allow it.
3- RE: "things that are illegal in Canada and not in the US": Non-sequitur, irrelevant to the discussion. We're only talking about Kies and his F80, your opinion on other countries laws is irrelevant and inopportune.

well maybe you should read the law before making such accusations. but the court in this case would find due to pavement being fraudulent the car is still KIES. and your last statement is rich while you comment on US laws.

it could be argued when the buyer took delivery that he provided effective consent to the tracking, even though he didn't know it was there.

and its a misdemeanor. there has to be intent. good luck getting a prosecutor to pick a case like this up :lol

nice big words tho.


anyways this is totally irrelevant.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by matteo

Car was found!

smells like good PR stunt to me. lets see if more details emerge.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

well maybe you should read the law before making such accusations. but the court in this case would find due to pavement being fraudulent the car is still KIES. and your last statement is rich while you comment on US laws.

it could be argued when the buyer took delivery that he provided effective consent to the tracking, even though he didn't know it was there.

and its a misdemeanor. there has to be intent. good luck getting a prosecutor to pick a case like this up :lol

nice big words tho.


anyways this is totally irrelevant.

You’re entirely wrong. But like you said, it’s irrelevant because it won’t be the last time… cheers and good luck tracking people’s cars.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by M2siast

You’re entirely wrong. But like you said, it’s irrelevant because it won’t be the last time… cheers and good luck tracking people’s cars.

nice buddy, you make curt statements, get called out. and provide "you are entirely wrong" as rebuttal

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

nice buddy, you make curt statements, get called out. and provide "you are entirely wrong" as rebuttal

I wasn’t called out. I, differently than you, provided proof of why I’m right.
Rest in peace.

[a5m]

Car was 'found' guys. We can all go home now.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Cashier check is ok with me as I have sold a few cars in the past.
The key is to meet them at THEIR bank have the check made out to you
Sold my last f80 and took a $54k cashier check for it

Exactly. This is the way. I sold a car once and we met at Chase where they drafted the cashier's check in front of me.

[G30M]

wait. how can the bank put funds in your account and then withdraw funds from your account without your consent?

that is crazy! i would have thought if the money was in one's account the money is safe!

someone please explain!

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by g21

wait. how can the bank put funds in your account and then withdraw funds from your account without your consent?

that is crazy! i would have thought if the money was in one's account the money is safe!

someone please explain!

I posted numerous explanations of how cashier’s checks work in the U.S. Deposits are always taken on a conditional basis, because it takes time to process checks and collect the funds.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by g21

wait. how can the bank put funds in your account and then withdraw funds from your account without your consent?

that is crazy! i would have thought if the money was in one's account the money is safe!

someone please explain!

I too was confused by that.

The only thing I can think is that it wasn't "in" the account, it was just showing as pending but not cleared.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I posted numerous explanations of how cashier’s checks work in the U.S. Deposits are always taken on a conditional basis, because it takes time to process checks and collect the funds.

i see. thanks. so the deposit was a conditional deposit. where i am the money does not "show up" in the account until the funds are cleared.

[Bimmer_Pilot]

Happy to see the car was found in one piece.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I posted numerous explanations of how cashier’s checks work in the U.S. Deposits are always taken on a conditional basis, because it takes time to process checks and collect the funds.

I think the issue is that people don't fully realize that. And banks are trash.