This is so UNACCEPTABLE!

FashionChef · 04-27-2006, 09:29 PM

Alright, just got a call from Town and Country BMW today. The sales person told me about the "Special Rate & Residual Program" that will be expired on April 30th, 2006 (This Sunday). This program, as he explained, is when I do not pay tomorrow, the residual value of my E90 will go down on the LEASE as the rates are changing as of April 1st. Basically, to gaurantee I will still be paying the same monthly (instead of a higher amount after the rates and residual change when I pay and drive away later) So, he suggested that we meet tomorrow early morning. And I bring along 4 things: 1) a VOID Cheque 2) the Due On Delivery Bank Draft 3) My Personal License Plate and 4) My Insurance Information. I told him that this is a very UNUSUAL situation. It is usually the PAY and DRIVE AWAY. But in my case, I will be be able to take the E90 for within two weeks. This sales person also told me that the E90 is on the train now and he will rush it for me.

But this sales rep does tell me to trust him this and that. I was appointed to the Sales Manager in the first place from a close friend working at BMW Headquarters. And since I could not contact him now, I have no idea what is sales rep is planning or anything he said is BS. I know this is highly unfair to me, as the rate and residual value of the car is WRITTEN on the "Offer To Lease" Yellow contract. And I've made my deposit. If the rate and residual value is subject to change, WHY do they need me to sign the contact "Offer To Lease" when something THIS IMPORTANT will be change later in such BS manner? ... I am not happy about this at all. And worse, don't know what to do. But comes to worse, I do not think I will go and pay BMW tomorrow and will wait until my E90 arrives. PAY and DRIVE AWAY. I now believe that Town and Country BMW "might" made some mistakes in ordering my E90 - e.g. instead of Terra (that I want), the E90 comes with Beige. If I do pay the money upfront, I have to take whatever mistakes they made WITH the car. Which is MY LOST totally. Therefore, I have made the decision of NOT going to pay BMW tomorrow, and will write a letter of complaint to Canada BMW Headoffice to reflect this situation.

Just want to know if anyone is in the same boat as me? Because this is highly unusual. Any suggestions and comments?

TENCHI · 04-27-2006, 09:34 PM

if u pay money up front you are not obligated to take delivery of the car if it doesn't meet your expectations. Just don't take the keys and drive it off the lot. You will still be able to get ur money back (at least, in the US this is true)

canucklion · 04-27-2006, 09:40 PM

go in tomorrow and see the sales manager to rectify the situation. And doesn't matter if you pay more money now, if the car is not what you ordered, you still can refuse taking delivery of it.

youngtechman · 04-27-2006, 09:48 PM

Don't pay him anything.

For the last 5 car I leased, the Interest rate / Residual value / Monthly payment is LOCKED when you and the sales manager signed the offer. Thats the FINAL. It doesn't matter if the car arrive in 2 days or 2 months.
Don't let him BS you, My best guess is he didn't hit his sales this month and need to make up the story, so he can close the deal on April 30.
Total BS.
BTW........I been in Town and Country couple time and feel their sales people are

me big time.

canucklion · 04-27-2006, 10:33 PM

I got mine at T & C at the end of March, thought my salesman was pretty good...BUT... at first he told me the car would be here by the end of April, so last week I called to see if it's coming in pretty soon, to my surprise (not the good kind), he said that it's at the port in Germany 'waiting' to be shipped.... I was like WTF? and I've also asked for my car's VIN so I can track it, but he still hasn't given it to me yet...
SO long story short, it is very likely that my salesman bs'd me just so he can close the deal before the end of the month

btw, youngtechman, where did you buy yours from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngtechman

Don't pay him anything.

For the last 5 car I leased, the Interest rate / Residual value / Monthly payment is LOCKED when you and the sales manager signed the offer. Thats the FINAL. It doesn't matter if the car arrive in 2 days or 2 months.
Don't let him BS you, My best guess is he didn't hit his sales this month and need to make up the story, so he can close the deal on April 30.
Total BS.
BTW........I been in Town and Country couple time and feel their sales people are

me big time.

findtom · 04-27-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngtechman

Don't pay him anything.

For the last 5 car I leased, the Interest rate / Residual value / Monthly payment is LOCKED when you and the sales manager signed the offer. Thats the FINAL. It doesn't matter if the car arrive in 2 days or 2 months.
Don't let him BS you, My best guess is he didn't hit his sales this month and need to make up the story, so he can close the deal on April 30.
Total BS.
BTW........I been in Town and Country couple time and feel their sales people are

me big time.

