[WhiteOne]

Isn't Chevrolet the cheapest car made by GM?
Or is it the Saturn?

[Steve135i]

YAH, Chevy makes the cheap Corvette, and now a Camaro based on the Cadilac CTS Holden chassis, with a Corvette engine with an excellent independent suspesion, massive Brembo brakes front and rear, along with launch control with the SS LS3 422HP manual.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Steve135i

YAH, Chevy makes the cheap Corvette, and now a Camaro based on the Cadilac CTS Holden chassis, with a Corvette engine with an excellent independent suspesion, massive Brembo brakes front and rear, along with launch control with the SS LS3 422HP manual.

I'm a big fan of GM's muscle cars (I just sold a GTO) but you're getting pretty carried away for a car that hasn't seen a single magazine test yet. :iono:

[Spook]

I truly hope it's a wonderful car enjoyed by many, but it does seem to have a certain hugeness about it. And it is pretty heavy. You can make all that move in a straight line pretty good with a big enough V8 and lots of fossil fuels but not sure how well you can manage it through the twisties. That may not matter to a target audience a lot more interested in NASCAR than F1. Finally, I don't trust GM to produce a decent interior and a reliable car. They are light years better than 1978 when my Pontiac fell apart after 45,000 easy miles but they still have a ways to go.

[Genericuser1]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I'm a big fan of GM's muscle cars (I just sold a GTO) but you're getting pretty carried away for a car that hasn't seen a single magazine test yet. :iono:

The Camaro is on the top of my list too but I have to agree with Jeremy. The SS will be toting around at least 500 more lbs so while it may be a tad faster in the 1/4 I think it will lose some ground in the turns.

I do think the times listed so far are a bit low for the Camaro, doesn't the M3 with 3,700lbs and 414hp hit like 4.3 to 60? I'd expect 4.4-4.5 for the SS.

[ARES45]

I feel Chevy is just always behind the power curve on their vehicles, this is just too late for me to be interested.

Another question I have is what happens if/when they have to file for bankrupcy? Or can a company lose money for a decade and remain solvient?

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd

I do think the times listed so far are a bit low for the Camaro, doesn't the M3 with 3,700lbs and 414hp hit like 4.3 to 60? I'd expect 4.4-4.5 for the SS.

I'd be surprised if the 0-60 times are quiet that fast just because of past experience with their IRS, but I'd certainly expect them to be under 5 seconds (using US magazine testing methods), and a high 12 second 1/4 mile.

There's no good reason I can find that would suggest this car won't be at least a little faster than the GTO. As much tuning as GM has been doing at The 'Ring, it should handle pretty well to boot, but how well remains to be seen.

[mistermojorizin]

i hear c6's are leasing really well these days, i'd much rather have a sports car than a camero. my c5 (base price was 40k) ran similar numbers to that camaro, with about 70hp less - what a joke!

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

i hear c6's are leasing really well these days, i'd much rather have a sports car than a camero. my c5 (base price was 40k) ran similar numbers to that camaro, with about 70hp less - what a joke!

The Camaro is a joke because the last generation Corvette is as fast? WTF kind of logic is that? The Vette is a lightweight, composite, two seat sports car that cost more 4 years ago.

[GigEm93]

I had my heart set on the new Camaro until they released the specs on the SS and the writing was on the wall that the Z28 (550hp supercharged engine, presumably the same one going in the new CTS-V Coupe) was very likely to get cancelled, or would at the very least not come out until mid-2010.

The IRS will be nice and it will handle much better than a Mustang and it run circles around the Challenger and its 4200 lbs, but in the end it just wasn't a good fit for me. Now I'm taking delivery of a 135 in 4 weeks instead. :biggrin:

[s204speed]

How about that other number, you know, the one with "mpg"?

Once consumers and magazines get over the novelty of the new exterior design, I think it will become just another big, heavy, gas-guzzling, low-tech, and now expensive, american muscle car.

