[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Yet you keep responding though lol

A quick add to your ignore list and you won't have to see my annoying posts.

Sometimes when people state the truth, people get annoyed.

Again i am rooting for porsche. I am a porsche fan. I was just stating facts that tesla is still the leader in this technology. It was clear the topic of this thread is the taycan no? Who is it trying to go against? The model s plaid no?

So it was inevitable someone will mention tesla. I just so happen to do it. Because i'm stating facts.

Would you rather own a Model S Plaid or a Taycan Turbo S? One is a straight line monster with a shit yoke and a cheap interior, trash build quality, huge panel gaps, extremely limited color choice, very plain seats, lacks many standard features that even a 40k Kia has, fucked up controls like an on-screen reverse gear control and horrible capacitive touch buttons for pretty much everything incl. turn signals, horn etc. The second car is a tad slower but is a true premium car, top quality, a real Porsche, gorgeous exterior AND interior, beautifully hides its weight, handles like a Porsche should etc. Just be honest.

P.S.: I understand that Plaid is much cheaper, but to me this is like taking a huge ass kitchen from home depot over an Italian Boffi kitchen because the former has more storage space.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Would you rather own a Model S Plaid or a Taycan Turbo S? One is a straight line monster with a shit yoke and a cheap interior, trash build quality, huge panel gaps, extremely limited color choice, very plain seats, lacks many standard features that even a 40k Kia has, fucked up controls like an on-screen reverse gear control and horrible capacitive touch buttons for pretty much everything incl. turn signals, horn etc. The second car is a tad slower but is a true premium car, top quality, a real Porsche, gorgeous exterior AND interior, beautifully hides its weight, handles like a Porsche should etc. Just be honest.

P.S.: I understand that Plaid is much cheaper, but to me this is like taking a huge ass kitchen from home depot over an Italian Boffi kitchen because the former has more storage space.

But the general consensus is that ev has no soul. So for the price point what are you really looking for?

The plaid is the fastest ev you can buy for the price point period.

Has the best range for its price point period.

The best network for its price point period.

If I wanted a hyper ev I would always pick a plaid for the reasons above.

Of course there might be something better out there, there always is. But when you look at it as a whole, the model s plaid is the hyper ev to get.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

But the general consensus is that ev has no soul. So for the price point what are you really looking for?

The plaid is the fastest ev you can buy for the price point period.

Has the best range for its price point period.

The best network for its price point period.

If I wanted a hyper ev I would always pick a plaid for the reasons above.

Of course there might be something better out there, there always is. But when you look at it as a whole, the model s plaid is the hyper ev to get.

You completely just dismissed all the points AlexFL made where the Porsche is better. Why does your list of desirables in a Hyper EV trump his (and most of our views of the Taycan Turbo S)?

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

You completely just dismissed all the points AlexFL made where the Porsche is better. Why does your list of desirables in a Hyper EV trump his (and most of our views of the Taycan Turbo S)?

No I didn’t. I just said why I would pick a plaid over a taycan.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

No I didn’t. I just said why I would pick a plaid over a taycan.

From your previous post..."Again i am rooting for porsche. I am a porsche fan. I was just stating facts that tesla is still the leader in this technology.". So are you just stating the facts you mentioned above, or the Plaid as a whole? The Plaid is NOT the whole package, it's the whole package for YOU. Likewise, the Taycan isn't the whole package, but it is for many others that value other aspects of driving, refinement, brand heritage, dealer network, etc.

[________]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

From your previous post..."Again i am rooting for porsche. I am a porsche fan. I was just stating facts that tesla is still the leader in this technology.". So are you just stating the facts you mentioned above, or the Plaid as a whole? The Plaid is NOT the whole package, it's the whole package for YOU. Likewise, the Taycan isn't the whole package, but it is for many others that value other aspects of driving, refinement, brand heritage, dealer network, etc.

That’s exactly what Alex asked and he answered… confused lol

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

From your previous post..."Again i am rooting for porsche. I am a porsche fan. I was just stating facts that tesla is still the leader in this technology.". So are you just stating the facts you mentioned above, or the Plaid as a whole? The Plaid is NOT the whole package, it's the whole package for YOU. Likewise, the Taycan isn't the whole package, but it is for many others that value other aspects of driving, refinement, brand heritage, dealer network, etc.