I agree, the deal is made when the car is ordered. Sounds like he's trying to pad his April numbers and collect a commission a month early.

youngtechman · 04-27-2006, 11:08 PM

I got my at AutoHaus. I just don't like the sales manager at T&C........deal with him long time ago, very bad.

325er · 04-27-2006, 11:25 PM

I know sombody inside T&C. I have it on good authority that the Chinese salesmen in there do nothing but screw their Chinese cutomers all day long. To quote him "....they try to get rich off every deal. They have no problem screwing their fellow Chinese because they know they have their trust...."

So I'm not too surprised by your experience. I got a full 4% off MRSP at T&C plus other bonuses....I bet you barely got 1%.

PersonaNonGrata · 04-27-2006, 11:33 PM

I agree with others who have said that the rates are locked in when you ordered. That is how it was explained to me. My sales manager told me that I would be locked in and if the rates go down, I can take advantage of that but I would do no worse than the rate at the time the order was placed.

They're just trying to squeeze some cash out of you.

canucklion · 04-27-2006, 11:50 PM

you know for a fact that ALL of the chinese salesmen there do that? I hope you come to one of the Toronto E90 meets, I really want to meet you

Quote:

Originally Posted by 325er

I know sombody inside T&C. I have it on good authority that the Chinese salesmen in there do nothing but screw their Chinese cutomers all day long. To quote him "....they try to get rich off every deal. They have no problem screwing their fellow Chinese because they know they have their trust...."

So I'm not too surprised by your experience. I got a full 4% off MRSP at T&C plus other bonuses....I bet you barely got 1%.

blam · 04-28-2006, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 325er

I know sombody inside T&C. I have it on good authority that the Chinese salesmen in there do nothing but screw their Chinese cutomers all day long. To quote him "....they try to get rich off every deal. They have no problem screwing their fellow Chinese because they know they have their trust...."

So I'm not too surprised by your experience. I got a full 4% off MRSP at T&C plus other bonuses....I bet you barely got 1%.

I am sorry you feel that way. I am a Chinese salesman in Vancouver, B.C. At our facility we treat every client with respect and with pure honesty.

Unfortunately with BMW Financial Services, the rates are only guaranteed if they say so on our programs sheet. Otherwise they are only guaranteed on the date of delivery.

Xtype0 · 04-28-2006, 02:41 AM

I got mine at T&C and I do find that their quality of service is somewhat lacking to say the least. They have a very uptight attidude similar to a superiority complex when dealing with customers. Its almost like they don't really need our business at T&C, atleast that was the way I felt. Its funny how they undermine each other too. My sales rep says that the "sales manager" that FashionChef is dealing with, just gave himself the title due to his seniority in the business, and that he isn't really a sales manager. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I"m just repeating what my rep said.

Anyways, I'll be picking up the car next week, hope they didn't screw anything up on my order, else I'll be really upset and I will either go to another dealer or another brand completely.

Juve29 · 04-28-2006, 09:38 AM

Like I mentioned on previous post my dealer send me off to drive in the snow with summer tire. He could have delivered the car on another day or at least tell me that the car was not equipped with all season tires. When they have to make a sell they have to make the sell. You have to remember that the salesman works for his commission. The customer is not important. Whats important is making money (especially BMW).

blackie · 04-28-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juve29

Like I mentioned on previous post my dealer send me off to drive in the snow with summer tire. He could have delivered the car on another day or at least tell me that the car was not equipped with all season tires. When they have to make a sell they have to make the sell. You have to remember that the salesman works for his commission. The customer is not important. Whats important is making money (especially BMW).

That's a little cynical. I'm sure there are many sales people out there who realise that by treating their customers well they ensure repeat business as well as gain a good word of mouth reputation (on sites like this).

It is too tempting (and not correct) to paint all Chinese salespeople with the same brush. But that doesn't mean that Town and Country's salespeople haven't got a culture going where they use trust to get clients to pay more.

Just remember this: they are salespeople who get paid commission. It is in their interests to sell as many products as possible for the highest possible price. If you don't do your homework, compare prices and shop around, then you will more often than not pay more for your car. This is your own fault, you don't have to give anyone your money. To say they are screwing you afterwards is just dumb.

