07 997 Carrera S or E92 M3?

NewSong · 03-12-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

The weight difference is not 600 pounds either, get your figures straight and stop spreading nonsense.

I've never dragged raced an M3 though I have spent time in a Carrera S. I doubt your heavy footing it like a monkey really tells the peak performance of either car unless you're a professional and had some really nice test equipment to validate your numbers.

Oh, and I hope you get your foot out of your mouth someday. I said 500-600 lbs difference based on my knowledge of both cars. So let's do the numbers:

2007 Carrera S weight (manual): 3075 lbs
2008 E92 M3 weight: 1655 kg / 3648.7 lbs

3648.7 - 3075 = 573.7 lbs

Whose opinion shouldn't we listen to now?

Maybe you should sell your M3 and go back to community college to take some entry level math courses.

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

I've never dragged raced an M3 though I have spent time in a Carrera S. I doubt your heavy footing it like a monkey really tells the peak performance of either car unless you're a professional and had some really nice test equipment to validate your numbers.

Oh, and I hope you get your foot out of your mouth someday. I said 500-600 lbs difference based on my knowledge of both cars. So let's do the numbers:

2007 Carrera S weight (manual): 3075 lbs
2008 E92 M3 weight: 1655 kg / 3648.7 lbs

3648.7 - 3075 = 573.7 lbs

Whose opinion shouldn't we listen to now?

Maybe you should sell your M3 and go back to community college to take some entry level math courses.

I HAVE drag raced and M3. Apparently timeslips aren't a valid way to tell performance of either car? At the same time, same place? WTF? So because you have sat in a 911 that somehow gives you experience as to how it matches up to the M3 in a drag race? hahah!

Maybe you should actually utilize the resources the internet puts at your disposal, like M3post:

Did I mention that is the weight of a DCT car? Oh, and nice try on your 997S figure. Porsche lists it at 3,131 lbs, for the manual, WITHOUT options. It has been weighed at 3300 with options and fluids

I'll give you the BENEFIT of the lower figure, and maybe you need to check what 3549 - 3131 is. Don't need a community college professor to tell me it isn't 600 pounds and neither are the figures you went by

That foot in the mouth? Would be in YOURS.

NewSong · 03-12-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

I HAVE drag raced and M3. Apparently timeslips aren't a valid way to tell performance of either car? At the same time, same place? WTF? So because you have sat in a 911 that somehow gives you experience as to how it matches up to the M3 in a drag race? hahah!

I'll give you the BENEFIT of the lower figure, and maybe you need to check what 3549 - 3131 is. Don't need a community college professor to tell me it isn't 600 pounds and neither are the figures you went by

First off the 997S is rated 0-60 at 4.6 seconds.
The E92 M3 is rated 0-60 at 4.4-4.5 seconds.

There isn't a huge gap in performance on the straights. Just because you show up at a track, and race some other strip monkey doesn't mean your "few runs" against that 997S determine the performance of both cars. That's just driver difference. I'm sure tons of people could destroy you in a 997S simply because they have more skill. The cars are evenly matched on the straights.

As for your second point, I think you should sell your M3 to go back and take a few entry level english classes at community college because you don't know what UNLADEN weight seems to mean. Here, I'll educate you free of charge:
http://www.motorera.com/dictionary/UN.HTM

You're comparing the 997S unladen weight (fluids) to the M3 weight without fluids. It can even include the weight of the driver in some places.

So let's explore my original claim:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

Umm, it weighs 500-600 pounds less than the M3.

M3 E92 Unladen weight: 3704

From BMW Website:

2007 997S Unladen weight: 3130
From AutoEvolution:

So let's do the math again.

3704 - 3130 = 574 lbs difference! Funny how that pretty much matches up AGAIN with what I said previously.

Or are you going to drive your M3 without, fuel and oil?

Now you have two feet in your mouth. I'll help you remove them if you just admit you're a moron, and kill yourself.

NewSong · 03-12-2009, 08:33 PM

Where are you Sticky? I hope you didn't really kill yourself. I was just kidding about that part.

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

First off the 997S is rated 0-60 at 4.6 seconds.
The E92 M3 is rated 0-60 at 4.4-4.5 seconds.

