Yeah, that's gotta be an install issue dude. If it were me, I'd want to pull the strut, at least partially, and make sure that those plate are on/oriented correctly.

Also, what strut bar is that? Has that been removed to make sure it isn't making any of the strut bolts bind, etc. before tightening?

[serotoninsteve]

They did not pay attention to the orientation when bringing the camberplates up to get the screws into the bodie's hats.
Basically you have 3 positions you can insert them as the studs have the same distance one from each other.
First the OEM top mounts have an orientation to the car, then the plates need to be mounted in the correct orientation to the top mounts
and the whole assembly needs to be inserted correctly into the top hats.
Your caster is also slightly off on one side as it seems.

You wrote 1.6Deg camber should be the goal, but usually you already get that much with the M3 bits alone.
Using these plates you'll get additional 0.7Deg, so 2.3Deg on both sides should make more sense?

[avocet]

something isn't adding up(obviously). looking at the plate, it seems to be in the correct position relative to the nuts and the center of the strut.

were your control arms new? if you can, you should try and get in there with a measuring tape and record the length of your arms and compare left to right.

I am inclined to suspect something is bent.

[Cloud9blue]

The strut bar is the BMW performance aluminum strut bar. I checked the 6 o'clock blot that is holding on to the strut bar, it has been moved the same distance as the other two bolts, suggesting the alignment was done more or less correctly without the strut bar binding anything.

Control arms are brand new TRW ones bought from ECS tuning. I even used new hardware for all control arms.

Looking at my alignment spec sheet again, I noticed the caster was also quite off prior to the actual alignment. Here is the full sheet btw, notice the before alignment caster was at 7.1 on the driver side. But apparently that was brought back to spec during the alignment, but not the camber...

So this lead me to believe there are

1. The Dinan camber plate or the strut top assembly wasn't mounted correctly (the guys who did the install have done the exact same setup before though with no problem)
2. New control arm was bent to begin with
3. The spindle is bent (very unlikely as I would have noticed it the extra camber and resulting wheel gape before when I just changed my wheels a few weeks ago, and I haven't hit any major pothole nor impact to the wheel on that side of the car before)
4. The new BMW performance strut is bent (however, the car handles beautiful when pushed hard in corner)

I will have the other alignment shop check the SAI angle and measure the specs on both of the control arm, that should show if there is anything bent. If nothing is wrong with any of the parts, I will have the shop pulled the driver strut off and check the strut mount was done correctly.

[Cloud9blue]

Also, I believe 1.5-2 degree of negative camber is what should be expected with my setup.

Pulled alignment pin 0.3-0.5
M3 control arms 0.5-0.7
Dinan camber plate 0.5-0.7
Total approx. 1.5

There is no way you can have -2.6 with a properly done setup and definitely not the -3.2 degree from the pre-alignment measurement.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Well, not exactly...your math is also assuming that the car is set to 0* of camber stock, which isn't really the case. Going by your spec sheet (assuming they are BMW numbers specific to your exact application) the car should already have ~-1* of negative camber when it rolls off the assembly line. Add in the pulled pins, upgraded arms, etc. and you're definitely in the <-2.5* range; even when assuming conservative deltas.

Hey Cobra, think you are confusing the stock M3 alignment spec with the non-m e90. Here is the factory spec for performance suspension.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Not really...I was just going off the sheet that you attached in your previous post, which showed a MINIMUM of -1.1* camber up front. This new sheet you linked showed a minimum of -1.25* of camber ... Here's what I'm getting at: that spec should be achieved without touching the car at all. Add in your mods and you should easily be able to achieve more then -2* of camber.

Did you ever get the car aligned when it was bone stock? If so, how much camber did it show up front?

If I were to add those three pieces of hardware to my car, on a conservative scale, I'd get:
Pulled alignment pin -0.3
M3 control arms -0.5
Dinan camber plate -0.5
= -1.3* of camber ... IN ADDITION TO the -0.4* of camber AS THE CAR SITS BONE STOCK = Grand Total -1.7*

You keep stating that the approximate total with all those parts is ~-1.5* but you're not taking into account what the car already sits at bone stock.

Cobra, you are looking at the rear camber specs... This whole thread is about the front camber...

My old sheet shows -0.1 to -0.3 for the stock front camber. The new sheet says -33' +/- 30' for the front.

Appreciate your effort, but please do a search on the other threads regarding front camber setup. The stock suspension allows for very min. negative camber on our cars.

[David1]

High probability of installation error..... Pull it apart and redo it, at least on the one side.

Shit You right...apparently I can't read today lol That, plus assuming that cars with "sport" suspension had more camber up front from the factory, some how, was what did me in. I'll go back and remove my gibberish so as not to further confuse this thread.

Having cleared that up, my other arguments still stand; you're just not starting out with as much camber up front as I originally hypothesized. It looks like from previous alignments up front you can expect ~-0.2* of camber from the factory. That, plus your parts, should put you very close to -2* of camber...UP FRONT...as you already mentioned.

Either way, I bet those Dinan plates are put in wrong. There's no other way around it.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Shit You right...apparently I can't read today lol That, plus assuming that cars with "sport" suspension had more camber up front from the factory, some how, was what did me in. I'll go back and remove my gibberish so as not to further confuse this thread.

Having cleared that up, my other arguments still stand; you're just not starting out with as much camber up front as I originally hypothesized. It looks like from previous alignments up front you can expect ~-0.2* of camber from the factory. That, plus your parts, should put you very close to -2* of camber...UP FRONT...as you already mentioned.

Either way, I bet those Dinan plates are put in wrong. There's no other way around it.

Not a problem Cobra! I agree that close to -2* of front camber is expected, and I actually requested -1.9*, but I think the alignment shop got lazy and didn't dial in the passenger side other than the toe. Will see what the other race alignment shop will say tomorrow. But I will definitely have the front driver strut pulled and check the top mount assembly.

[Cloud9blue]

Alright, the previous alignment shop messed up. The driver side is actually sitting at -1.9, while is passenger side is at -2.7. Their machine must be not setup correctly. Toe was off on the rear axis as well.

The shop who did the alignment today bought the passenger side strut out, now the cambers on both side are at -2.0 (Cobra, you are correct about the total camber), and the strut bolts are at the same place on both sides.

[David1]

I am still amazed by the amount of techs that still to this day can not align a car.

Glad you got it figured out! Since the numbers were originally reversed, your pics of the plates up front make much more sense now.

What's the MOST camber you think you can duplicate on both sides up front now? What I'm getting at is, I wonder if adding the Dinan plates was necessary in order to achieve the -2* of camber you were looking for.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Glad you got it figured out! Since the numbers were originally reversed, your pics of the plates up front make much more sense now.

What's the MOST camber you think you can duplicate on both sides up front now? What I'm getting at is, I wonder if adding the Dinan plates was necessary in order to achieve the -2* of camber you were looking for.

The most is approx. -2.5 to -2.7 I would say, after everything else is aligned. Looking back now Dinan plate might not be necessary for the camber that I am trying to achieve, but it is good to have more room to play around once the autocross season starts in two weeks. Now that I just have to get the front tires replaced... Who knows they can start dry rotting in just 4 years.

[avocet]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

Alright, the previous alignment shop messed up. The driver side is actually sitting at -1.9, while is passenger side is at -2.7. Their machine must be not setup correctly. Toe was off on the rear axis as well.

The shop who did the alignment today bought the passenger side strut out, now the cambers on both side are at -2.0 (Cobra, you are correct about the total camber), and the strut bolts are at the same place on both sides.

Nice! An easy fix.