Anyone install a Walbro 400 or 455 LPFP for use e85?

[Dosturbos]

Just curious to see what needs to be done to the housing for this fuel pump to fit correctly.
Any and all help is more than appreciated.

Thanks!

[Freon]

I read some speculation before that the low pressure pump was at least a contributing issue to the high pressure pump failing, but can't remember that ever being truly fleshed out with evidence. It seems newer high pressure pumps are surviving.

I'm not sure what upgrading the LPFP will do for you.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by Freon

I read some speculation before that the low pressure pump was at least a contributing issue to the high pressure pump failing, but can't remember that ever being truly fleshed out with evidence. It seems newer high pressure pumps are surviving.

I'm not sure what upgrading the LPFP will do for you.

What he wants to do isn't prolonging/band-aiding the HPFP. Either he wants to run a HIGH concentration of ethanol or he's shooting for some BIG hp.

Vargas turbo tech is running a walboro 255 in their stage 3 GTx28 test car and it's working fantastic from what Tony has said. Now, keep in mind that i haven't done this mod(no need) so i can't tell you anything beyond what i've seen other do.

Here's the install procedure Tony described:

Ok so got the parallel rig put together and installed. Its honestly pretty straight forward. You have to leave out the stock pump holder, and rotate the stock pump slightly so the venturi nozzle is not in its holder just slightly off to the side. This will allow the Walbro to share the bucket with it, while the venturi still pulls from its original location. Once you do that the Walbro with its sock will fit into the bucket with the stock pump and they actually stay in place very well. Once you get the bucket lid back in place you will see if will not fit now, but all you have to is cut out a small section and it clears both pumps great. If you secure the bucket top with a couple wire ties you are good to go. I just powered both pumps in tandem off the stock plug, if this is an issue and it pops fuses we will have to address it then. Once you get to the lines its just 5/16" fuel line coming off both pump out lets fed around the collapsible leg and coming into a 5/16" Tee. Secure it all with clamps and this will be going to the orange line. I put some extra hose on the orange line to give it a little freedom to move in the tank so not to pinch anything. It all fits back in pretty nice and seems like it should work well. Took a few pics. But not too many. Now we at least hopefully wont have to worry about low fuel pressure once we get stage 3 installed. Cheers

and here is what Tony said about how it's performing:

Stock pump is still hooked up to the siphon. I have not run the car low on gas and honestly if have a car capable of over 600HP if you get below 1/8 a tank making any full power runs is not a good idea in case of fuel starvation. Just keep fuel in the car and no issues. But I do not forsee any, the stock pump is still hooked up to the siphon. And to be honest, the pumps work even better than I had hoped. The two pumps overwhelm the stock regulator, BUT only as voltage increases with RPM. So you get the 72-73 psi most of the time, but as RPM comes up and voltage rises, it will push past the regulator go up to anywhere from 80-95 PSI at depending on RPM and volatge. Basically I am getting the benefits of a boost a pump or a boost referenced regulator. A pleasant surprise to say the least. It sets a LPFP code as the requested does not match actual, but it never sets a check engine light, its just a dormant code.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by Dosturbos

Just curious to see what needs to be done to the housing for this fuel pump to fit correctly.
Any and all help is more than appreciated.

Thanks!

Here you go.

Originally Posted by Freon

I read some speculation before that the low pressure pump was at least a contributing issue to the high pressure pump failing, but can't remember that ever being truly fleshed out with evidence. It seems newer high pressure pumps are surviving.

I'm not sure what upgrading the LPFP will do for you.

If you're not making >400hp or running high percentages of E85 (in which case you're making >400hp) then you probably don't need it.

The log below shows mine struggling!



...and yes, my trims are high and now that I've done my intake cleaning, they're even higher....backend flash arrives tomorrow...Walbro 255lph (inline option) pump arrives later this week.


Edit: Hahaha..while I was editing an image, looks like somebody beat me to it...NICE!

