Going on first tire change on 666M wheels. PSS or PS4S?

[noone]

Going on first tire change on 666M wheels, got 17,700 miles out of my 2018 M3 Competition.

I would say the stock PSS were great tires, but did lose traction pretty easily, even when new, and are absolutely ridiculous now even with 3mm left on rear tread. I can't even accelerate at all without serious wheel spin in M mode.

Has anyone recently gone with any of these options without issues and without spacers on stock M3 Comp?

1. PS4S - 265 front 295 back
2. PS4S - 265 front 285 back
3. PSS - 265 front 295 back.

[omega2733]

PS4S 265/30 front and 295/30 rear works great to keep traction in check. A lot more grip than stock.

[Jbrown7403]

Originally Posted by omega2733

PS4S 265/30 front and 295/30 rear works great to keep traction in check. A lot more grip than stock.

That’s my exact setup and I love it! 295/30/20 look so good from behind and I’ll never use anything other than Michelin PS4s. No need to go wider than 265 in front (I don’t think you can but I could be mistaken).

[noone]

Originally Posted by omega2733

PS4S 265/30 front and 295/30 rear works great to keep traction in check. A lot more grip than stock.

Thanks. My car is 100% stock and not lowered or anything. Will I be good with this without any rubbing?

[M3SQRD]

Although a 295 fits on a 10” wide wheel, a 285 on a 10” wheel will likely have more grip due to better support from the wheel. There are plenty of tire comparison tests that demonstrate stuffing a wider tire on a narrower rim doesn’t result in increased grip/performance. I once believed wider is better but I now know that’s generally not the case. A 295 will overhang a 10” wide wheel by ~0.4” on each side.

I’ve used PSS and PS4S tires on the same wheels and same tire sizes. PS4Ss definitely have more grip than PSSs but it’s not by a large amount. PS4S also has a softer sidewall so you have to run higher pressures to get the same steering and turn-in response as the PSS. You can’t go wrong with either tire but the PS4S is the newer tire.

If lack of grip is a concern then why not step up to a stickier tire? Stepping up to a tire with a slightly lower treadwear rating will give you considerably more grip but also slightly reduced tread life. I recently tried the Yoko v601 on my r56 Mini Cooper S, switching from PSS. The grip increase was considerably higher than what I was expecting and what the 280 TW rating suggested (PSS TW rating is 300). No increase in road noise and vibration but a slight increase in harshness due to a stiffer sidewall. BMW has homologated the Yoko v107 (240 TW rating) as an oem tire for the g8x and they’ve been using it on g8x M Performance wheel sets, too. I’d definitely consider the v107 and v601 tires if you’re looking for a tire with more grip.

[noone]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Although a 295 fits on a 10” wide wheel, a 285 on a 10” wheel will likely have more grip due to better support from the wheel. There are plenty of tire comparison tests that demonstrate stuffing a wider tire on a narrower rim doesn’t result in increased grip/performance. I once believed wider is better but I now know that’s generally not the case. A 295 will overhang a 10” wide wheel by ~0.4” on each side.

I’ve used PSS and PS4S tires on the same wheels and same tire sizes. PS4Ss definitely have more grip than PSSs but it’s not by a large amount. PS4S also has a softer sidewall so you have to run higher pressures to get the same steering and turn-in response as the PSS. You can’t go wrong with either tire but the PS4S is the newer tire.

If lack of grip is a concern then why not step up to a stickier tire? Stepping up to a tire with a slightly lower treadwear rating will give you considerably more grip but also slightly reduced tread life. I recently tried the Yoko v601 on my r56 Mini Cooper S, switching from PSS. The grip increase was considerably higher than what I was expecting and what the 280 TW rating suggested (PSS TW rating is 300). No increase in road noise and vibration but a slight increase in harshness due to a stiffer sidewall. BMW has homologated the Yoko v107 (240 TW rating) as an oem tire for the g8x and they’ve been using it on g8x M Performance wheel sets, too. I’d definitely consider the v107 and v601 tires if you’re looking for a tire with more grip.

