[Marven]

Originally Posted by MaxL

I am Canadian permanent resident who just moved to USA (temporarily). I am planning to come back and become Canadian citizen soon (it is a two staged process - first you have to become a permanent resident and then after 5 years or so you become a citizen). You get health care and all the good stuff on the first stage. I generally agree with comments other Canadians already made, and just want to add a little:

1. Free health care is NOT a myth. Yes, you amy need to have a relationship with a doctor to make sure you do not have to stand in lines for too long and get the treatement you need soon enough, but this is not like you have to beg and steal (or bribe) to get treated. From my experience, it really works like it's supposed to. Yes, you may have to do some pushing if you want prompt attention with something small, but if you have an emergency or a big issue - you are all covered, it's all immediate, free and top class.

2. Cleanness and safety - oh, that's what I miss the most in DC. Having had my nose broken 4 times before I was 21, I never thought I would care about safety that much, but after I got married things changed. In Toronto I really appreciated being able to walk anywhere any time of the day/night without fear and having the streets around my house shampooed every night... The contrast is so big, that when I first came to DC I thought there was some parade or a fair that left all this garbage, but then I realized that that's how things are... (sorry, did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings).

3. Better infrastructure - yes, you can really see tax dollars working. I mean, even squirels in city parks look like they are getting free vitamin supplements from government. I liked that, although I realized I was paying for that through taxes. Not to turn this to politics, but I feel better paying for vitamins for fluffy animals than for some questionable armed conflicts.

4. Taxes - income taxes are bigger but not by large. About the same, actually. Sales tax is a lot bigger (13% now), but there is only 8% tax on services and no tax on essentials, such as food, rent etc.

5. higher prices - some say it does not matter, but it DOES. After canadian dollar went up, a bimmer in Canada is almost 50% (!!!) more expensive than the same car in states (no real european delivery either). Same is true for many other things, but mostly big items. Stuff like food is usually chaper.

6. Other things that you will not like in Canada (in random order):

banking services - getting a loan or credit card, especially for a small business is about 5 times more difficult and time consuming than in states.

car insurance (especially in Ontario) - mine was 4-5 times more expensive in Canada than the price I pay in States, and that's rather a rule than an exception.

air travel - Air Canada is pretty much a monopoly, so air travel is more expensive. Quality is generally better though - you get some sneks and personal entertainment units (where you can select your own news or TV shows to watch) even on local flights.

online shopping - not many canadian online stores. However, if you get a good customs brocker, you can buy everything in States. Having to run everything through customs and pay fees for all purchases from States is a pain in the butt, but there is way around it (legal).

Oh, yeah, if you have any problem with Asian, African, Russian, Jewish people etc or gay community - do not go to Canada. It is very multicultural and you have to appreciate cultural differences (not just tolerate them) to really enjoy this country.

hope this helps

Hey MaxL - agree with all of is. I lived in VA for 2 years and moved back to Toronto for the EXACT same reasons..

Why did you move to DC anyway? We actually miss VA sometimes especially since we got this snow in TO

Later
M.

M.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

The problem with the Canadian system comes once you get sick. There is a serious lack of capacity of numerous common procedures. Waits can approach 6 months for sometihng we wouldn't wait 6 hours for here. You want that? Move to Canada. I'll pay for your u-haul.

Geez, I must have really gotten lucky this summer when I fractured my finger on a Wednesday night and had surgery on Friday morning. Thanks for telling me that I should have waited six months for this.

I must have gotten even luckier when my daughter was born. Let's see, private room w/King size bed (a few extra dollars), nice LCD TV (a few extra dollars), meals cooked for me too (I had to pay for that though) and the most professional/compassionate car that I could hoped for for my wife/daughter. Total bill $60, and that was covered by my health spending account from work.


There is no such thing as "Canada" when it comes to health care, but all jurisdictions operate within the guidelines of the Canada Health Act which is federal legislation. Provinces are responsible for setting up their own systems. There are regional differences between the level of care which is received. I have been fortunate that I have not had one bad experience with any medical care received by my family in my entire life.

[TurboFan]

And all the people we are treating here that are fleeing Canada because they can't get an MRI or a heart bypass?

