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      08-01-2011, 08:34 AM   #89
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      08-01-2011, 09:46 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisemyrent View Post
I disagree; Hamilton had a spin and stayed right on the track, which is pretty narrow (not saying he did it on purpose). Then with complete disregard to the fact that there are other cars coming at very high speeds, he proceeded to sort himself out right there and then. He knew they were there behind him, or at least how close they were. Di Resta even went off track to avoid him, and he wasn't a backmarker. No one was expecting Hamilton to NOT wait, which is what everyone does all the time when they end up facing the wrong way...
He was in the middle of the track facing the wrong way, you can't expect him to just sit there like a sitting duck ON the racing line. Not only would that be equally hazardous, he would have ended up in about the same place he did after his drive through. If he had just driven off the track, he would have ran a risk of even getting a DNF because of how wet the area was.

Sorry, but these are racing drivers. They are in it to win and F1 has a long history if you need a reminder on to what extent these drivers will go to win. (Including ramming other cars off the track) I'd say this was pretty miniscule.

Also, I see the situation as Hamilton took the right action at the right time to get out of a incredibly dangerous situation relatively cleanly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raisemyrent View Post
mm all fires are different, and there aren't that many. so chances are things could blow up if you let them burn for long enough... just a theory. one thing they MIGHT comment on is the fact that they kept going even though things were obviously going very badly (even heidfeld said he was hoping the wind would put it out). hard to say, it happens very fast.
I don't think the issue of the fire was as big of a concern as the explosion that followed. I imagine the explosion may have been from the radiator in the sidepod, which could be seen as a potential design issue since they have their exhaust running just below their engine radiators.

I don't think the FIA will force a change, it was just speculation after all. But I wouldn't be surprised if something did come out of it though.
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      08-01-2011, 09:52 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by xbook View Post
I beg to differ. Please refer the '08 Itialian GP, his first win in F1.
I'll check on this when I have some time coming up.
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      08-01-2011, 09:55 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I remember DC was quite sharp on catching those penalties. He pointed out Heikki (?) overtook someone when Nick Heidfeld's exploded and overtook under yellow flag immediately, as well as Lewis's recovery.
Pretty sure that Brundle and Coulthard decided that it shouldn't be a penalty before the Stewards even raised it for discussion. You are right though, DC had an Eagle eye that last race.
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      08-01-2011, 09:55 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Well, the Speed commentators are pretty close to being functionally retarded, so it doesn't surprise me that they missed the penalty call.After listening to Martin Brundle, David Coulthard, and Eddie Jordan call the races, I just can't even stand to listen to Varsha, Hobbs, and Matchett. The guys on Speed just sound so uninformed about the sport they are commentating on. Yes Hobbs drive an F1 car 40 years ago, and Matchett used to turn a wrench on one 15+ years ago, but they have NO current experience with this sport and the cars. Listening to Varsha talk about F1 is like listening to someone who just read his first Autosport magazine telling you all about F1.
so true, the biggest diff btwn the two broadcast, is SPEED just relays information, while the BBC explain why is happening.

One example I can think of, there was a radio message from RBR to Webber about his KERS, Varsha then basically repeats the message word for word and then goes on to talk about what KERS is. While the DC on the other hand, went on to explain the reason why they wanted Webber only using KERS in certain situations

As Martin Brundle said, DC is such a good commentator, cause he was recently in an F1 car and know whats going on from a drivers perspective, while Hobbs, Matcheett and Varsha are just regular spectators like any of us
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      08-01-2011, 09:56 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
He was in the middle of the track facing the wrong way, you can't expect him to just sit there like a sitting duck ON the racing line. Not only would that be equally hazardous, he would have ended up in about the same place he did after his drive through. If he had just driven off the track, he would have ran a risk of even getting a DNF because of how wet the area was.

Sorry, but these are racing drivers. They are in it to win and F1 has a long history if you need a reminder on to what extent these drivers will go to win. (Including ramming other cars off the track) I'd say this was pretty miniscule.

Also, I see the situation as Hamilton took the right action at the right time to get out of a incredibly dangerous situation relatively cleanly.
I'd say he was screwed either way. Maybe it was dangerous to stay put and wait till the track "clears". But instinct for racing drivers was to recover asap and get back on the race.

by doing that however, di Resta was coming towards the chicane and had to avoid him by going off the track.

Let me provide an example, Australian GP 2010, First Lap Turn 1, Fernando Alonso was pitted and facing the wrong way. He had to wait till the whole field passed then he can execute the recovery.

Mark Webber, Canada 2011, he recovered almost immediately after spun out between turn 1 and 2. But that was because he was on the pit exit area where no other cars around. Then he was able to join the traffic flow and continue racing.

My point was, drivers can only make recover when there are no other cars coming near you. Hamilton might be able to avoid the penalty if he waited till di Resta passed. Given he claimed he wasn't able to see di Resta coming and executed the recover. Well, Paul had to avoid and went off.
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      08-01-2011, 09:58 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I'll check on this when I have some time coming up.
I recall Vettel's first win in STR and RBR, were both in heavy rain condition throughout the race and started behind a safety car. He might be a wet master, but still a bit lacking in "changing condition".
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      08-01-2011, 09:58 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I'd say he was screwed either way. Maybe it was dangerous to stay put and wait till the track "clears". But instinct for racing drivers was to recover asap and get back on the race.

by doing that however, di Resta was coming towards the chicane and had to avoid him by going off the track.

Let me provide an example, Australian GP 2010, First Lap Turn 1, Fernando Alonso was pitted and facing the wrong way. He had to wait till the whole field passed then he can execute the recovery.

Mark Webber, Canada 2011, he recovered almost immediately after spun out between turn 1 and 2. But that was because he was on the pit exit area where no other cars around. Then he was able to join the traffic flow and continue racing.