There isn't a huge gap in performance on the straights. Just because you show up at a track, and race some other strip monkey doesn't mean your "few runs" against that 997S determine the performance of both cars. That's just driver difference. I'm sure tons of people could destroy you in a 997S simply because they have more skill. The cars are evenly matched on the straights.

As for your second point, I think you should sell your M3 to go back and take a few entry level english classes at community college because you don't know what UNLADEN weight seems to mean. Here, I'll educate you free of charge:
http://www.motorera.com/dictionary/UN.HTM

You're comparing the 997S unladen weight (fluids) to the M3 weight without fluids. It can even include the weight of the driver in some places.

So let's explore my original claim:

M3 E92 Unladen weight: 3704

So let's do the math again.

3704 - 3130 = 574 lbs difference! Funny how that pretty much matches up AGAIN with what I said previously.

Or are you going to drive your M3 without, fuel and oil?

Now you have two feet in your mouth. I'll help you remove them if you just admit you're a moron, and kill yourself.

You can not possibly be this dense. Just don't know when you are beat do you?

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...M3_Vehicle.pdf

What is 3700-3320? 911 vs. M3, weighed same time, same place.

Oh wait, what is this? 3780 pounds WITH Driver AND full tank: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...75&postcount=1

Here, how about M3 owners who have actually weighed their cars:

3549: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=38

Manual, 3497: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=39

Do you have ANY idea between the difference on paper and in real life? Once again, your lack of experience comes into play. Maybe someone will let you sit in an M3 so you can pretend to know about it as well?

I think you should concern YOURSELF with an education, that way maybe one day you will be at a level of mental comprehension to where you might be able to afford an M3 and be able to discuss such topics with the owners.

NewSong · 03-12-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

I weighed my car today on a scale good to +/- 20 lb. It was free here at the local dump.

Yeah, I'm sure that was totally more accurate than the scales and specifications that Porsche and BMW used.

Quote:

where you might be able to afford an M3 and be able to discuss such topics with the owners.

Yeah, one day when I can add and subtract numbers as well as you. One day!

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

Yeah, I'm sure that was totally more accurate than the scales and specifications that Porsche and BMW used.

Yeah, one day when I can add and subtract numbers as well as you. One day!

Uh, he weighed it again on a different scale, READ THE THREAD. Where do you think that picture in the thread came from? Nice try though

Oh, and your whole ISSUE stems from that the Porsche figure is a curb weight figure whereas the BMW figures includes the driver and an item of luggage.

http://autos.aol.com/cars-Porsche-91...vailable-trims

There, the curb weight for all the 911 models, look it over, and prepare your apology.

Oh, and way to ignore the two cars weighed at the same time, same place. Convenient, as it shoots your numbers to hell.

I love it.

NewSong · 03-12-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

U
http://autos.aol.com/cars-Porsche-91...vailable-trims

There, the curb weight for all the 911 models, look it over, and prepare your apology.

You know the link you posted is for the 2009 911, and not the 2007 right? You also know that the 2009 is a facelift as well as different in terms of equipment options including LSD, and PDK right?

Anyway, let the flames of war drift away into the smoke of peace.

Were you really serious about letting me sit inside of your M3?

I'm getting tired of cloth seats.

mpower03 · 03-12-2009, 09:36 PM

the weight difference is only about 300 pounds. just rough number not exact though. the m3 will be faster in a straight line w/o a doubt. on a track that i don't know.

E82tt6 · 03-12-2009, 10:06 PM

I beat a C5 Z06 at the strip in my 50th or the 550 Boxster S. .5 seconds, and 2 MPH.

Boxster S must be a faster car.

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

You know the link you posted is for the 2009 911, and not the 2007 right? You also know that the 2009 is a facelift as well as different in terms of equipment options including LSD, and PDK right?

Anyway, let the flames of war drift away into the smoke of peace.

Were you really serious about letting me sit inside of your M3?

I'm getting tired of cloth seats.

Did you realize Porsche never changed the S weight figure on their site from the 997 to the 997 MKII?

You realize it is still the same chassis?

