P20EE/4D16 Metering Valve clogged No Start 200 miles

forcedair33 · 02-04-2015, 01:35 PM

Hello all this is my first post. Have a 2011 335d and a 2011 335i sedan. Love both the cars. Wife drives the D. Let me start off by saying I am in California and I have the ability to get around smog but I want to try to make this work unless it gets too costly. If I gets too costly I will probably rip out the entire SCR/DPF/DEF tanks. I have heard of some horror stories about the costly repairs these cars can have relating to the Diesel emission systems. I believe after hearing all the stories of others that BMW just hasn't designed a well enough system and it is plagued with issues. My goal is to try and make it work as long as I can. Car in question has 69,071 miles (still under 7/70k emissions in California). We purchased the car with 61k miles and have already had to replace the bank 1 Oxygen Sensor and the Front Nox sensor. I have access to a lift/tools and BMW Icom software so anything that needs to be done can be done without going to the dealer unless its free. About 400 miles ago we got a SES light for P20EE or 4D16 which relates to deNOx efficiency. Then two days ago my wife called and said the "No start in 200 miles" came on. After reading some post online I figured I was low on DEF fluid and the metering valve could be clogged. I bought the BMW 1/2 gallon bottle and 4 more gallons from Pep boys and put in about 3 gallons in the top tank and about 1.5 gallons in the lower tank. I think the upper is the passive and the bottom is the active. I also just read that topping them off is bad. I didn't see that before I topped them off but I don't think that is my problem. I removed the Urea Metering Valve this morning and it was clogged up with dried crystals. (see photos). Cleaned it out and tested it with the car on and the valve plugged into the connector and it sprayed urea so I know the metering valve is working. Installed everything cleared the SES light and drove the car about 20 miles and the "No start" light is still on. So far the P20EE is gone but will need to drive more to make sure. I have also read that when the metering valve is clogged it can cause the rear Nox sensor to go bad but I am going to wait until the SES light comes back on for that. The issue I have is I only have about 100 miles until the car will not start. Should I take it to BMW and have them figure it out under the emissions? keep in mind BMW did not cover the front 02 sensor and Nox sensor under the 7/70k emissions so I have no faith in them. I also just read in another post that the "no start in 200 miles" means that the system is not detecting the correct fluid or any fluid at all. I will have access to the Icom software later on from a friend. Is this something that will not go off on its own? Or will I need to drive more? Any help is appreciated. I am going to drive it another 40 miles at lunch today and hope for the best.

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TorqueAddict · 02-04-2015, 03:21 PM

I think your car should be covered under California's Emission Warranty.

forcedair33 · 02-04-2015, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorqueAddict

I think your car should be covered under California's Emission Warranty.

SES back on for P207F "Reductant Quality Performance"

Appointment setup with SA Friday morning.

9mmkungfu · 02-04-2015, 05:46 PM

Ironically I pulled mine today as well and found the same build up everyone else seems to have.

forcedair33 · 02-04-2015, 06:38 PM

9mmkungfoo, Did you have any SES codes? Hard to tell from the photo you posted but I don't see any white crystals in there. Was it full of carbon/soot?

This car is starting to get to me. I run a car dealership/service shop and understand what it means owning a BMW especially out of warranty. Most stuff I can deal with but this Diesel SCR/DEF/DPF Alphabetical nonsense is getting the best of me. Maybe I am reading all the horror stories and not seeing all the post on how happy people are with their D.

Anyone in Socal that can tune out the all the emissions? Think the EGR needs to go as well. Once I get the emissions figured out I am going to pull the EGR/intake and soak the intake in a Seafoam bath and use our Walnut blaster for the rest. With 69k miles I am sure its due for carbon cleaning. Really trying to justifying keeping this car.

9mmkungfu · 02-04-2015, 08:23 PM

I did have a P20ee generic OBD2 code which translated to a BMW-specific 4D16 code (SCR efficiency).