Right. I am a Porsche fan.

Yet the taycan falls short on every statistical category besides 2 seconds faster at the ring and having a “nicer interior”.

Plaid is the better bang for buck period. Yes I will choose the plaid over the taycan 10 times out of 10 until Porsche corrects its disadvantages as I just stated.

Can’t dumb this down anymore for you guys.

[chad86tsi]

You forgot:

service/support model and dealer network.

Styling inside and out

Driver experience (handling dynamics)

Quality and engineering of materials used

Reliability scores

Prestige (which I don’t care about, but many do)

OEM Option-ability & customization

Trustworthy stats


That last one is important, Tesla rated figures are nearly impossible to achieve, while Taycan is consistently proven faster than rated. That matters when you are comparing numbers while bench racing. Real testing shows the plaid only wins 0-60 by 0.1 to 0.3 seconds. It takes longer to say “seconds” than the difference between them 0-60. Numerous reputable sources have only achieved 2.3x on the plaid, and 2.4x on the Taycan turbo S

With the release of the 1000 hp tacan and sapphire, I’m guessing the Plaid will be an “also ran” on the streets soon.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Onesie

That’s exactly what Alex asked and he answered… confused lol

No he didn't. He keeps saying that the Plaid is better and it's a fact and it's the whole package. Then he says that's just his opinion, then says it's fact again. It's an effing opinion and that's it, so he can stop with his facts this and whole package that. Obviously, many of us feel that not to be the case (yup the Plaid is faster (in a straight line), yup it's cheaper, yup it's got the supercharger network. What it doesn't have is everything else that has been outlined yet ignored by him (but washes over it by saying "I'm a Porsche fan")...that's not what this is about. The Plaid is not "the best" hyper EV or whatever you want to call it. It's the best in a few categories, and then there is the Taycan Turbo S that bests the Plaid in a few categories...who's right? NOBODY! It's subjective to determine what's "the best" and that's the point.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

You forgot:

service/support model and dealer network.

Styling inside and out

Driver experience (handling dynamics)

Quality and engineering of materials used

Reliability scores

Prestige (which I don’t care about, but many do)

OEM Option-ability & customization

Trustworthy stats
.

None of these matter. Trust youtube and tiktok, it’s all about 0-60 these days.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Right. I am a Porsche fan.

Yet the taycan falls short on every statistical category besides 2 seconds faster at the ring and having a “nicer interior”.

Plaid is the better bang for buck period. Yes I will choose the plaid over the taycan 10 times out of 10 until Porsche corrects its disadvantages as I just stated.

Can’t dumb this down anymore for you guys.

I am a Tesla fan, yet the Plaid falls short in every single category outside of straight line acceleration and charging network. Again… a huge Tesla fan here.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I am a Tesla fan, yet the Plaid falls short in every single category outside of straight line acceleration and charging network. Again… a huge Tesla fan here.

That’s great except people buy these hyper ev for its performance and network really lol

What good is one without the other. 1000hp taycan will be 200k+. Same with lucid air. Will those be faster than the plaid? Sure, marginally.

Plaid is still cheaper, better range with a better network for its price point.

So yeah plaid is the one to get lol

[dgoldenz]

The Plaid is also going to have much worse resale value than the Taycan, so despite it being a lot less expensive initially, in the long run the Taycan may actually be cheaper. Time will tell on how these EVs depreciate but if the Taycan holds 70% of its value after 3 years and the Plaid holds 50%, the "cost" is pretty comparable.

The Taycan Turbo S also looks amazing while the Plaid looks like every other Model S appliance. To each their own...

[gatorfast]

Taycan > Tesla

Really nothing else to say

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

That’s great except people buy these hyper ev for its performance and network really lol

What good is one without the other. 1000hp taycan will be 200k+. Same with lucid air. Will those be faster than the plaid? Sure, marginally.

Plaid is still cheaper, better range with a better network for its price point.

So yeah plaid is the one to get lol

Let’s break down what you just said, lol.

1) For 140+k people want everything: performance, quality, luxury and prestige, a complete package. This is a price point where you could buy well-rounded performance sedans like M5 CS, an Alpina B8, a well-equipped RS7, an AMG GT63 and so on. Tesla only delivers on the first category.