Props to Chevy for offering it with manual though! (What the hell was Dodge thinking?)

But remember how everyone was excited about the GT500 when it came out, and a year or two later everyone dismisses it as a an archaic, poor-performing American pig.

Sorta going off-topic, but I can see Ford's new EcoBoost engine line becoming an N54 equivalent of power, refinement and fuel-economy; something GM would get flack for putting in a muscle car, but what's needed in today's world.

[BMW Dreamer]

The BMW M3 weighs 3680#
The Camaro SS weighs 3880#
The M3 is 50/50
The SS is 52/48

The SS has a very high tech fully independent suspension. Its heavier but will still handle great.

Until I can compare the Camaro SS to the 135i I will see how BMW takes care of the problems I don't like the 135i is having.

The M3 has 414hp@8300
The SS has 422hp@5000
The M3 has 295tq@3900
The SS has 408tq@4500


M3 $65,000
SS $35,000

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by s204speed

How about that other number, you know, the one with "mpg"?

Once consumers and magazines get over the novelty of the new exterior design, I think it will become just another big, heavy, gas-guzzling, low-tech, and now expensive, american muscle car.

GM's V8 cars get VERY good gas mileage. The 135i does about 1-2MPG better than my GTO did, and it wasn't using "displacement on demand" which will probably come on the Camaro.

[BMW Dreamer]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

GM's V8 cars get VERY good gas mileage. The 135i does about 1-2MPG better than my GTO did, and it wasn't using "displacement on demand" which will probably come on the Camaro.

The L99 400HP with DOD comes on the automatic

The LS3 422HP doesn't have it with the manual.
But gets 23mpg highway. Not bad for 422HP.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Jeff1962

The L99 400HP with DOD comes on the automatic

The LS3 422HP doesn't have it with the manual.
But gets 23mpg highway. Not bad for 422HP.

Where are you getting these official mileage numbers?

[GigEm93]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Where are you getting these official mileage numbers?

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/pdf/...ifications.pdf

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Jeff1962

The BMW M3 weighs 3680#
The Camaro SS weighs 3880#
The M3 is 50/50
The SS is 52/48

The SS has a very high tech fully independent suspension. Its heavier but will still handle great.

Until I can compare the Camaro SS to the 135i I will see how BMW takes care of the problems I don't like the 135i is having.

The M3 has 414hp@8300
The SS has 422hp@5000
The M3 has 295tq@3900
The SS has 408tq@4500


M3 $65,000
SS $35,000

The devil is in the details. Do the engine and acceleration specs on a Stock C6 with 430hp and an E92 M3. The 0-60mph and 1/4 times are too damn close. They shouldnt be. The Vette has 100lb+ more pounds of torque and 15hp+ There is also a good 400lb weight difference. The price of the E92 I'm interested in is 55,000, not 65k.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

The devil is in the details. Do the engine and acceleration specs on a Stock C6 with 430hp and an E92 M3. The 0-60mph and 1/4 times are too damn close. They shouldnt be. The Vette has 100lb+ more pounds of torque and 15hp+ There is also a good 400lb weight difference. The price of the E92 I'm interested in is 55,000, not 65k.

The M3 is amazing, but the tires on the Vette do a lot of damage to its magazine performance numbers. Besides, we're still talking about a massive price gap between the two cars. How much performance do you think $10k buys you in the 'Vette aftermarket?

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by GigEm93

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/pdf/...ifications.pdf

Thanks. The mileage numbers are still estimates BTW, not official EPA numbers.

[WhiteOne]

GM lost over $15,000,000,000 in the last 3 months.
That is not counting the losses they are experiencing on leased vehicles.
The odds are 3 to 1 they will be insolvent within 5 years.
I'll just stick with my little BMW.

[Xii]

Impressive performance. I hate the styling though the car looks HUGE. And how in the hell is a car that heavy going to handle as good as lighter sports cars?

[Robert]

135i like other BMW is jack of all trades and do everything really well. SS on the other hand does one thing well, go fast.