[deploytosave]

rocking teh 450 at the moment... not exactly an easy swap

[AB M2C]

have a walbro 400 on my evo 8 no complaints with it. Its running full e85 and i'm almost positive its sends more fuel into that car than we will in one of these. No squeals or whines with it yet, I'd say go for it. All of this is experience from my evo 8 though so no guarantees it will translate over to the 1 series.

[Ænema]

Honestly, unless you're running over e30 or something bigger than hybrid turbos it's not going to be necessary. Of course, you'll need to run Cobb as a base flash to get around the limitations of O2 sensor biasing.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by ThatOneKid

have a walbro 400 on my evo 8 no complaints with it. Its running full e85 and i'm almost positive its sends more fuel into that car than we will in one of these. No squeals or whines with it yet, I'd say go for it. All of this is experience from my evo 8 though so no guarantees it will translate over to the 1 series.

The 455 is being run on cars that are running bigger turbos (RBs) and heavy concentrations of E85...until you get to numbers not yet achieved by the N54....the 455 is shown to be plenty sufficient.

Not only that, those 255's in parallel pull how many amps? The parallel pump option (especially two 255s) isn't needed and only serves to complicate the install/decrease the capacity of the pump holder. Besides, two 255's in parallel up the flow...not pressure (but may at the HPFP?)...unless the pumps are wired in parallel...then the amperage???? and you'de be limited by the diameter of the fuel line. On top of that...a "T" fitting....really? I'd think that'd be a bit counter productive...especially when it comes to pressure and pump load.

[Freon]

SteveAZ,
I'm not sure what you are pointing out there in your logs. Is that pointing to the +5-6% "trims" line? If so, that's really far from conclusive. Go log the same setup again in 2 weeks when it is colder or warmer. My car was reading +5% just a few days ago when I was logging with straight 93 octane and the Cobb "sport" tune. I bet if I check again in a few days when the weather is different it will shift, especially with the N54 speed-density fueling program which is a giant calibration nightmare.

Adding ethanol to your tank will make your car go lean if you don't reprogram enough additional injector pulse for the lower stoichiometric ratio.

There are a LOT of things going on here, so pointing to a trim line and jumping straight to "LPFP issue!" seems like a leap to me.

[Ænema]

He's referring to LPFP pressure actual. Once you start running over 40% ethanol(in most cases, some cars can go as high as 50%) the LPFP can't keep up with the requested 72psi. With the way he has it graphed it's a little hard to pick out, but if you were to look at in a spreadsheet it becomes obvious.

[JZWBMW]

Originally Posted by Ænema

Honestly, unless you're running over e30 or something bigger than hybrid turbos it's not going to be necessary. Of course, you'll need to run Cobb as a base flash to get around the limitations of O2 sensor biasing.

I too have this option now at a lower price :-)

I can get to every single map in the software, I change quite a few things that Cobb does not pick up, some things not correct in the descriptions too, must have been lost in the German translation.

JZW

[JZWBMW]

Originally Posted by Ænema

He's referring to LPFP pressure actual. Once you start running over 40% ethanol(in most cases, some cars can go as high as 50%) the LPFP can't keep up with the requested 72psi. With the way he has it graphed it's a little hard to pick out, but if you were to look at in a spreadsheet it becomes obvious.

I am going to full E85 on my car soon, what about the aeromotive pump? We use those on the big hp versions in the Saab world and I wonder if that would do a better job. I have had lots of issues with the Walbro 255 pumps, lots of Chinese copies and pumps not lasting more than a day or two to six months. I now run the Bosch 044 in my 800bhp race car, but that is a lot bigger pump. Thinking about this Aeromotive pump possibly.

