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      04-21-2008, 11:08 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
Source for that?

Marijuana DOES cause lung cancer and produces dementia in the long run.
marijuana doesnt cause lung cancer: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...052501729.html

marijuana and brain damage:
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The most celebrated study that claims to show brain damage is the rhesus monkey study of Dr. Robert Heath, done in the late 1970s. This study was reviewed by a distinguished panel of scientists sponsored by the Institute of Medicine and the National Academy of Sciences. Their results were published under the title, Marijuana and Health in 1982. Heath's work was sharply criticized for its insufficient sample size (only four monkeys), its failure to control experimental bias, and the misidentification of normal monkey brain structure as "damaged". Actual studies of human populations of marijuana users have shown no evidence of brain damage. For example, two studies from 1977, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) showed no evidence of brain damage in heavy users of marijuana. That same year, the American Medical Association (AMA) officially came out in favor of decriminalizing marijuana. That's not the sort of thing you'd expect if the AMA thought marijuana damaged the brain.
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      04-21-2008, 11:26 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
Cannabis is toxic, specially when smoked.
Source for that? Or dementia?

Pot, kettle. No pun intended.

I don't smoke the stuff anymore, but to say that Cannabis is "toxic" is simply nonesense. It is completely harmless UNLESS smoked, which obviously isn't good for you. MJ, THC, TBC, etc, are all nearly harmless in and of themselves. There are, at best, TINY handful of perscription drugs or intoxicants that are less toxic. Among intoxicants, I believe only LSD is less toxic, though Psylocybin may also be less toxic. All of the above substances are MUCH more than 100 times less toxic than alcohol. I'm not aware of ANY perscription or OTC drugs that are less toxic than MJ. If you think THC is toxic, you must think Advil is a suicide pill! CAFFEINE is more toxic than THC by AT LEAST 10 fold.



As for "dementia" I'm not aware of ANY long term studies showing any significant corelation between MJ use and dementia. Hell recent research shows that MJ may actually help combat the progress of Alzheimers, and perhaps dementia.

I KNOW you'll ask for a source for that one, so here you go: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1009031544.htm

The home page of that site is a good one to bookmark, they tend to have some really cool articles! http://www.sciencedaily.com/

The ONLY established link between THC and ANY sort of pschosis would be schizophrenia, particularly in the cases of heavy use in adolescence: http://bipolar.about.com/od/relatedd...schizo_pot.htm

Even this corelation is a drop in the bucket compared to the likelyhood of other intoxicants inducing schizophrenia, including of course good ole alcohol!

My point? You're telling someone to post sources, when you yourself have made some rather wild claims without any real information. You could have done something so easy as a quick Google before your post to find some factual verification of your points, but instead chose to unsupported claims, while at the same time demanding sources from someone else.

As for THC and cancer: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0417193338.htm

I know nothing about THC and the secretion of any sort of "protective fluid" in the brain.
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      04-21-2008, 11:27 PM   #69
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yes, using studies from the 70's really proves your point, especially because our knowledge in all areas of medicine hasn't evolved since then. the other study again just compares "certain groups" without any medical analysis whatsoever. it's not even close to what i would call a "study" and can't seriously be considered as such. reading your post at first i thought you were joking, but after seeing your sig it was clear that you weren't. i'm guessing nuclear warheads aren't really dangerous either? back in the 50s, no one worried about a thing called radiation, so any talk about nuclear threats nowadays must be government propaganda.

don't take it personal, but just don't make yourself look dumber than you already do by openly demonstrating how cool it is to take drugs. it's everyone's own choice, but you don't seriously believe anything of what you have just written? it's utter bullshit, worth a good laugh nonetheless. i'm most certain you will find support from fellow stoners to prove everyone else wrong, and to show us why cannabis is so healthy afterall. maybe it really is that way and i should just quit my gym membership and spend the money on cannabis. afterall, if it really reverses damages from drinking, that are of course wrongly considered irreversible, that would definitely be a good reason to consider in doing so .