Sorry about the crappy photo. That was taken after most of it had been removed and the cone-shaped buildup was present as well.

135i_vs_ · 02-05-2015, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mmkungfu

I did have a P20ee generic OBD2 code which translated to a BMW-specific 4D16 code (SCR efficiency).

Sorry about the crappy photo. That was taken after most of it had been removed and the cone-shaped buildup was present as well.

To fix my P20EE, the dealer replaced NOx sensors (did not fix the code), replaced the SCR pipe (fixed the problem). The SCR pipe was under emissions warranty 08/80,000.

forcedair33 · 02-09-2015, 12:36 AM

SA called. Replacing rear Nox sensor under emissions warranty. Advised them to drive the car after the install to confirm the SES light stays off. Picking up Tuesday.

Hoooper · 02-09-2015, 10:17 AM

Attached is a PDF that has the warranty info, with page 42 being the CA specific emissions warranty with the covered parts listed. NOx is one of them. I would say if it turns out the urea injector needs work and they dont want to cover it, just call another dealer and take it there to get covered. Some dealers dont seem to like performing warranty work, while others do, and it sounds like you have found one that doesnt.

http://www.chapmanbmw.com/PDF/servic...ty_booklet.pdf

9mmkungfu · 02-10-2015, 05:49 AM

It's been almost a week and 500+ miles and my 4D16 "SCR efficiency" code has not returned since the metering valve was cleaned. I don't think it's going to come back any time soon as it would usually come back on about one or two days after being cleared.

forcedair33 · 02-13-2015, 07:02 PM

Thanks guys. SA called Tuesday night to say the nox sensor did not fix the problem. He stated they needed authorization to fill up the fuel tank at $6/gallon!. Dropped the car off with a half a tank! I don't have time to go there and fill it up myself so with hesitation I agreed. Not sure why i should pay for their test plans but I'm not going to complain too much. I recommended they replace the SCR pipe. Haven't heard back yet. At least I have a loaner.

forcedair33 · 02-13-2015, 07:22 PM

SA texted me they that the mechanic won't provide any new codes. Only said SES light was back on and had to drive the car for 1 hour straight going 65mph. That is near impossible to do in LA unless it's late at night.

Hoooper thanks for that link. I've had a throttle body code since I bought the car. Last time it was at the dealer they wanted to charge me to replace it.. I sent my SA a picture of page 42 showing that it should be covered.

bvanlieu · 02-17-2015, 08:45 PM

My turn to play pin the tail on the P20EE.

Rear NOX replaced already, came back on few hundred miles later. Dealer has had car past few days and I mentioned to the SA that others have had a few issues here with this code, sometimes its SCR related, pipe, etc...

They think it may be the 'computer' now. I didn't probe as to which computer are you referring to...just letting them work it. I don't know all the parts in the system, but some quick poking and there is an SCR supply module.

Be interesting to see what they end up replacing tomorrow and if they rid this code once and for all. As much as I like this car, I'm having some doubts about post 100K ownership of her. Heck, 70K

- b

forcedair33 · 02-18-2015, 01:16 PM

I believe it is software related as well.

Still no word back from BMW after replacing rear Nox. They have had the car for 16 days now.

forcedair33 · 02-18-2015, 06:27 PM

SA says they have a master tech coming in to try and figure it out. So far all I can get out of them is the SES light will not go off after replacing both nox sensors. I have suggested they replace the SCR pipe and retest. The saga continues.....

ingenieur · 02-18-2015, 08:14 PM

It is not a software issue.
As defined by the US agencies and described in the diagnostics - these are permanent fault codes which will only clear once the DDE recognizes that the SCR system is operating as required once repaired. This may take an hour or so of driving to achieve and then the check control message will go out.

forcedair33 · 02-24-2015, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ingenieur

It is not a software issue.
As defined by the US agencies and described in the diagnostics - these are permanent fault codes which will only clear once the DDE recognizes that the SCR system is operating as required once repaired. This may take an hour or so of driving to achieve and then the check control message will go out.