JZW

[Dosturbos]

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to be running a 50/50 E85 and 93 Octane mixture using a Cobb Pro tuning platform via accessport. My tuner is well versed with this set up. I wasnt sure if I could just replace the stock lpfp, easily, with the Walbro into the fuel bucket without incident.
I ran a DW300 with my WRX when I was stage 3, it was a nightmare to get the pump into the fuel bucket without serious modification.
I am FBO with full catless exhaust. I have seen others with similar setups hit 450whp and 500tq.
I'd get the vishnu set up but 600 bucks is way too much.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by Freon

SteveAZ,
I'm not sure what you are pointing out there in your logs. Is that pointing to the +5-6% "trims" line? If so, that's really far from conclusive. Go log the same setup again in 2 weeks when it is colder or warmer. My car was reading +5% just a few days ago when I was logging with straight 93 octane and the Cobb "sport" tune. I bet if I check again in a few days when the weather is different it will shift, especially with the N54 speed-density fueling program which is a giant calibration nightmare.

Adding ethanol to your tank will make your car go lean if you don't reprogram enough additional injector pulse for the lower stoichiometric ratio.

There are a LOT of things going on here, so pointing to a trim line and jumping straight to "LPFP issue!" seems like a leap to me.

Sorry...didn't think about the fact that the LPFP is labeled as oil temp....Terry really needs to make that adjustable as numerous parameters can be logged under "oil temp".

Anyway, you can see on that graph, the gray line my arrow is pointing to is LPFP pressure and it is dropping below 50psi. That is what I was trying to illustrate.

And yes, as I said...the 455 will be sufficient for your setup Dosturbos.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by JZWBMW

I am going to full E85 on my car soon, what about the aeromotive pump? We use those on the big hp versions in the Saab world and I wonder if that would do a better job. I have had lots of issues with the Walbro 255 pumps, lots of Chinese copies and pumps not lasting more than a day or two to six months. I now run the Bosch 044 in my 800bhp race car, but that is a lot bigger pump. Thinking about this Aeromotive pump possibly.

JZW

The main thing about the pump is that it has to be able to maintain 72psi, although in a parallel setup it's a lot easier task. There are quite a few aftermarket pumps that aren't rated to run at 72psi constantly so just keep that in mind when picking a pump.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by Ænema

The main thing about the pump is that it has to be able to maintain 72psi, although in a parallel setup it's a lot easier task. There are quite a few aftermarket pumps that aren't rated to run at 72psi constantly so just keep that in mind when picking a pump.

Series = > pressure
Parallel = > flow

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

Series = > pressure
Parallel = > flow

No doubt about that, but running two pumps in parallel is still going to make it easier on each individual pump.

[SteveAZ]

Here is 450rwhp "running a JB4, BMS E85 flash, our downpipes, DCI, and the $95 "Option2" inline fuel pump upgrade. It's a manual transmission, has the factory intercooler, and factory midcats & catback. Fuel mix was E50."

[SteveAZ]

Here is a great example of a fuel system (running E40) that can't keep up

Flashed my car today and went to do a couple logs...yeah right..good news...255 will be here tomorrow, we'll see how it does!



I think between doing my valve cleaning last week and the new fuel requirements of the flash...no bueno!

Reminder: LPFP is under "oil temp"

Hopefully it's not the fuel pump...if so...I guess I'll be replacing that to

[SteveAZ]

New 255 inline pump installed...no dismantling of the LPFP bucket and this is running E50/91.

As before LPFP is under oil, or is the bottom line. Starts seem better initially as well...will know more in a couple days.

[Dosturbos]

Just wanted to let everyone know that since I installed the Walbro 400 pump 3 weeks ago, I have yet to get the HPFP plausibility code, as well as the fuel mixture and left bank too lean codes I was getting before. I am currently running on 93 but will be getting tuned for e85 in the next couple of weeks.
The car idles much more smoothly now and pulls awesome.

[JZWBMW]

This is good news. I want to make my own complete E85 tune for my car and be able to offer people the full on E85 tune for a much cheaper price than the Cobb unit. I got a great 35whp with just E30, so full on E85 would be awesome. I am going to get this pump, install it and make a full on E85 tune !

Nice looking graph by the way, very smooth power line. 13.0 is still maybe a little lean in my opinion, but it is full on E85, so its probably fine. That is where I tune them when I want the setting on KILL

JZW