@ E82tt6 i've seen signs of dementia on several stoners i know. the longer i've known them, the greater their inability to remember things and loss of intellectual capacity gets.
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      04-21-2008, 11:40 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basche View Post
E82tt6 i've seen signs of dementia on several stoners i know. the longer i've known them, the greater their inability to remember things gets.
See...basing your facts off of bullshit like this is why no one should pay attention to what you say

Your "stoner" friends I'm sure have been smoking a long time straight, because of this their different stages of sleep have been altered which is why their short term memory is shit....lay off the pot and watch how your short term memory magically comes back....If I remember right, it's the REM stages of sleep that get distorted which is another reason why people who use marijuana don't typically remember their dreams. Again lay off the pot and you start vividly remembering dreams again....All of it is explained if you just take the time learn with an open mind.
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      04-21-2008, 11:40 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basche View Post
yes, using studies from the 70's really proves your point, especially because our knowledge in all areas of medicine hasn't evolved since then. reading that post at first i thought you were joking, but after seeing your sig it was clear that you weren't. i'm guessing nuclear bombs aren't really dangerous either? back in the 50s, no one worried about a thing called radiation, so any talk about nuclear threats nowadays must be government propaganda.

don't take it personal, but just don't make yourself look dumber than you already do by openly demonstrating how cool it is to take drugs. it's everyone's own choice, but you don't seriously believe anything of what you have just written? it's utter bullshit, worth a good laugh nonetheless. i'm most certain you will find support from fellow stoners to prove everyone else wrong, and to show us why cannabis is so healthy afterall. maybe it really is that way and i should just quit my gym membership and spend the money on cannabis. afterall, if it really reverses damages from drinking, that are of course wrongly considered irreversible, that would definitely be a good reason to consider in doing so .

@ E82tt6 i've seen signs of dementia on several stoners i know. the longer i've known them, the greater their inability to remember things.
ok. im tired of your shit. stay the fuck out of this thread, or if you want to preach your bullshit, make an anti-marijuana thread ok? this is a fucking 420 thread, where we come to celebrate marijuana. we dont need you to come and tell us about how pot is bad for us, re re re. you and your fucking propoganda.

hear what, none of us give a flying fuck about your .02 cents, so keep it in your pocket. we dont need you to come and lecture us. we all have had enough of that shit throughout our lives.

thanks for understanding. now gtfo.
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      04-21-2008, 11:56 PM   #72
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interesting how, once you've run out of arguments, all you can do is become offensive. apart from the fact that i don't consider any of the "stoners" i know as friends, you don't have any right to fucking judge. now go and celebrate 4/20 with your fellow drug addicts, but just stfu with all your attempts of justifying your abuse and keep them to yourself, it's just fucking pathetic.
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      04-22-2008, 12:08 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basche View Post
interesting how, once you've run out of arguments, all you can do is become offensive. apart from the fact that i don't consider any of the "stoners" i know as friends, you don't have any right to fucking judge. now go and celebrate 4/20 with your fellow drug addicts, but just stfu with all your attempts of justifying your abuse and keep them to yourself, it's just fucking pathetic.
run out of arguements? mother fucker i could go on and on. but your fucking head is thick, and im not wasting my time.

ohh, and by the way, i dont smoke pot.
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      04-22-2008, 02:39 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basche View Post
interesting how, once you've run out of arguments, all you can do is become offensive. apart from the fact that i don't consider any of the "stoners" i know as friends, you don't have any right to fucking judge. now go and celebrate 4/20 with your fellow drug addicts, but just stfu with all your attempts of justifying your abuse and keep them to yourself, it's just fucking pathetic.
shut the fuck up
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      04-22-2008, 02:45 AM   #75
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I didn't even toke on 4/20
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      04-22-2008, 02:47 AM   #76
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      04-22-2008, 03:18 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basche View Post
interesting how, once you've run out of arguments, all you can do is become offensive. apart from the fact that i don't consider any of the "stoners" i know as friends, you don't have any right to fucking judge. now go and celebrate 4/20 with your fellow drug addicts, but just stfu with all your attempts of justifying your abuse and keep them to yourself, it's just fucking pathetic.
Drug addicts? Since you are clearly against any kind of drug/meds, I assume you are young and healthy right now. When you grow older and have pains everywhere, I would love to see you not take drugs daily since those are the people you call "drug addicts".