I think you should read your agreement very carefully and have some tough questions for the Sales manager at T&C. As long as you have the money then you have the upper hand. Don't let them BS you and don't be afraid to ask questions all day long if you don't understand something. It's not really that hard to grasp usually so if you don't get it then keep asking until you do or walk away.

SignHere · 04-28-2006, 10:05 AM

Whew! Lots of arrows being slung here. FashionChef, my advice is to call the salesperson and express your displeasure at his request and find out if he is trying to get this sale in April for whatever reason, or if in fact the rate and residual cannot be locked in for 2 weeks. If he is trying to push the deal into April for his bonuses, perhaps you can negotiate the closing date early and receive something as compensation. If not, sign and feel good that he was smart enough to call you and lock in your deal rather than spring it on you at the last minute.
In Texas we are able to lock in a customer's rate an residual with BMW FS for a maximum of 60 days for on-order vehicles, this may not be the case with other regions.

blackie · 04-28-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignHere

Whew! Lots of arrows being slung here. FashionChef, my advice is to call the salesperson and express your displeasure at his request and find out if he is trying to get this sale in April for whatever reason, or if in fact the rate and residual cannot be locked in for 2 weeks. If he is trying to push the deal into April for his bonuses, perhaps you can negotiate the closing date early and receive something as compensation. If not, sign and feel good that he was smart enough to call you and lock in your deal rather than spring it on you at the last minute.
In Texas we are able to lock in a customer's rate an residual with BMW FS for a maximum of 60 days for on-order vehicles, this may not be the case with other regions.

This sounds like sound advice to me! Play open cards with them and TALK

Juve29 · 04-28-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie

That's a little cynical. I'm sure there are many sales people out there who realise that by treating their customers well they ensure repeat business as well as gain a good word of mouth reputation (on sites like this).

It is too tempting (and not correct) to paint all Chinese salespeople with the same brush. But that doesn't mean that Town and Country's salespeople haven't got a culture going where they use trust to get clients to pay more.

Just remember this: they are salespeople who get paid commission. It is in their interests to sell as many products as possible for the highest possible price. If you don't do your homework, compare prices and shop around, then you will more often than not pay more for your car. This is your own fault, you don't have to give anyone your money. To say they are screwing you afterwards is just dumb.

I think you should read your agreement very carefully and have some tough questions for the Sales manager at T&C. As long as you have the money then you have the upper hand. Don't let them BS you and don't be afraid to ask questions all day long if you don't understand something. It's not really that hard to grasp usually so if you don't get it then keep asking until you do or walk away.

I never talked bad about chinese. You are probably referring to 325er. All I am saying is that a salesman has to make the sale. Therefore, if by telling a customer who's buying a car in november that the car is equipped with summer tires that customer instead of buying the car in november would have waited until March and thats the problem.

ashecnc · 04-28-2006, 11:01 AM

If I remember, my deal was locked in for 60 days, I can't remember the exacts, it may have been longer. I think he could extend it. So no matter what happened to rates or specials, I still got what I was promised on day one

. Keep us posted!

stressdoc · 04-28-2006, 11:19 AM

Blam & SignHere are making good points.
It was pretty clear that interest rates (& lease resids) were going up and up this year. If you locked in a rate, you locked in a rate, but you had better have it in writing. I had a house mortgage firm try and weasel out of a locked rate on me once, it was not fun, the creep was clearly betting rates were going the other way and was hoping to make a few points. He was wrong and it cost him.
If the SA wants to make a sale for the end of the month, fine, use it to your advantage. But keep it on friendly terms!

Asiann · 04-28-2006, 11:22 AM

Always go with your gut feeling! Sounds like you should stay away from the deal and get your money back and go somewhere else.

carnuts3 · 04-28-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asiann

Always go with your gut feeling! Sounds like you should stay away from the deal and get your money back and go somewhere else.

Why not call BMWFS and ask them how long the rate can be locked in under these circumstances. If they don't answer your questions and refer you back to the dealer, then you either resolve it directly with the dealer or walk.

larryn · 04-28-2006, 01:03 PM

Three things...

1.) Your lease cannot be signed retroactively. If you start it today, you're paying for a car you do not have, and your next payment will be due in a month from today.

2.) If you cancel the check you provided them as a deposit, you break the contract, and they CAN impose new rates on you, even if there was a lock.

3.) Strange that this is occurring right at the end of the month, when the do-or-die sales targets are needing to be met.

