[.:bHd:.]

Hey guys, I'm trying to learn web development (Coding, XHTML, XML, CSS) but don't know where to start. I know how to design well but I'm still in the stone age when it comes to programming (still using tables). Anyone know any good DVDs or Books i should get? Or may be classes in the Los Angeles area?

[!Xoible]

www.w3schools.com

i dont know how deep u wanna get into it. w3schools is a source i still use all the time even tho i been a web programmer for ages. it's just like having an awesome notebook. using tools like dreamweaver, or visual studio help u a lot with dragging/dropping controls (wysiwyg + bugs lol)

u drive stick so i think ur intelligent enough to survive without books/school and all that hassle. if u have questions post here and i'll try to answer as much as i can. i'll subscribe to this thread

[.:bHd:.]

Lol @ the driving stick analogy I'll take a closer look at the site you posted once I'm done with work. it looks like its filled with tons of info. Dreamweaver came with my CS3 Design CD so i guess I'll use that. Have you ever looked at the Lynda.com DVDs? Are they worth it?

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Lol @ the driving stick analogy I'll take a closer look at the site you posted once I'm done with work. it looks like its filled with tons of info. Dreamweaver came with my CS3 Design CD so i guess I'll use that. Have you ever looked at the Lynda.com DVDs? Are they worth it?

there's a shit load of material, books, dvd's u can buy. honestly google is the best way to do it. i havent heard of lynda, but im 100% convinced u can do it all for free over google hahaha

yah w3schools is like groups of tutorials for everything u need. just start with HTML. might find it boring at first.

the way i learn shit is i install software, start a new project and keep playing until im stuck. when im stuck i ask my friend google

[.:bHd:.]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

there's a shit load of material, books, dvd's u can buy. honestly google is the best way to do it. i havent heard of lynda, but im 100% convinced u can do it all for free over google hahaha

yah w3schools is like groups of tutorials for everything u need. just start with HTML. might find it boring at first.

the way i learn shit is i install software, start a new project and keep playing until im stuck. when im stuck i ask my friend google

lol I'm like that too but i started the wrong way (with tables) so thats why i wanted to start again from the beginning and learn the coding language. I guess i'll google it aswell

[!Xoible]

oh also... if u right click any web page (like this one) go to "view source" you will see the HTML code. this allows u to borrow code that u like or see how it works

[E92-Lighting]

i like to modify already written code =)

[!Xoible]

^^ exactly, i almost never get to write new code anymore

[billspreston]

If you are serious about web development you should be learning: XHTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL or PostgreSQL, Javascript - in that order.

Any books from http://www.wrox.com will be helpful material. Start with the beginner versions. Writing all your code from scratch and not using point/click helper applications such as Dreamweaver will also be one of the best decision you can make starting off.

[.:bHd:.]

Okay quick question to you guys.. What do I need to learn that controls the layout of the site. Seems like CSS is mostly the text and stuff and Xhtml is html but stricter lol. So how do you code the layout of the site without using tables?

[billspreston]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Okay quick question to you guys.. What do I need to learn that controls the layout of the site. Seems like CSS is mostly the text and stuff and Xhtml is html but stricter lol. So how do you code the layout of the site without using tables?

You use XHTML strictly as markup tool to define the content structure of your site. You then use css to handle how/where those XHTML elements will be displayed when rendered to the browser. You design sites without using tables by using a combination of positioning techniques centered around the <div> element. I would research the float, position, and clear CSS attributes as those are the keys to positioning a div, or any other block level element (h1,h2,p,etc...) within a webpage.

If you are familiar with designing a site in tables, CSS is going to be a difficult concept for you to grasp at first. I would search for online articles that specifically deal with you how to accomplish table techniques using more modern div/css techniques. I also still heavily recommend any WROX published book you can get your hands on. They have the popular ones at Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc...

These validators will be your friend while learning and a coder will always try to write valid code even though sometimes it is not possible.

http://validator.w3.org/

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

[.:bHd:.]

So you make an index page that is an xhtml document, then you have your elements in there which are all controlled by CSS? Like your banner and stuff all depend on CSS to give their positioning info? I'll check out the books at Barnes and Noble tomorrow to see what they have. I wish i never learned the tables technique! Almost every site i looked at today did not use tables..

Did any of you guys start with tables and move to CSS? If so any tips for me?

[timn]

This sounds lame, but this is what I've done:

1. go to www.amazon.com
2. Search on specific subject
3. Find book with best reviews
4. Buy.

It helps to have a background in the computer sciences, but isn't necessary (if you're going the programming route, php, asp, js, etc.)

[ichiban]

I just recently bought a book called AJAX, it's pretty good so far. It teaches you a little bit of everything, then goes into a lot of javascript and xml.

[emergent]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Hey guys, I'm trying to learn web development (Coding, XHTML, XML, CSS) but don't know where to start. I know how to design well but I'm still in the stone age when it comes to programming (still using tables). Anyone know any good DVDs or Books i should get? Or may be classes in the Los Angeles area?

I'm assuming you want to create websites (obviously)... I'm not sure if you're JUST into coding, but I would HIGHLY recommend taking design classes. The fact is that the design, user interface and execution of your site is usually more important than coding. Obviously it depends on what you're trying to do, but in the end coding is easy and cut-and-dry compared to creating something coherent, useable and attractive... assuming you're not trying to do something completely cutting edge technology-wise.

I was an IT major (e-commerce) in college, but don't really dabble much in it anymore since I got a job, but I have some web based business ideas that are currently coming to fruition. I did almost all the design myself and have current students from my alma mater doing the coding... they are extremely talented, and the websites are very dynamic and "Web 2.0", but what people comment on and notice is the design. It's what sets it apart.

I know guys who are absolutely brilliant coders, but they're stuck in a cubicle doing what the design oriented developers tell them to do. Site design would obviously be nowhere without the people who can code it to do what you want, but in the end you're not going to go anywhere.

Anyway, thats my 0.2 cents. You can PM me with any coding questions you have and I can probably help you out, or at the very least know someone who can.

[txusa03]

Sort of in the same boat as OP, I am a programmer (cobol, jcl, C) and I just tried getting my feet wet on web development. I am having a hard time with conceptual web design. My first biggest problem is the initial designing and visually picturing how I want my web to look (layout) and flow. Then my other problem is that web development has a mixture of html, xml, javascript, and coldfusion (if you use coldfusion) all mixed into a single program. And I still do not understand css and how I can use it to help makes my web application more efficient to maintain. I assumes that css controls the look of a web application and using css will help you make quick changes to the way a web application looks because you only have to make changes to the css later on .

I have not given up yet, I just need more time to read and do more coding. I am not used to "tag" either coming from regular programming .

[AJerman]

mantis..... what does the html tag do?!

[.:bHd:.]

I've been designing sites and giving it out to other people to do the coding. I want to learn to do everything on my own so I wont relay on people. I agree for the most part that the design is more important than the code. You just gotta know photoshop really well and look at different web 2.0 sites to get an idea of what yours should look like.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by AJerman

mantis..... what does the html tag do?!

LOL they put it for confused users to know what the hell they're looking at

[euro]

[E92-Lighting]

start with java, and then branch off

[.:bHd:.]

woooot I made the homepage using xhtml, css, and a little bit of Java that comes with dreamweaver. I kept getting stuck so this simple page took me an hour to make lol. Wanna take a look at the code and tell me if it looks good?

www.bhdart.com