I'm sure everyone on this forum know the facts of marijuana. Some choose to use it and some don't. This forum was created for the people who chose to smoke and celebrate it.
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      04-22-2008, 03:53 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar1 View Post
Drug addicts? Since you are clearly against any kind of drug/meds, I assume you are young and healthy right now. When you grow older and have pains everywhere, I would love to see you not take drugs daily since those are the people you call "drug addicts".

I'm sure everyone on this forum know the facts of marijuana. Some choose to use it and some don't. This forum was created for the people who chose to smoke and celebrate it.
if he drinks then rip him a new one... he's probably a health nut...
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      04-22-2008, 05:23 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh valley View Post
shut the fuck up
+ mother fucking 1
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      04-22-2008, 09:34 AM   #80
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I really don't know if there is an information problem or just denial.

If an adult was to do whatever he/she wants, that's Ok. But denial of the effect and miss-information is something unacceptable.

When posting reference, please refer to a reliable source (medical journal) and not a newspaper. Anyone can say anything this days...

I'm pointing some PROVEN FACTS with reference in "class A" medical journals.

- Marijuana smokers are at increased risk of lung cancer, specially if combined with tobacco. It does contain much more carcinogens Vs tobacco smoke.
(I would say that the use of pot alone is still not confirmed.... Probably studies will show relation with chronic users)

Ref: UCLA, published in N Engl J Med ;318(6):347-51

- Does produce irritation and histological changes in the bronchi.
Ref: Natl Cancer Inst;90(16):1198-205 and Am J Respir Cell Mol Biol ;20(6):1286-93

- Is not proven to be related with Head and neck cancer.

- The association between tobacco smoking and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) has been established. There is a huge review of various analysis you can check out:
"Effects of marijuana smoking on pulmonary function and respiratory complications: a systematic review. Tetrault JM; Crothers K; Moore BA;Arch Intern Med. 2007 Feb 12;167(3):221-8."

- About cognitive effects: a lot of diseases have been related to the use of marijuana. Starting with the "chronic cannabis syndrome".

Some cognitive disorders have been related with the chronic use. Ref: Cognitive functioning of long-term heavy cannabis users seeking treatment, Solowij N; Stephens RS; Roffman RA, AMA 2002 Mar 6;287(9):1123-31.

More about cognitive disorders: Long-term neurocognitive consequences of marijuana: a meta-analytic study. In:National Institute on Drug Abuse workshop on clinical consequences of marijuana, August 13, 2001. Available at www.nida.nih.gov/MeetSum/marijuanaabstracts.html (This is from the NIH itself).

- There is evidence that marijuana use may increase the risk of schizophrenia and depression.
Ref:
*Cannabis and schizophrenia; Andreasson S; Allebeck P; Engstrom A; Lancet; 2(8574):1483-6.
*Self reported cannabis use as a risk factor for schizophrenia in Swedish conscripts, Zammit S; Allebeck P; Andreasson S; BMJ 2002 Nov 23;325(7374):1199.

- Heart Disease: causes heart alterations, including high risk of miocardial infarction, specially in people 35 years old.
Ref: Triggering myocardial infarction by marijuana.Mittleman MA; Lewis RA; Maclure M; Circulation 2001 Jun 12;103(23):2805-9.

- Repoductive and sexual effects: In men, marijuana causes decreased serum testosterone levels, sperm count, and sperm motility. This may lead to decreased libido, impotence, and gynecomastia (increase in breat size).
Ref: Depression of plasma testosterone levels after chronic intensive marihuana use. N Engl J Medicine.
In women, chronic marijuana use causes shorter menstrual cycles and increased prolactin levels. Also, it does cross the placenta, causing neuronal damage to the baby. Ref: ennes, K. Effect of marijuana on pregnancy and fetal development in the human. NIDA Research Monograph 44. Rockville, MD: National Institute on Drug Abuse, 1984; 115.