04-27-2006, 09:29 PM	#1
FashionChef Professional Chef 2 Rep 26 Posts Drives: 2006 325i (SB, SP, PP) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0)	This is so UNACCEPTABLE! Alright, just got a call from Town and Country BMW today. The sales person told me about the "Special Rate & Residual Program" that will be expired on April 30th, 2006 (This Sunday). This program, as he explained, is when I do not pay tomorrow, the residual value of my E90 will go down on the LEASE as the rates are changing as of April 1st. Basically, to gaurantee I will still be paying the same monthly (instead of a higher amount after the rates and residual change when I pay and drive away later) So, he suggested that we meet tomorrow early morning. And I bring along 4 things: 1) a VOID Cheque 2) the Due On Delivery Bank Draft 3) My Personal License Plate and 4) My Insurance Information. I told him that this is a very UNUSUAL situation. It is usually the PAY and DRIVE AWAY. But in my case, I will be be able to take the E90 for within two weeks. This sales person also told me that the E90 is on the train now and he will rush it for me. But this sales rep does tell me to trust him this and that. I was appointed to the Sales Manager in the first place from a close friend working at BMW Headquarters. And since I could not contact him now, I have no idea what is sales rep is planning or anything he said is BS. I know this is highly unfair to me, as the rate and residual value of the car is WRITTEN on the "Offer To Lease" Yellow contract. And I've made my deposit. If the rate and residual value is subject to change, WHY do they need me to sign the contact "Offer To Lease" when something THIS IMPORTANT will be change later in such BS manner? ... I am not happy about this at all. And worse, don't know what to do. But comes to worse, I do not think I will go and pay BMW tomorrow and will wait until my E90 arrives. PAY and DRIVE AWAY. I now believe that Town and Country BMW "might" made some mistakes in ordering my E90 - e.g. instead of Terra (that I want), the E90 comes with Beige. If I do pay the money upfront, I have to take whatever mistakes they made WITH the car. Which is MY LOST totally. Therefore, I have made the decision of NOT going to pay BMW tomorrow, and will write a letter of complaint to Canada BMW Headoffice to reflect this situation. Just want to know if anyone is in the same boat as me? Because this is highly unusual. Any suggestions and comments? __________________ Canadian Culinary Federation
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04-27-2006, 09:34 PM	#2
TENCHI Lieutenant 53 Rep 552 Posts Drives: '19 G12, '17 E300 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Seattle iTrader: (0)	if u pay money up front you are not obligated to take delivery of the car if it doesn't meet your expectations. Just don't take the keys and drive it off the lot. You will still be able to get ur money back (at least, in the US this is true)
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04-27-2006, 09:40 PM	#3
canucklion pull my finger to get your kinder® surprise 148 Rep 10,455 Posts Drives: circles around you Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (9)	go in tomorrow and see the sales manager to rectify the situation. And doesn't matter if you pay more money now, if the car is not what you ordered, you still can refuse taking delivery of it.
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04-27-2006, 09:48 PM	#4
youngtechman Private First Class 18 Rep 122 Posts Drives: 330i -> X3 M40i Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Don't pay him anything. For the last 5 car I leased, the Interest rate / Residual value / Monthly payment is LOCKED when you and the sales manager signed the offer. Thats the FINAL. It doesn't matter if the car arrive in 2 days or 2 months. Don't let him BS you, My best guess is he didn't hit his sales this month and need to make up the story, so he can close the deal on April 30. Total BS. BTW........I been in Town and Country couple time and feel their sales people are me big time. __________________ E90 - 330i Arctic Metallic -> X3 M40i (Soon)
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04-27-2006, 11:08 PM	#7
youngtechman Private First Class 18 Rep 122 Posts Drives: 330i -> X3 M40i Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	I got my at AutoHaus. I just don't like the sales manager at T&C........deal with him long time ago, very bad. __________________ E90 - 330i Arctic Metallic -> X3 M40i (Soon)
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04-27-2006, 11:25 PM	#8
325er Banned 2 Rep 135 Posts Drives: 325i Jet Blk Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	I know sombody inside T&C. I have it on good authority that the Chinese salesmen in there do nothing but screw their Chinese cutomers all day long. To quote him "....they try to get rich off every deal. They have no problem screwing their fellow Chinese because they know they have their trust...." So I'm not too surprised by your experience. I got a full 4% off MRSP at T&C plus other bonuses....I bet you barely got 1%.
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04-27-2006, 11:33 PM	#9
PersonaNonGrata Private First Class 83 Rep 157 Posts Drives: 2020 M340i Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	I agree with others who have said that the rates are locked in when you ordered. That is how it was explained to me. My sales manager told me that I would be locked in and if the rates go down, I can take advantage of that but I would do no worse than the rate at the time the order was placed. They're just trying to squeeze some cash out of you.