Great info! Thanks. The car is still at BMW. No word from my SA on what is going on. My wife has put about 1200 miles on the loaner car so I am not complaining...

335ddd · 02-24-2015, 10:48 PM

Today I was driving to my dealer for a brake fluid maintenance and got the same code on a steady 180 mile drive. Dealer replaced nox sensors. Drove back 180 miles and no cel as of yet. Hoping this weekend for a long drive (200 miles each way) and seeing if it comes back since it sounds like it can be other things. 2011 with 41k miles. Anyways why would sensors fail so quick ?

Crawler · 02-25-2015, 12:54 PM

How hard is it to remove that urea metering valve. It seems like a cleaning every 25K would reduce the interval between NOX sensor problems/failures.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

J

335ddd · 02-25-2015, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335ddd

Today I was driving to my dealer for a brake fluid maintenance and got the same code on a steady 180 mile drive. Dealer replaced nox sensors. Drove back 180 miles and no cel as of yet. Hoping this weekend for a long drive (200 miles each way) and seeing if it comes back since it sounds like it can be other things. 2011 with 41k miles. Anyways why would sensors fail so quick ?

my repair was short lived. today CEL with the same code.
i swear dealers love wasting money on sensors

9mmkungfu · 02-26-2015, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawler

How hard is it to remove that urea metering valve. It seems like a cleaning every 25K would reduce the interval between NOX sensor problems/failures.

It's fairly simple: remove underbody cladding, unbolt metering valve and clean it out. Reverse process for reinstallation.

After a couple of weeks without having the code, mine did end up coming back (4D16 - SCR efficiency).

At this point, I have exhausted all of the low-cost/no-cost options for eliminating the code and will just wait for my tune.

forcedair33 · 03-03-2015, 02:58 PM

Finally got the car back. Dealer replaced both Nox sensors only. I can't believe it takes 30 days to replaced two nox sensors. I believe there are other issues that are not being disclosed. On the initial paperwork my SA texted me was that the DEF tank was replaced. Then later stated they had to put that on the warranty claim to justify their extra labor cost for test plans. I got the car back with 350 added miles. Picked up the car with 69,505 miles. Now have 69,900 with no CEL. Once I hit 70k I am out of emissions coverage. My wife loves the car but I explained to her that if we keep it all the emissions/EGR is being removed and coded out. I can get around smog in CA. Either that or we sell the car.