[picus]

Not to get too deep into the healthcare debate, but as a Canadian who lived in the US for 10 years, the Canadian Health Care system leaves a lot to be desired. Yes, it doesn't cost us any money (taxes aside), but it does cost us in quality of care.

[BeMyWife330i]

Originally Posted by MaxL

I am Canadian permanent resident who just moved to USA (temporarily). I am planning to come back and become Canadian citizen soon (it is a two staged process - first you have to become a permanent resident and then after 5 years or so you become a citizen). You get health care and all the good stuff on the first stage. I generally agree with comments other Canadians already made, and just want to add a little:

1. Free health care is NOT a myth. Yes, you amy need to have a relationship with a doctor to make sure you do not have to stand in lines for too long and get the treatement you need soon enough, but this is not like you have to beg and steal (or bribe) to get treated. From my experience, it really works like it's supposed to. Yes, you may have to do some pushing if you want prompt attention with something small, but if you have an emergency or a big issue - you are all covered, it's all immediate, free and top class.

2. Cleanness and safety - oh, that's what I miss the most in DC. Having had my nose broken 4 times before I was 21, I never thought I would care about safety that much, but after I got married things changed. In Toronto I really appreciated being able to walk anywhere any time of the day/night without fear and having the streets around my house shampooed every night... The contrast is so big, that when I first came to DC I thought there was some parade or a fair that left all this garbage, but then I realized that that's how things are... (sorry, did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings).

3. Better infrastructure - yes, you can really see tax dollars working. I mean, even squirels in city parks look like they are getting free vitamin supplements from government. I liked that, although I realized I was paying for that through taxes. Not to turn this to politics, but I feel better paying for vitamins for fluffy animals than for some questionable armed conflicts.

4. Taxes - income taxes are bigger but not by large. About the same, actually. Sales tax is a lot bigger (13% now), but there is only 8% tax on services and no tax on essentials, such as food, rent etc.

5. higher prices - some say it does not matter, but it DOES. After canadian dollar went up, a bimmer in Canada is almost 50% (!!!) more expensive than the same car in states (no real european delivery either). Same is true for many other things, but mostly big items. Stuff like food is usually chaper.

6. Other things that you will not like in Canada (in random order):

banking services - getting a loan or credit card, especially for a small business is about 5 times more difficult and time consuming than in states.

car insurance (especially in Ontario) - mine was 4-5 times more expensive in Canada than the price I pay in States, and that's rather a rule than an exception.

air travel - Air Canada is pretty much a monopoly, so air travel is more expensive. Quality is generally better though - you get some sneks and personal entertainment units (where you can select your own news or TV shows to watch) even on local flights.

online shopping - not many canadian online stores. However, if you get a good customs brocker, you can buy everything in States. Having to run everything through customs and pay fees for all purchases from States is a pain in the butt, but there is way around it (legal).

Oh, yeah, if you have any problem with Asian, African, Russian, Jewish people etc or gay community - do not go to Canada. It is very multicultural and you have to appreciate cultural differences (not just tolerate them) to really enjoy this country.

hope this helps

thank you, and everyone else for their input, some of it is very helpful to know

[Marven]

Originally Posted by picus

Not to get too deep into the healthcare debate, but as a Canadian who lived in the US for 10 years, the Canadian Health Care system leaves a lot to be desired. Yes, it doesn't cost us any money (taxes aside), but it does cost us in quality of care.

As much as I love my home have to say I agree....if you work for a good company and have good insurance I would say it's better in the US. However I dont know what would happen with a MAJOR illness

Maybe some US folks could chime in

M.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

And all the people we are treating here that are fleeing Canada because they can't get an MRI or a heart bypass?

Nice anecdotal comment. Here are some hard statistics: 47 million uninsured Americans. Canadian live longer on average. Winner, Canada.

% of GDP spent on healthcare: US 16, Canada 9.7. Also something to be said for bang-for-buck.


I am not saying that our system is perfect, but I do think it is superior overall to the US system.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

The problem with the Canadian system comes once you get sick. There is a serious lack of capacity of numerous common procedures. Waits can approach 6 months for sometihng we wouldn't wait 6 hours for here.

BS

That is what Bush and his business partners want you to believe.
There are issues everywhere. I had to schedule my dermatologist appointment 8 months ahead in FL for the thing that could have turned to be something serious...