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04-28-2006, 02:41 AM	#12
Xtype0 Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 298 Posts Drives: E90 335xi Special Edition Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E90 335xi [0.00]	I got mine at T&C and I do find that their quality of service is somewhat lacking to say the least. They have a very uptight attidude similar to a superiority complex when dealing with customers. Its almost like they don't really need our business at T&C, atleast that was the way I felt. Its funny how they undermine each other too. My sales rep says that the "sales manager" that FashionChef is dealing with, just gave himself the title due to his seniority in the business, and that he isn't really a sales manager. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I"m just repeating what my rep said. Anyways, I'll be picking up the car next week, hope they didn't screw anything up on my order, else I'll be really upset and I will either go to another dealer or another brand completely.
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04-28-2006, 09:38 AM	#13
Juve29 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 324 Posts Drives: 325i titanium silver spk Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Montréal, Canada iTrader: (0)	Like I mentioned on previous post my dealer send me off to drive in the snow with summer tire. He could have delivered the car on another day or at least tell me that the car was not equipped with all season tires. When they have to make a sell they have to make the sell. You have to remember that the salesman works for his commission. The customer is not important. Whats important is making money (especially BMW).
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04-28-2006, 10:05 AM	#15
SignHere Supreme Omnipotent Bobohead 2 Rep 30 Posts Drives: Different BMW's every day! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Austin TX iTrader: (0)	Whew! Lots of arrows being slung here. FashionChef, my advice is to call the salesperson and express your displeasure at his request and find out if he is trying to get this sale in April for whatever reason, or if in fact the rate and residual cannot be locked in for 2 weeks. If he is trying to push the deal into April for his bonuses, perhaps you can negotiate the closing date early and receive something as compensation. If not, sign and feel good that he was smart enough to call you and lock in your deal rather than spring it on you at the last minute. In Texas we are able to lock in a customer's rate an residual with BMW FS for a maximum of 60 days for on-order vehicles, this may not be the case with other regions. __________________ Currently seeking time off for good behavior.
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04-28-2006, 11:01 AM	#18
ashecnc In the delivery business :) 25 Rep 991 Posts Drives: '06 325i Jet Black/Black Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Asheville, NC (mountains) Blue Ridge Parkway iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 325i [0.00] 2006 325i [0.00]	If I remember, my deal was locked in for 60 days, I can't remember the exacts, it may have been longer. I think he could extend it. So no matter what happened to rates or specials, I still got what I was promised on day one . Keep us posted! __________________ Born 10/05 '06 325i Jet Black, Black, Sport Package, Xenon's, Heated Seats & Power, Sat. Prep, Rear Spoiler, Chrome Tips, Blacklines, Chrome Grills, 19" M5 wheels NO MORE run flats, drives like a dream now
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04-28-2006, 11:19 AM	#19
stressdoc Moderator 618 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	Blam & SignHere are making good points. It was pretty clear that interest rates (& lease resids) were going up and up this year. If you locked in a rate, you locked in a rate, but you had better have it in writing. I had a house mortgage firm try and weasel out of a locked rate on me once, it was not fun, the creep was clearly betting rates were going the other way and was hoping to make a few points. He was wrong and it cost him. If the SA wants to make a sale for the end of the month, fine, use it to your advantage. But keep it on friendly terms!
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04-28-2006, 11:22 AM	#20
Asiann Got Seoul? 116 Rep 2,862 Posts Drives: 2012 535i MSport Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Honolulu iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 BMW 535i [0.00] 2008 750Li [0.00] 2006 BMW [0.00]	Always go with your gut feeling! Sounds like you should stay away from the deal and get your money back and go somewhere else. __________________ Can you say Alooooha? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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04-28-2006, 01:03 PM	#22
larryn Lieutenant General 2148 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	Three things... 1.) Your lease cannot be signed retroactively. If you start it today, you're paying for a car you do not have, and your next payment will be due in a month from today. 2.) If you cancel the check you provided them as a deposit, you break the contract, and they CAN impose new rates on you, even if there was a lock. 3.) Strange that this is occurring right at the end of the month, when the do-or-die sales targets are needing to be met.
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