02-04-2015, 01:35 PM	#1
forcedair33 Enlisted Member 3 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ZMZ, 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	P20EE/4D16 Metering Valve clogged No Start 200 miles Hello all this is my first post. Have a 2011 335d and a 2011 335i sedan. Love both the cars. Wife drives the D. Let me start off by saying I am in California and I have the ability to get around smog but I want to try to make this work unless it gets too costly. If I gets too costly I will probably rip out the entire SCR/DPF/DEF tanks. I have heard of some horror stories about the costly repairs these cars can have relating to the Diesel emission systems. I believe after hearing all the stories of others that BMW just hasn't designed a well enough system and it is plagued with issues. My goal is to try and make it work as long as I can. Car in question has 69,071 miles (still under 7/70k emissions in California). We purchased the car with 61k miles and have already had to replace the bank 1 Oxygen Sensor and the Front Nox sensor. I have access to a lift/tools and BMW Icom software so anything that needs to be done can be done without going to the dealer unless its free. About 400 miles ago we got a SES light for P20EE or 4D16 which relates to deNOx efficiency. Then two days ago my wife called and said the "No start in 200 miles" came on. After reading some post online I figured I was low on DEF fluid and the metering valve could be clogged. I bought the BMW 1/2 gallon bottle and 4 more gallons from Pep boys and put in about 3 gallons in the top tank and about 1.5 gallons in the lower tank. I think the upper is the passive and the bottom is the active. I also just read that topping them off is bad. I didn't see that before I topped them off but I don't think that is my problem. I removed the Urea Metering Valve this morning and it was clogged up with dried crystals. (see photos). Cleaned it out and tested it with the car on and the valve plugged into the connector and it sprayed urea so I know the metering valve is working. Installed everything cleared the SES light and drove the car about 20 miles and the "No start" light is still on. So far the P20EE is gone but will need to drive more to make sure. I have also read that when the metering valve is clogged it can cause the rear Nox sensor to go bad but I am going to wait until the SES light comes back on for that. The issue I have is I only have about 100 miles until the car will not start. Should I take it to BMW and have them figure it out under the emissions? keep in mind BMW did not cover the front 02 sensor and Nox sensor under the 7/70k emissions so I have no faith in them. I also just read in another post that the "no start in 200 miles" means that the system is not detecting the correct fluid or any fluid at all. I will have access to the Icom software later on from a friend. Is this something that will not go off on its own? Or will I need to drive more? Any help is appreciated. I am going to drive it another 40 miles at lunch today and hope for the best. [IMG][/IMG]
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02-04-2015, 03:21 PM	#2
TorqueAddict Lieutenant 171 Rep 504 Posts Drives: 340i - 335D Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Barrie, ON iTrader: (0)	I think your car should be covered under California's Emission Warranty.
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02-04-2015, 05:46 PM	#4
9mmkungfu Captain 198 Rep 845 Posts Drives: 335d, 535d, 750i, X5 35d Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	Ironically I pulled mine today as well and found the same build up everyone else seems to have. Attached Images
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02-04-2015, 06:38 PM	#5
forcedair33 Enlisted Member 3 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ZMZ, 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	9mmkungfoo, Did you have any SES codes? Hard to tell from the photo you posted but I don't see any white crystals in there. Was it full of carbon/soot? This car is starting to get to me. I run a car dealership/service shop and understand what it means owning a BMW especially out of warranty. Most stuff I can deal with but this Diesel SCR/DEF/DPF Alphabetical nonsense is getting the best of me. Maybe I am reading all the horror stories and not seeing all the post on how happy people are with their D. Anyone in Socal that can tune out the all the emissions? Think the EGR needs to go as well. Once I get the emissions figured out I am going to pull the EGR/intake and soak the intake in a Seafoam bath and use our Walnut blaster for the rest. With 69k miles I am sure its due for carbon cleaning. Really trying to justifying keeping this car.
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02-04-2015, 08:23 PM	#6
9mmkungfu Captain 198 Rep 845 Posts Drives: 335d, 535d, 750i, X5 35d Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	I did have a P20ee generic OBD2 code which translated to a BMW-specific 4D16 code (SCR efficiency). Sorry about the crappy photo. That was taken after most of it had been removed and the cone-shaped buildup was present as well.
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02-09-2015, 12:36 AM	#8
forcedair33 Enlisted Member 3 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ZMZ, 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	SA called. Replacing rear Nox sensor under emissions warranty. Advised them to drive the car after the install to confirm the SES light stays off. Picking up Tuesday.
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02-09-2015, 10:17 AM	#9