It is clear that the wait could be a little bit longer for some things. It is clear that the quality of HC is similar (Doctors, equipment...).
It is clear that you have accepted FOX view on Canadian and French healthcare systems...

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Marven

As much as I love my home have to say I agree....if you work for a good company and have good insurance I would say it's better in the US. However I dont know what would happen with a MAJOR illness

Maybe some US folks could chime in

M.

That is the WHOLE point!!!
If you workd for the good company here, you can care less...
What if you loose job...and get sick.
you're f*cked!
What if you just work for a regular company??? Chances are you won't be getting the best healthcare deal and then it is your luck -- you and your fam may be denied healthcare...

Someone mentioned that it is harder to get loans up there. It is not harder -- it is a normal thing!!! Look what "easy" loans did to millions here loosing homes and everything...while someone else got super rich...

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

Y I also think we have the greatest healthcare the world has to offer. .

WOW, I don't think anyone should continue debating with you after this arrogant comment!
Such a gread and carrying person that does not give a shit about millions that are affraid of a simple flu...in this greatest country....
Shame on you

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by TurboFan :
Y I also think we have the greatest healthcare the world has to offer. .

I just can't get over this statement!
In the USA, you only have the insurance if you're healthy to go to work. What is the point of it. In most cases it does not even pay for the preventive care -- for example, try to go to nutricionist to get on schedule if high cholesterol + diabetes run in your family. You (most likely) will not going to get approved because you do not have diabetes, yet...

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Originally Posted by TurboFan :
Y I also think we have the greatest healthcare the world has to offer. .

I just can't get over this statement!
In the USA, you only have the insurance if you're healthy to go to work. What is the point of it. In most cases it does not even pay for the preventive care -- for example, try to go to nutricionist to get on schedule if high cholesterol + diabetes run in your family. You (most likely) will not going to get approved because you do not have diabetes, yet...

Leave already. Geez.
Dallas makes me throw up just hearing the word. The health care is not to snuff. My dermatologist has me on a waiting list. Please continue........

[Slke46]

Sorry, but some of the things that people mentioned are a little off with their perception of the Canada. I used to come to the states every year for a month to spend time with friends and family but always so happy to return home.

Don't get me wrong there are places in the states I would love to live, some have some gorgeous cities but I do feel living in Canada especially Toronto has its benefits.

For one the cities are cleaner and the roads are really good, but there are some areas that need work on those holes. We also don't have any freak storms that cause major damage like hurricanes, tornados (some places not common) and floods.

The credit bank system is strict but only for first time credit card application people, and that’s to avoid kids from getting money and claiming bankruptcy. It’s to protect the people using the credit card system.

The health care system is only lagging in one thing, and that’s waiting time to see a doctor for check ups and surgery. I'm not too familiar with health care system there, but it is known that if you want quicker treatment to go to the states and pay for it. That is the main reason I believe why people go down to the states to get treatment you pay money you get a quicker response. If you need some type of surgery when your older guess how much you paying for a heart by-pass?? Nothing... where as in the US, my uncle has a bill of 80k or something crazy.

I think the only downfalls are the high taxes (although one of our taxes was lowered a percent), higher priced designer items, car MODS and the weather (which I love). The women are hot as hell, and the party scene for all ages is crazy. Plus we can go to Cuba and get some nice Cohiba Spendido's no. 1's!!!!

Its all really depends on what you want in life, and also depends on your version of happiness for yourself now and what you want later when you retire. California and Florida and anywhere close to the ocean looks amazing!! One place I could see myself living...

But I will live here for a long time, watch my kiddies grow and enjoy the same comforts I enjoyed growing up knowing the government will always try to improve the necessities of life (education, health care, law enforcement and everyday living) first. But I will still travel south to enjoy the palms and sun when needed.

Hope this helps give you an idea?

[gonzo]

I have never been to Toronto but have heard it is a good place to live or visit. Too cold for me. I like it 85-90.

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by dr325i

BS

That is what Bush and his business partners want you to believe.
There are issues everywhere. I had to schedule my dermatologist appointment 8 months ahead in FL for the thing that could have turned to be something serious...

It is clear that the wait could be a little bit longer for some things. It is clear that the quality of HC is similar (Doctors, equipment...).
It is clear that you have accepted FOX view on Canadian and French healthcare systems...