2) Please understand that performance is not just straight line acceleration. Most people also care about steering, handling, balance, brakes, cooling, front end etc. - these are all crucially important performance metrics for performance car buyers. This is why many people prefer to look at Nurburgring times, where a car needs to excel at all these metrics, and not at drag strip times where only the forward thrust matters.

3) It is safe to say that most people who can afford paying 140k for a Tesla EV could also afford a 180-200k car.

4) Tesla has a better charging network, i’ll give you that.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Let’s break down what you just said, lol.

1) For 140+k people want everything: performance, quality, luxury and prestige, a complete package. This is a price point where you could buy well-rounded performance sedans like M5 CS, an Alpina B8, a well-equipped RS7, an AMG GT63 and so on. Tesla only delivers on the first category.

2) Please understand that performance is not just straight line acceleration. Most people also care about steering, handling, balance, brakes, cooling, front end etc. - these are all crucially important performance metrics for performance car buyers. This is why many people prefer to look at Nurburgring times, where a car needs to excel at all these metrics, and not at drag strip times where only the forward thrust matters.

3) It is safe to say that most people who can afford paying 140k for a Tesla EV could also afford a 180-200k car.

4) Tesla has a better charging network, i’ll give you that.

Umm no.

First let’s gather the general consensus on ev first. And not cherry pick arguments just because we’re talking about Tesla.

When people guy a plaid, they’re not trying to go to vir or Leguna seca. They are buying it for its ev daily driving purposes while at the same time have that honor of owning right now the fastest ev in the world. Because where is the lucid air? Is it even on the roads yet?

Also the taycan turbo s is 180-200k? But the 1000hp taycan won’t be that, it’ll be more. So what are you taking about? The taycan out now or the 1000hp taycan?

Let’s use the taycan out now. That’s like saying hey guys who are shopping for an m340i, why are you getting that? Spend a bit more and get an m3. You’ll find quickly that either a: they don’t want to spend that much more because that enters a different price bracket unless someone is willing to get THAT model no matter what. B: maybe they can’t afford it but want a performance bmw.

If someone buys a lucid air, it means no matter the cost they just want the latest and greatest which i should be. It just costs double a plaid. And the performance isn’t double, just marginally faster.

It’ll still be cost effective and probably better to just get the plaid.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

BGM, I don't understand the preoccupation with a 2 second 0-60 vs a 2.4 0-60. At this power level its unimpressive, you are already pulling well over a G. The average person will not be able to perceive the difference and more important not care. It will fall far behind other concerns such as having a actual dash & physical buttons, fit & finish, ride quality/handling, braking, etc.

Also the preoccupation with 1000hp is a moot point anyway. As average EV's start pumping out what was once supercar hp numbers (500hp+) the logical conclusion is accidents will rise as will the body count. Considering how long it takes to extinguish a EV when involved in a high speed catastrophic collision, it is safe to assume geo-fenced horsepower limits will be enacted in all major cities.

The high cost of creating this much power in ICE vehicles naturally kept power levels in balance, only those who truly wanted it obtained it. With EV, there is a minimal cost increase, breaking this natural balance. Government will have no choice to step in to provide this balance again and being the gov, they will do it with true authoritarian tenacity . Enjoy it while it lasts. I give it 4-5 years. When everyone has super car performance, no one will.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Umm no.

First let’s gather the general consensus on ev first. And not cherry pick arguments just because we’re talking about Tesla.

When people guy a plaid, they’re not trying to go to vir or Leguna seca. They are buying it for its ev daily driving purposes while at the same time have that honor of owning right now the fastest ev in the world. Because where is the lucid air? Is it even on the roads yet?

Also the taycan turbo s is 180-200k? But the 1000hp taycan won’t be that, it’ll be more. So what are you taking about? The taycan out now or the 1000hp taycan?

Let’s use the taycan out now. That’s like saying hey guys who are shopping for an m340i, why are you getting that? Spend a bit more and get an m3. You’ll find quickly that either a: they don’t want to spend that much more because that enters a different price bracket unless someone is willing to get THAT model no matter what. B: maybe they can’t afford it but want a performance bmw.

If someone buys a lucid air, it means no matter the cost they just want the latest and greatest which i should be. It just costs double a plaid. And the performance isn’t double, just marginally faster.

It’ll still be cost effective and probably better to just get the plaid.

Using your rationale, the Model 3 Performance is the best car to buy, factoring for price (less than half the price) and performance (only a second slower 0-60), and they have the same supercharger network.