Hoooper Colonel 213 Rep 2,210 Posts Drives: 335D Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Petaluma, CA iTrader: (0)	Attached is a PDF that has the warranty info, with page 42 being the CA specific emissions warranty with the covered parts listed. NOx is one of them. I would say if it turns out the urea injector needs work and they dont want to cover it, just call another dealer and take it there to get covered. Some dealers dont seem to like performing warranty work, while others do, and it sounds like you have found one that doesnt. http://www.chapmanbmw.com/PDF/servic...ty_booklet.pdf
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02-10-2015, 05:49 AM	#10
9mmkungfu Captain 198 Rep 845 Posts Drives: 335d, 535d, 750i, X5 35d Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	It's been almost a week and 500+ miles and my 4D16 "SCR efficiency" code has not returned since the metering valve was cleaned. I don't think it's going to come back any time soon as it would usually come back on about one or two days after being cleared.
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02-13-2015, 07:02 PM	#11
forcedair33 Enlisted Member 3 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ZMZ, 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	Thanks guys. SA called Tuesday night to say the nox sensor did not fix the problem. He stated they needed authorization to fill up the fuel tank at $6/gallon!. Dropped the car off with a half a tank! I don't have time to go there and fill it up myself so with hesitation I agreed. Not sure why i should pay for their test plans but I'm not going to complain too much. I recommended they replace the SCR pipe. Haven't heard back yet. At least I have a loaner.
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02-13-2015, 07:22 PM	#12
forcedair33 Enlisted Member 3 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ZMZ, 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	SA texted me they that the mechanic won't provide any new codes. Only said SES light was back on and had to drive the car for 1 hour straight going 65mph. That is near impossible to do in LA unless it's late at night. Hoooper thanks for that link. I've had a throttle body code since I bought the car. Last time it was at the dealer they wanted to charge me to replace it.. I sent my SA a picture of page 42 showing that it should be covered.
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02-17-2015, 08:45 PM	#13
bvanlieu Second Lieutenant 57 Rep 268 Posts Drives: Alpine 335d Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: PA iTrader: (0)	My turn to play pin the tail on the P20EE. Rear NOX replaced already, came back on few hundred miles later. Dealer has had car past few days and I mentioned to the SA that others have had a few issues here with this code, sometimes its SCR related, pipe, etc... They think it may be the 'computer' now. I didn't probe as to which computer are you referring to...just letting them work it. I don't know all the parts in the system, but some quick poking and there is an SCR supply module. Be interesting to see what they end up replacing tomorrow and if they rid this code once and for all. As much as I like this car, I'm having some doubts about post 100K ownership of her. Heck, 70K - b
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02-18-2015, 01:16 PM	#14
forcedair33 Enlisted Member 3 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ZMZ, 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	I believe it is software related as well. Still no word back from BMW after replacing rear Nox. They have had the car for 16 days now.
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02-18-2015, 06:27 PM	#15
forcedair33 Enlisted Member 3 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ZMZ, 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	SA says they have a master tech coming in to try and figure it out. So far all I can get out of them is the SES light will not go off after replacing both nox sensors. I have suggested they replace the SCR pipe and retest. The saga continues.....
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02-24-2015, 10:48 PM	#18
335ddd Private First Class 8 Rep 180 Posts Drives: 2011 335D SE Join Date: May 2014 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	Today I was driving to my dealer for a brake fluid maintenance and got the same code on a steady 180 mile drive. Dealer replaced nox sensors. Drove back 180 miles and no cel as of yet. Hoping this weekend for a long drive (200 miles each way) and seeing if it comes back since it sounds like it can be other things. 2011 with 41k miles. Anyways why would sensors fail so quick ?
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02-25-2015, 12:54 PM	#19
Crawler Private 3 Rep 50 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Sandy Eggo CA iTrader: (0)	Additional scheduled maintenance How hard is it to remove that urea metering valve. It seems like a cleaning every 25K would reduce the interval between NOX sensor problems/failures. Thoughts? Cheers, J
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03-03-2015, 02:58 PM	#22
forcedair33 Enlisted Member 3 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ZMZ, 2011 335D Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	Finally got the car back. Dealer replaced both Nox sensors only. I can't believe it takes 30 days to replaced two nox sensors. I believe there are other issues that are not being disclosed. On the initial paperwork my SA texted me was that the DEF tank was replaced. Then later stated they had to put that on the warranty claim to justify their extra labor cost for test plans. I got the car back with 350 added miles. Picked up the car with 69,505 miles. Now have 69,900 with no CEL. Once I hit 70k I am out of emissions coverage. My wife loves the car but I explained to her that if we keep it all the emissions/EGR is being removed and coded out. I can get around smog in CA. Either that or we sell the car.
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