Nope, I get it from reading medical journals, and studying independent facts. It's a topic about which I am very interested.

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Nice anecdotal comment. Here are some hard statistics: 47 million uninsured Americans. Canadian live longer on average. Winner, Canada.

% of GDP spent on healthcare: US 16, Canada 9.7. Also something to be said for bang-for-buck.


I am not saying that our system is perfect, but I do think it is superior overall to the US system.

What percentage of your GDP is paid by the population in taxes, and how much of that goes to health care? Tell the whole story.

I'm not saying it's cheaper here, but it is better. You don't see Americans going across the border because they can't get into a doctor here.

We just go because we want a procedure that's not legal here.

[Marven]

Originally Posted by dr325i

That is the WHOLE point!!!
If you workd for the good company here, you can care less...
What if you loose job...and get sick.
you're f*cked!
What if you just work for a regular company??? Chances are you won't be getting the best healthcare deal and then it is your luck -- you and your fam may be denied healthcare...
Someone mentioned that it is harder to get loans up there. It is not harder -- it is a normal thing!!! Look what "easy" loans did to millions here loosing homes and everything...while someone else got super rich...

This is a definite issue! In the States it seems that you have health care until your healthy but if you are in between jobs and you get sick then it seems that you will be denied coverage..if that is the case..wow, just scary..

Here in Canada if you get sick at least you'll get treatment..My mom has had arthritis for years..I have the say that she's been treated well....I personally needed to have a brain MRI and I recieved the appointment within a month and it wasnt even serious. In fact I met a a young guy there who says he comes in every 2 weeks for one..so the wait cant be that bad..My understanding is that the wait for the specialist for the first visit..just my experiances...

As others have mentioned, if you want IMMEDIATE care go over the border and pay for it....I know if I needed a MRI NOW I would go over to Buffalo and pay the $1000 and get it done! I personally think we should have have this access in Canada..Canadians dont want to admit it but there is a two teir health system here but that's another topic all together...Interestingly I just read this today..http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=141706

M.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Marven

As others have mentioned, if you want IMMEDIATE care go over the border and pay for it....I know if I needed a MRI NOW I would go over to Buffalo and pay the $1000 and get it done! I personally think we should have have this access in Canada..Canadians dont want to admit it but there is a two teir health system here but that's another topic all together...Interestingly I just read this today..http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=141706

M.

you can get an MRI done in Alberta (don't know about other provinces) through private clinics.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

You don't see Americans going across the border because they can't get into a doctor here.

:

Ahm...what would be the benefit of that.
Canadian healthcare applies to their citizens and residents -- not Americans...
It is all OK IF you're healthy and can afford/get the insurance. The problems happen when you really need it -- when you get sick
Think before you write...

[picus]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Nice anecdotal comment. Here are some hard statistics: 47 million uninsured Americans. Canadian live longer on average. Winner, Canada.

% of GDP spent on healthcare: US 16, Canada 9.7. Also something to be said for bang-for-buck.


I am not saying that our system is perfect, but I do think it is superior overall to the US system.

I guess you're right, it must be regional. Here in the Golden Horseshoe there is a 7 month wait on non-life threatening chemo or radiation. An example; my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer in June 2002, and wasn't scheduled for treatment until January. Knowing that would kill her, the Canadian government sent her to Buffalo for care. Every person she saw there was Canadian.

It's possible Alberta's system isn't over-taxed yet. Here in Ontario, it is. I can tell you this, compared to California hospitals the hospitals here look like third world facilities.

[Viral]

as a Canadian living in the US for the last 12 years, I've noticed one major difference (and it's probably the reason why I'm still here): the amount of opportunities to suceed in your career are phenomenal.....whether you go out and earn them is up to the individual, but at least the opportunities are there.

One thing I absolutely hate about the US: the lack of multi-culturalism

To the OP: I know this doesn't answer your questions, however my Canadian roots demanded that I chime in :-)

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Viral

one major difference (and it's probably the reason why I'm still here): the amount of opportunities to suceed in your career is phenomenal.....whether you go out and earn them is up to the individual, but at least the opportunities are there.

No doubt about this!

Opportunities are endless here -- career wise.