You realize PDK and an LSD do not weigh ~180 pounds?

You realize that comparison is the most recent?

Smart move backing off.

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E82tt6

I beat a C5 Z06 at the strip in my 50th or the 550 Boxster S. .5 seconds, and 2 MPH.

Boxster S must be a faster car.

Repeatedly? Get it on video? Anything to back it up?

Does the Boxster S have more WHP than the Z06? No. Does the Carrera S have more WHP than the M3? No.

NewSong · 03-12-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E82tt6

I beat a C5 Z06 at the strip in my 50th or the 550 Boxster S. .5 seconds, and 2 MPH.

Boxster S must be a faster car.

Sticky just got owned.

NewSong · 03-12-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpower03

the weight difference is only about 300 pounds. just rough number not exact though

No offense, but how did you come to your "rough number" of "300 pounds." I've been on forums where the unladen weight of the 997S has been confirmed as accurate, and even in Sticky's own links, people there are getting within 20-30 pounds of the 3704 figure for the E92 M3 using their "dump truck scales."

I'm not saying you're making it up or anything, but I just want to know your heuristic.

E82tt6 · 03-12-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticky

Repeatedly? Get it on video? Anything to back it up?

Does the Boxster S have more WHP than the Z06? No. Does the Carrera S have more WHP than the M3? No.

No not on video, but if you search youtube you'll find PLENTY of videos of Z06s, Vipers, etc, running 14s or slower.

I'm sure you got the point either way. Just because you ran someone who obvoiusly couldn't drive, doesn't mean the M3 is legitimately 1 second and 5mph faster in the 1/4th mile.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Porsche--911-Drag-Racing.html

Stock 997s are certainly capables at 12s @ over 110

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--M3-Dra...l?resultpage=2

As are M3s

Definition of a driver's race.

mikeokimster · 03-12-2009, 10:59 PM

IMO it would be best if you did some extensive test driving with the two and see what suites you. #'s can look great on paper, but that doesn't necessarily dictate the driving feel for your situations.

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E82tt6

No not on video, but if you search youtube you'll find PLENTY of videos of Z06s, Vipers, etc, running 14s or slower.

I'm sure you got the point either way. Just because you ran someone who obvoiusly couldn't drive, doesn't mean the M3 is legitimately 1 second and 5mph faster in the 1/4th mile.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Porsche--911-Drag-Racing.html

Stock 997s are certainly capables at 12s @ over 110

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--M3-Dra...l?resultpage=2

As are M3s

Definition of a driver's race.

Really? So if the 60 foot is better on the 911 yet the M3 still pulls out ahead, what does that tell you?

Or when running from a roll?

And when running MULTIPLE times at the strip and the result never deviates? Sounds like a consistent result.

Ignoring the trap speed?

Of course the driver is a factor, but the machine has limits.

Doesn't change the fact the M3 puts down significantly more RWHP, and my results correlate with that FACT. All things being equal, the M3 puts much more power to to the tire.

The only way your argument works if under the assumption that person could not drive. How about that more than one driver ran that car on that day and no one broke 12's? Ooops....

Oh, and look at page 1 of the M3's, take a look at number 11, thanks.

Oh, and did you notice how not a single owner has been able to match magazine times with the Carrera S, even when modded? Funny, isn't it? Yet M3 owners have exceeded their numbers... hmm.

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

Sticky just got owned.

You definitely could use outside help.

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

No offense, but how did you come to your "rough number" of "300 pounds." I've been on forums where the unladen weight of the 997S has been confirmed as accurate, and even in Sticky's own links, people there are getting within 20-30 pounds of the 3704 figure for the E92 M3 using their "dump truck scales."

I'm not saying you're making it up or anything, but I just want to know your heuristic.

Uh, if you actually read the thread, people are getting in the 3550 range. Reality is inconvenient, isn't it? Not to mention the "dump truck scaled" weight was estimated without the driver and full tank to be: 3513.

