[InControl]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

Nailed it.

I'm not one of the new guys that just learned about the 3 stage manifold swap yesterday, lol.

If what you say is true, then the SC is not compatible (by means of reliability) with 330i's or 328's with N51's. THIS is what I want clarification from Roman on.

It's a good question. Running it over extended time (months) may be the only way to know.

[DUI Elite]

Yeah, in response to the guy that emailed Roman who got the reply "It doesn't matter if you have the 3-stage manifold" then I guess the question is are the gains with the SC less if you have one, or the same? 80hp difference over stock on a 330 vs 80 hp difference over stock on a 325 is different.

The reason its relevant is because having the 3 stage manifold WOULD be useful still (whereas other parts of this thread made the single stage manifold out to be better for the SC setup).

[kisho]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

Yeah, in response to the guy that emailed Roman who got the reply "It doesn't matter if you have the 3-stage manifold" then I guess the question is are the gains with the SC less if you have one, or the same? 80hp difference over stock on a 330 vs 80 hp difference over stock on a 325 is different.

The reason its relevant is because having the 3 stage manifold WOULD be useful still (whereas other parts of this thread made the single stage manifold out to be better for the SC setup).

That's a good question, let's see if I can get an answer to that.

I think the ZF tranny on the 325i/330i will hold up better with the increased power then the GM 328i one, time will tell. It's (6HP19) rated at 295 lb·ft, the 335i's 6HP21 (BMW calls it 6HP19TU (Technically Upgraded or GHP19Z) rated 332 lb-ft.

I actually wonder if anyone has tried to install a 335i auto onto a 330i, they are not very expensive used around $900, I was thinking of doing this myself but wondering if it was feasible, the 6HP21 is essentially a 2nd generation improved 6HP19 thats in the 330.

Slap it in and try to program the TCU in the 335i mechatronics unit or swap the TCU from the 330 into the 335i mechatronics.

[kisho]

So I asked Roman if there was a difference between having and not having the 3 stage intake and he replied, "Not really".

So I pressed a bit further and he replied with, "Maybe a couple HP. Nothing you could measure".

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by index1489

I think the ZF tranny on the 325i/330i will hold up better with the increased power then the GM 328i one, time will tell. It's (6HP19) rated at 295 lb·ft, the 335i's 6HP21 (BMW calls it 6HP19TU (Technically Upgraded or GHP19Z) rated 332 lb-ft.

I actually wonder if anyone has tried to install a 335i auto onto a 330i, they are not very expensive used around $900, I was thinking of doing this myself but wondering if it was feasible, the 6HP21 is essentially a 2nd generation improved 6HP19 thats in the 330.

Slap it in and try to program the TCU in the 335i mechatronics unit or swap the TCU from the 330 into the 335i mechatronics.

I've seen a few 335i builds on an automatic that far exceed those numbers.

[631twentyeighteye]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I've seen a few 335i builds on an automatic that far exceed those numbers.

600wtq seems to be the 135i's auto transmission limit. I've watched a few videos of guys with single turbo swaps blowing apart the transmission

[b-man]

Originally Posted by kisho

So I asked Roman if there was a difference between having and not having the 3 stage intake and he replied, "Not really".

So I pressed a bit further and he replied with, "Maybe a couple HP. Nothing you could measure".

Is he saying 325+sc will pretty much have the same hp with 325+3IM+sc? That doesn't make sense. I'd imagine a 325+3IM+sc would be similar to a 330+sc. So 330+sc will have the same hp as 325+sc? Then 60whp over stock for 325, 328 and 330 is not correct.

Maybe the 3 stage doesn't make a big difference like he says, so the 325 will gain 60whp, but the 330 will only gain 50whp...

[hassmaschine]

he's talking peak numbers though. that doesn't mean there's no difference elsewhere in the powerband.

I don't think there's any way to really know until somebody with a 3 stage puts one in and dynos it vs a 325i or 328i.

[hugorybrink]

Originally Posted by b-man

Is he saying 325+sc will pretty much have the same hp with 325+3IM+sc? That doesn't make sense. I'd imagine a 325+3IM+sc would be similar to a 330+sc. So 330+sc will have the same hp as 325+sc? Then 60whp over stock for 325, 328 and 330 is not correct.

Maybe the 3 stage doesn't make a big difference like he says, so the 325 will gain 60whp, but the 330 will only gain 50whp...

It's all based on the stock whp. The 330 will get +80 whp as well.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by hugorybrink

It's all based on the stock whp. The 330 will get +80 whp as well.

I think you're not understanding the problem and just making a statement to excite yourself. 80whp is a future number to begin with, it's not going to be released for a while. Remember the gain was 100whp just a month ago...