Now, on the other hand, the medicinal use:

- Antiemetic.
- Treatment of intractable hiccups
- Treatment of cachexia associated with AIDS or cancer
- Lowering intraocular pressure in patients with glaucoma

For pain in cancer patients: its effect is not as efficient as other medication as codeine. And because it causes depression (as pointed above), it's use is not recommended.

So now you have the facts. You can do whatever you want, but you can't come up saying that it has no harmful effect on the human body.
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      04-22-2008, 09:49 AM   #81
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^ Interesting.
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      04-22-2008, 11:26 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
Now, on the other hand, the medicinal use:

- Antiemetic.
- Treatment of intractable hiccups
- Treatment of cachexia associated with AIDS or cancer
- Lowering intraocular pressure in patients with glaucoma

For pain in cancer patients: its effect is not as efficient as other medication as codeine. And because it causes depression (as pointed above), it's use is not recommended.

So now you have the facts. You can do whatever you want, but you can't come up saying that it has no harmful effect on the human body.
Additionally research suggests that THC, or derivatives there of could have use in fighting alzheimers, some forms of cancer, not to mention create the next generation of anti-deperessants. Unfortunately, seeing as it is a "Schedule 1" drug, it's VERY difficult to do research with, without going through a long and arduous process.

There are a few other studies regarding MJ/Schizophrenia, one can generally establish a link, and possibly even causality. Though, this link is difficult to establish when looking at individuals whose brains are fully developed, or even those without a genetic predisposition for the illness. In all cases, the increased risk from chronic and heavy MJ use pales in comparison to the increased risk from even occasional heavy alcohol use.

Really, if someone has a family history of mental illness, in particular schizophrenia, they should stay clean as a whistle.

One thing to keep in mind, is the risks associated with chronic, heavy MJ use are significantly lower than those for other intoxicating drugs. There really hasn't been much risk at all established for casual use, though smoking anything isn't good for you.
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      04-22-2008, 11:42 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E82tt6 View Post

One thing to keep in mind, is the risks associated with chronic, heavy MJ use are significantly lower than those for other intoxicating drugs.
How can that be an argument?

As I said, as an adult you can do whatever you want and take the consequences for that, but justifying the use based on poor evidence is something that I personally think is not right. That's why I wanted to point the facts in hard evidence.

Getting drunk will also make you forget about "problems", but doesn't mean is good for you. Now, if you wanna do it (and not harm anybody in the process), the go ahead!!
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      04-22-2008, 12:03 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
How can that be an argument?

As I said, as an adult you can do whatever you want and take the consequences for that, but justifying the use based on poor evidence is something that I personally think is not right. That's why I wanted to point the facts in hard evidence.

Getting drunk will also make you forget about "problems", but doesn't mean is good for you. Now, if you wanna do it (and not harm anybody in the process), the go ahead!!
I don't, and I have my own reasons. How can it being safer than any other intoxicant out there be an argument? I dunno, what do you think?

Being high on MJ is more fun than being drunk, and not as bad for you. I think that about sums it up, and that's why a lot of people get their kicks from it.

PS: Not saying everyone has to go and get high, but coming into someone's 420 thread and trying to rain on their parade like some have done isn't cool. You usually don't get too much of that in "Man, I'm drunk." threads, when that's a hell of a lot worse for you, and everyone else than someone smoking some MJ. Just saying, let the smokers smoke. It isn't as bad for you as many vices, and if someone wants to make a thread about the international "get stoned" holiday, no one should come in and rain on their parade.
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      04-22-2008, 12:09 PM   #85
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Reading this thread just makes me want to light up!
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      04-22-2008, 12:18 PM   #86
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Reading this thread just makes me want to light up!
hell yea, keep it burning.
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      04-22-2008, 01:35 PM   #87
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nobody really knows how it will affect u but I would rather toke then drink...
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      04-20-2012, 06:39 AM   #88
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