Tesla faced the "Fast, cheap, good" conundrum, and chose "fast" and "cheap". Most other EV brands have other plans for their product lines.

the Model S Plaid is the Old English 800 malt-liquor of the beer industry : unbeatably fast and cheap. Problem is it's not so good.

I'll spend a little more and stick to my IPA's, while you claim your 40 of Ole' E is "the best". In that contest, you can claim a victory.

[chris719]

You could easily make the case that the Plaid is a better DD. Is it a better performance car though? I don't think so.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

BGM, I don't understand the preoccupation with a 2 second 0-60 vs a 2.4 0-60. At this power level its unimpressive, you are already pulling well over a G. The average person will not be able to perceive the difference and more important not care. It will fall far behind other concerns such as having a actual dash & physical buttons, fit & finish, ride quality/handling, braking, etc.

Also the preoccupation with 1000hp is a moot point anyway. As average EV's start pumping out what was once supercar hp numbers (500hp+) the logical conclusion is accidents will rise as will the body count. Considering how long it takes to extinguish a EV when involved in a high speed catastrophic collision, it is safe to assume geo-fenced horsepower limits will be enacted in all major cities.

The high cost of creating this much power in ICE vehicles naturally kept power levels in balance, only those who truly wanted it obtained it. With EV, there is a minimal cost increase, breaking this natural balance. Government will have no choice to step in to provide this balance again and being the gov, they will do it with true authoritarian tenacity . Enjoy it while it lasts. I give it 4-5 years. When everyone has super car performance, no one will.

If that’s the case why would anyone spend 200+ on a taycan ev if their intention is to track? Might as well source a gt3.

I am not doubting what you’re saying about cost to make, or government control or any of that so let’s not go off topic.

I’m saying right now for a hyper ev with a 9 second slip, 0-60 in 2 seconds. 60-130 in 4.x seconds, all the bragging rights, great range, the best network right now, nothing beats a plaid.

If someone gets a taycan, it means they want a better interior with inferior in performance. If someone wants a lucid it means they just want the most expensive 4 door ev super sedan. Even though performance is marginally better than the plaid.

The plaid is the best bang for buck super ev right now and will be for a while.

Again I said car makers will catch up I’m sure. But it’ll take time.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

If that’s the case why would anyone spend 200+ on a taycan ev if their intention is to track? Might as well source a gt3.

I am not doubting what you’re saying about cost to make, or government control or any of that so let’s not go off topic.

I’m saying right now for a hyper ev with a 9 second slip, 0-60 in 2 seconds. 60-130 in 4.x seconds, all the bragging rights, great range, the best network right now, nothing beats a plaid.

If someone gets a taycan, it means they want a better interior with inferior in performance. If someone wants a lucid it means they just want the most expensive 4 door ev super sedan. Even though performance is marginally better than the plaid.

The plaid is the best bang for buck super ev right now and will be for a while.

Again I said car makers will catch up I’m sure. But it’ll take time.

You are very passionate about the Plaid and Tesla, I'll give you that

0.1-0.2 seconds is hardly 'inferior', and unless you are running the strip every single day, in the real world with traffic lights, overzealous cops, traffic, trucks, motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians, children, old people, school zones, speed humps, road works, is that 0.1-0.2 second really going to make THAT much of a difference to anyone's lives?

I admit I don't know what the hyper rich who can afford these cars think being a lowly peon, I'd think if you are hyper rich you'd have better things to do with your life. Or at least have better things to dick swing with than a Plaid stat sheet

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

If that’s the case why would anyone spend 200+ on a taycan ev if their intention is to track? Might as well source a gt3.

I am not doubting what you’re saying about cost to make, or government control or any of that so let’s not go off topic.

I’m saying right now for a hyper ev with a 9 second slip, 0-60 in 2 seconds. 60-130 in 4.x seconds, all the bragging rights, great range, the best network right now, nothing beats a plaid.

If someone gets a taycan, it means they want a better interior with inferior in performance. If someone wants a lucid it means they just want the most expensive 4 door ev super sedan. Even though performance is marginally better than the plaid.

The plaid is the best bang for buck super ev right now and will be for a while.

Again I said car makers will catch up I’m sure. But it’ll take time.

Stop equating performance with only straight line metrics.