330's extra power (compared to 325) comes mostly, if not all of it, from 3stage IM. Yet Roman says 3 stage IM will only provide a gain of 2hp or so. So 325 and 330 will be rated at the same hp after the sc? If so, then either 325 will have bigger gains from the sc to be rated at the same hp as 330, or 330 will have lesser gains

[b-man]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

he's talking peak numbers though. that doesn't mean there's no difference elsewhere in the powerband.

I don't think there's any way to really know until somebody with a 3 stage puts one in and dynos it vs a 325i or 328i.

Just read this now That's right, but if the 3 stage doesn't make a difference then peak numbers should be the same, yet Roman said they all get 60 whp, meaning peak numbers are not the same.

I agree with the dyno comment, but if they're selling the product for all (almost) n52 and n51 engines, I'd expect them to provide dynos. I don't want to pay $5k hoping to get 60-80whp, and only get 45whp.

[rick100]

I was told before that the 3 stage intake does not add top end power thus when I did the AA tune the shop told me adding the 3 stage intake will not increase the power much more. It will however make the top end power useful in the lower band, which is why I guess most people say the car is a lot fast with the 3 stage and the AA tune.

AA tune does increase power but 3 stage does not do it by much.

I have also sen dynos from people doing the AA tune and then adding the 3 stage intake , the power increase was not really much , like 3-5 HP ...

[jc5988]

Originally Posted by rick100

I was told before that the 3 stage intake does not add top end power thus when I did the AA tune the shop told me adding the 3 stage intake will not increase the power much more. It will however make the top end power useful in the lower band, which is why I guess most people say the car is a lot fast with the 3 stage and the AA tune.

AA tune does increase power but 3 stage does not do it by much.

I have also sen dynos from people doing the AA tune and then adding the 3 stage intake , the power increase was not really much , like 3-5 HP ...

3 Stage best suit for street driving, highway acceleration are improved @ top gear. about 10-15 more tq avaliable around 70mph.

from 4500rpm and up still more then single stage, just you have to go through fluctuation of each stage, rather annoying if you got auto, livable with manual.

also upper end are being further restricted with exhaust/emission system.

[dtea604]

Originally Posted by rick100

80 is whp which would be around around 110 at crank so crank horsepower would be around 340 , which is higher than the 335 on paper( with not tune).

WHP would be around 280 or less assuming the 328 is making 200 whp ( maybe less)

For me that is a pretty respectable number for the 328... The is 350 , g37 , v6 camaro , v6 mustang and v8 challenger and 335 are around 300-350 HP at crank. Difference would be the 335 with a tune is not match for the rest but I dont see anyone putting a supercharger in their g37 and is350 or the v6 camaro or mustang

I used http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator4.php which is pretty accurate most of the time

It is also nice that their kit would be under 5k , a lot more affordable for a lot of people.

Seems like your not looking around hard enough. There are plenty of supercharged g37 a friendnof mind just parted out his is350 with a sc kit. He was running around 450whp and 420-440 wtq. My friends g37 is at 450whp and 460wtq.

[dtea604]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I've seen a few 335i builds on an automatic that far exceed those numbers.

+1 on this.

[Nordkeyz73]

Anyone receive their preorder yet?

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by dtea604

Seems like your not looking around hard enough. There are plenty of supercharged g37 a friendnof mind just parted out his is350 with a sc kit. He was running around 450whp and 420-440 wtq. My friends g37 is at 450whp and 460wtq.

that and the drivetrain losses aren't even close to 27%.. sheesh!

[rick100]

Originally Posted by dtea604

Seems like your not looking around hard enough. There are plenty of supercharged g37 a friendnof mind just parted out his is350 with a sc kit. He was running around 450whp and 420-440 wtq. My friends g37 is at 450whp and 460wtq.

I havent seen one yet in toronto... Im sure there are but its not common .. At least not where I live.

Mostly mustangs, camaros and challengers here. A lot of modified genesis , brz's , civics, GTIs, and STIs, 370z
There are tons of G37 and IS350 but they mostly look stock with an older person or chick driving them ... Personally I dont even like the G37 , it looks weird and I did not find it that much faster than the 328 (And I even test drove the IPL version) . I love the look of the G35 in the other hand

And Im sure the 328 can do 350 at the wheels because the shop I go to here in toronto has a 325 putting 340 at the wheels and its not even supercharged, all engine . Its a matter of how much you want to invest...