Later on, to CONFIRM, he used automotive scales and the weight with less fuel he got was the same posted in the picture in the thread, 3549. Sounds pretty accurate... oh and of course you are ignoring the other people who confirm this range

Apparently you aren't as smart as you appeared earlier when you called it quits.

rcracer_tx · 03-12-2009, 11:49 PM

Is this the same sticky that Terry whooped in the quarter mile with a 135i? If so, you are not by any means a credible source as you could not get your piece of shit modded to hell M3 to the 11 sec. club.

You should be quiet as you are a terrible driver... If you are the same sticky...

rcracer_tx · 03-12-2009, 11:53 PM

A better question to the OP would be if you are more concerned of being faster than everyone else in a straight line, or are simply looking for a fun car. The 997 will be much more fun than an ///M3, no matter which one is faster in a straight line. I am not sure what the fascination is with making a straight line car, but I know for a fact that my previous Porsche was much more fun in the twisties than my 135 is.(I'm trying to fix this now with suspension upgrades

)

Sticky · 03-12-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcracer_tx

Is this the same sticky that Terry whooped in the quarter mile with a 135i? If so, you are not by any means a credible source as you could not get your piece of shit modded to hell M3 to the 11 sec. club.

You should be quiet as you are a terrible driver... If you are the same sticky...

Yep, I'm the same sticky with the fastest recorded 1/4 mile for an E92 M3. Yep, terrible driver.

Oh, ya, turbo cars running 100+ Octane are clearly an apples to apples comparison. Because, with boost, the M3 only makes... what, 600 wheel, on pump?

You should be quiet as you don't know what you are talking about

Don't write checks with your fingers for others to cash.

Don't worry, I'll remind you of the post after my next trip to the strip.

03-12-2009, 08:33 PM	#48
NewSong Just another jerk in a hat... 117 Rep 1,462 Posts Drives: 2005 Ford Focus Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Irvine iTrader: (0)	Where are you Sticky? I hope you didn't really kill yourself. I was just kidding about that part. __________________ He brought me up also out of a horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 09:36 PM	#53
mpower03 Captain 39 Rep 962 Posts Drives: 08 z4 M Coupe Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: FL iTrader: (2)	the weight difference is only about 300 pounds. just rough number not exact though. the m3 will be faster in a straight line w/o a doubt. on a track that i don't know. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 10:06 PM	#54
E82tt6 Colonel 104 Rep 2,626 Posts Drives: '08 Black Saphire Z4 MC Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	I beat a C5 Z06 at the strip in my 50th or the 550 Boxster S. .5 seconds, and 2 MPH. Boxster S must be a faster car. __________________ '08 Black Saphire/Black Z4 M Coupe RIP Gretta: Blue Water/Lemon 135i. Died to save me. -ChuckV
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 10:59 PM	#60
mikeokimster Lieutenant Colonel 205 Rep 1,699 Posts Drives: e90 jerez m3 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: North Seattle, WA iTrader: (10)	IMO it would be best if you did some extensive test driving with the two and see what suites you. #'s can look great on paper, but that doesn't necessarily dictate the driving feel for your situations. __________________ Current: 10' E90 Jerez M3 DCT ///Mods: Xpel front clip wrap, Nokya 2500k H8 halos, matte grills, IND reflectors, scoops, MS drop-in, MS track pipes, Dinan exhaust, 240E, ESS tune, BBS CHR, s04 255x35 295x30, KW Clubsports, ceramic pads Retired: 08' E92 328i JB 6mt 212 rwhp 190 rwtq
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 11:49 PM	#64
rcracer_tx Banned 55 Rep 2,013 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	Is this the same sticky that Terry whooped in the quarter mile with a 135i? If so, you are not by any means a credible source as you could not get your piece of shit modded to hell M3 to the 11 sec. club. You should be quiet as you are a terrible driver... If you are the same sticky...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2009, 11:53 PM	#65
rcracer_tx Banned 55 Rep 2,013 Posts Drives: BSM 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	A better question to the OP would be if you are more concerned of being faster than everyone else in a straight line, or are simply looking for a fun car. The 997 will be much more fun than an ///M3, no matter which one is faster in a straight line. I am not sure what the fascination is with making a straight line car, but I know for a fact that my previous Porsche was much more fun in the twisties than my 135 is.(I'm trying to fix this now with suspension upgrades )
	Appreciate 0 Quote