Interesting. I've never even considered any other tire than Michelin, just have always felt Michelin was the premium tire.

This car is a 3 day work week daily driver. I want it to handle ok in the rain, but also want to be able to floor it at a red light and have it hook up decent on my non tuned car. Also want to be able to take a corner sharp, although I'm sure any of these tires handle cornering just fine.

A lot to unpack here and think about from these responses.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noone

Interesting. I've never even considered any other tire than Michelin, just have always felt Michelin was the premium tire.

This car is a 3 day work week daily driver. I want it to handle ok in the rain, but also want to be able to floor it at a red light and have it hook up decent on my non tuned car. Also want to be able to take a corner sharp, although I'm sure any of these tires handle cornering just fine.

A lot to unpack here and think about from these responses.

Michelin tires are one of top tire manufacturers. The Pilot Sport line, which started with the PS1 on the e46 M3, is probably the most successful line of tires from any manufacturer. However, it’s far from the being the grippiest tire on the market. Yokohama and Bridgestone offer some of the grippiest tires in the A052 and RE71RS, respectively. Goodyear, Continental and Hankook also make grippier tires. It’s the tires in the Extreme Performance category that offer superior grip whereas the PS4S is in the Max Performance category. The tread compounds in the extreme category are very soft and the sidewalls are extremely stiff compared to the PS4S. PS4S is the best DD tire performance tire but there are other Max Performance tires that have more grip than the PS4S and then there’s the Extreme Performance category that are a nice step up in grip but they wear faster and are a bit stiffer/harsher. I noticed your comment about wanting more grip so I wanted to give you an “FYI”.

[noone]

Are the Yokos you mentioned a stiffer ride than PS4S?

I’m assuming this -

Stiffness/harsh drive - Yoko > PS4S > PSS

Grip - Yoko > PS4S > PSS

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noone

Are the Yokos you mentioned a stiffer ride than PS4S?

I’m assuming this -

Stiffness/harsh drive - Yoko > PS4S > PSS

Grip - Yoko > PS4S > PSS

Yes, Yoko is a little bit stiffer than PS4S. There was a small but detectable increase in harshness on our short-wheelbase R56 Mini Cooper S. Noticeable increase in performance/grip. Similar wear rate.

In the sizes I’ve used when replacing PSS with PS4S (275/35-18, 285/35-18, 265/35-19 and 305/30-19), the PS4S has a softer sidewall than PSS.

So I’d say:

Stiffness/harshness - Yoko > PSS >= PS4S

When my PS4S need to be replaced, I’m going with the Yoko v601 or, if I decide I want a much higher grip tire for the street, the Yoko A052 (which I’ve used on track on an e92 M3).

[noone]

What’s road noise?

Yoko > PS4S > PSS

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noone

What’s road noise?

Yoko > PS4S > PSS

Road noise is the “rumble” of “hum” you’ll hear in the cabin as background noise. Have you ever heard a trunk with 40” diameter tires drive by? That’s tire/road noise. It’s a function of tread pattern, tread depth, tire compound, suspension geometry (e.g., a tire with more toe-in will make more road noise than a tire with zero toe-in), etc. Once the tread blocks on the inner most and outer most edges of a tire become feathered (uneven wear with a lip that you can feel as you run your hand around the tread), the road noise becomes much louder, more annoying and more rhythmic/repetitive in nature.

I would rate them all pretty much equal. Tires from the Extreme Performance category tend to generate more road noise than tires from the Max Performance category.

[noone]

Thanks. I think I’m sold on the Yokos now. Seem like a massive grip improvement. And I guess I should stay with 285 on rear.

Edit - the more I think about this, and I'm glad I've been, I think I'm just going to stay with the PS4S. The reviews on PS4S are much better than Yoko and I do value ride quality and tire noise as well. I have 17k on my stock PSS and the tires are really great except doe the real wheel spin. They are quiet and firm but not too firm. I don't want to give that up going with a Yoko tire. There must be a reason why the Yokos are $1000 for 4 tires while the PS4S are $1700 for 4, and not just the brand name.