Personally if I wanted to ran over 400 at the wheels, it would have to be a weekend car or a car that I take to the track. I wouldnt even look at the G37 OR IS350. Its either a car with a turbocharger ( STI , 335) or a car that is already pushing close to that ( mustang, camaro , srt8, m3)... Leaning more towards the mustang , m3 ,challenger just because you can keep those cars for long and they have the timeless look and communitysupport ( the classics) and by support I dont mean the support of a bunch of 18 , 20 year old living in his parents basement buying fast used cars for under 20k .. I meant the older crew ... While the others (335, sti) are cool when new and for 5 years or so but as time passes people forget about them and they just move on ...

Having the choice of adding 80 at the wheels for under 5k is kind of nice. You ll be faster than most of those cars ( g37 , is350 , sti , maybe 335) in stock form.... At the end of the day 95% or more of people out there are driving their cars stock. Most people out there just do cosmetics (rims , tints ) and maybe add an exhaust ...



There are always going to be faster cars than your out there.... My buddy has a mustang gt and he is complaining that he gets smoke by vettes, ferrari's, cobras etc, etc . Now he wants a supercharger kit on his GT.

[DUI Elite]

Originally Posted by b-man

Is he saying 325+sc will pretty much have the same hp with 325+3IM+sc? That doesn't make sense. I'd imagine a 325+3IM+sc would be similar to a 330+sc. So 330+sc will have the same hp as 325+sc? Then 60whp over stock for 325, 328 and 330 is not correct.

Maybe the 3 stage doesn't make a big difference like he says, so the 325 will gain 60whp, but the 330 will only gain 50whp...

I'm glad someone else is seeing the contradiction here.

80 hp over stock on a 330 is not similar to 80 hp over stock on a 325. It would mean that the 325 is getting more than 80 hp gain from the SC "if the two will be similar in power"

To make it painfully clear without any wordiness: (I will still use the +80 whp calculation despite adding it to bhp. just bare with me, I know these are different calculations but it avoids factoring additional math that only involves constants)

330
255+80= 335hp

325
215+80= 295hp

Assuming he means that the final powers are similar, it means a) the 330 gains less than 80hp, or b) the 325 gains more than 80hp, since 295hp certainly isn't similar to 335hp.

If this is a wording issue, I will presume he means to say the CHANGE in power from stock (i.e. +80 hp) will be similar whether you have the 3stage or not. The final power will still be different -- meaning there is still a good reason to have the 3 stage intake manifold..

But again Roman, if you can clarify this, it would clear up a lot of ambiguity and speculations.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

I'm glad someone else is seeing the contradiction here.

80 hp over stock on a 330 is not similar to 80 hp over stock on a 325. It would mean that the 325 is getting more than 80 hp gain from the SC "if the two will be similar in power"

To make it painfully clear without any wordiness: (I will still use the +80 whp calculation despite adding it to bhp. just bare with me, I know these are different calculations but it avoids factoring additional math that only involves constants)

330
255+80= 335hp

325
215+80= 295hp

Assuming he means that the final powers are similar, it means a) the 330 gains less than 80hp, or b) the 325 gains more than 80hp, since 295hp certainly isn't similar to 335hp.

If this is a wording issue, I will presume he means to say the CHANGE in power from stock (i.e. +80 hp) will be similar whether you have the 3stage or not. The final power will still be different -- meaning there is still a good reason to have the 3 stage intake manifold..

But again Roman, if you can clarify this, it would clear up a lot of ambiguity and speculations.

correct if I;m wrong but since when the 325 is 255 HP with just the intake manifold .
I ve read numerous threads on this swap , and most people do not get the 330 effect just by doing the swap, thus most people do the AA tune when they do the swap and even then they still do not get 255 HP.

Once again , adding just the 3 stage intake does not increase your HP by much , you still need a good tune to go with it ... As far as I remember , it only unlocks your disa valve ...


I think Roman is just keeping it simple and saying the gains are 80whp for the 325, 328 , 330 to whatever stock HP they already have...

A lot of people are going to raise question about more power with tunes, headers, 3 stage intake , exhaust, etc ,etc . I highly doubt they ve tested all these combinations ...

[andrey_gta]

I think you also need to account for if the DISA 3 stage was added to the car.
If I recall they have been very good in showing 330i or maybe even x28i + disa dynos

Lets assume that the dyno with DISA was 330i, so its MSV70
From what we know,MSV80 328i + disa top out less than 330i in power by 10wbp when tuned. So a Super-charger should net a similar 10whp difference, maybe it could be 15 whp.
I recall being impressed by that DISA dyno, so even if its a bit less whp for a 328i, thats still awesome power

For a 325i, if tuned + original manifold it starts looking like a stock 328i anyway