My point was, drivers can only make recover when there are no other cars coming near you. Hamilton might be able to avoid the penalty if he waited till di Resta passed. Given he claimed he wasn't able to see di Resta coming and executed the recover. Well, Paul had to avoid and went off.
I agree with most of this. The fact that Di Resta went off track seals it. I mostly just think there really wasn't any of better option for Hamilton at that point. No other alternative would have resulted in any better of an outcome.

Also, Button was right behind Di Resta coming out of the chicane. If Hamilton had waited on di Resta, being a backmarker at the time, he would have also had to wait on Button entirely.
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      08-01-2011, 10:01 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by escobar929 View Post
so true, the biggest diff btwn the two broadcast, is SPEED just relays information, while the BBC explain why is happening.

One example I can think of, there was a radio message from RBR to Webber about his KERS, Varsha then basically repeats the message word for word and then goes on to talk about what KERS is. While the DC on the other hand, went on to explain the reason why they wanted Webber only using KERS in certain situations

As Martin Brundle said, DC is such a good commentator, cause he was recently in an F1 car and know whats going on from a drivers perspective, while Hobbs, Matcheett and Varsha are just regular spectators like any of us
DC actually surprised me this season. I thought he wasn't that good in commentating throughout the race, but only in pre-race and post-race interviews and such.

He was very sharp in terms of regulation (given his last F1 race was only a few years ago, and still does a lot RBR promotion around the world, as well as continuing on DTM racing), as well as drivers possibly broke any regulations.

And this year, Brundle gives us the excitement, but made a few minor mistakes by recognize the wrong car or small stuff. BBC had a great team this season.
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      08-01-2011, 10:04 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I agree with most of this. The fact that Di Resta went off track seals it. I mostly just think there really wasn't any of better option for Hamilton at that point. No other alternative would have resulted in any better of an outcome.

Also, Button was right behind Di Resta coming out of the chicane. If Hamilton had waited on Di Resta, being a backmarker at he time, he would have also had to wait on Button entirely.
I recall there are a few other cars coming too (don't forget Hungary was a very short track), so either way is bad for him and there weren't any other paved escape route for him too. Its a big "Doh" mistake from him.
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      08-01-2011, 10:06 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
He was in the middle of the track facing the wrong way, you can't expect him to just sit there like a sitting duck ON the racing line. Not only would that be equally hazardous, he would have ended up in about the same place he did after his drive through. If he had just driven off the track, he would have ran a risk of even getting a DNF because of how wet the area was.

Sorry, but these are racing drivers. They are in it to win and F1 has a long history if you need a reminder on to what extent these drivers will go to win. (Including ramming other cars off the track) I'd say this was pretty miniscule.

Also, I see the situation as Hamilton took the right action at the right time to get out of a incredibly dangerous situation relatively cleanly.
I think the penalty was a close call but its one of those things that a guy w/ Hamiltons reputation is just not going to escape. any other driver may not have gotten one but I was really impressed by how he handled himself after the race
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      08-01-2011, 10:08 AM   #100
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By the way, i think there's more failure on the Renault. I do not think the car will just disintegrate itself by sitting just 20 seconds. Otherwise, it could've burn itself on the grid start.

I wonder if the FIA will say something to Renault now given is more and more like a safety concern and reliability issue.
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      08-01-2011, 10:37 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
By the way, i think there's more failure on the Renault. I do not think the car will just disintegrate itself by sitting just 20 seconds. Otherwise, it could've burn itself on the grid start.

I wonder if the FIA will say something to Renault now given is more and more like a safety concern and reliability issue.
Boullier suggested post race that Heidlfeld might have been running on the rev limiter. Though, it seems unlikely. Definitely didn't hear it.
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      08-01-2011, 11:11 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I'm glad Heidfeld got out ok, but that was certainly an exciting moment. I wonder if the FIA might force Renault to correct their exhausts as a result from that.
Looks like the KERS batteries have exploded

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      08-01-2011, 12:46 PM   #103
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Looks like the KERS batteries have exploded

That's a great video!
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      08-01-2011, 01:12 PM   #104
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I worked for Renault F1 and my friend did the exhaust design. I will ask some questions next time I meet him.
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      08-01-2011, 01:41 PM   #105
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      08-01-2011, 01:42 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Probably some seemed harsh as di Resta were no where near fighting with Hamilton. But as far as the stewards concern, regardless did he see di Resta coming or not. His recovery forced the Force India driver off the track to avoid him. Is that simple.

I remember DC was quite sharp on catching those penalties. He pointed out Heikki (?) overtook someone when Nick Heidfeld's exploded and overtook under yellow flag immediately, as well as Lewis's recovery.
It wasn't just the fact that he forced di Resta off the track. Spinning your car around in the middle of a narrow track directly INTO opposing traffic is incredibly dangerous. If di Resta hadn't been alert at that point, it could have been a really nasty accident.

If you see other incidents where people spin, they always wait for a break in opposing traffic before getting back on the track/spinning back around.
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      08-01-2011, 02:12 PM   #107
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It wasn't just the fact that he forced di Resta off the track. Spinning your car around in the middle of a narrow track directly INTO opposing traffic is incredibly dangerous. If di Resta hadn't been alert at that point, it could have been a really nasty accident.

If you see other incidents where people spin, they always wait for a break in opposing traffic before getting back on the track/spinning back around.
Unless you're Michael Schumacher, in Abu Dhabi 2010.
You're screwed anyways!!!!

Probably its better for Lewis to wait it out for the traffic to pass, but he's keen to get back to the race. Also, who knows if di Resta would see him or not and collide. Its always dangerous to just sit in the middle of the track where its just the exit of a corner/chicane.
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      08-01-2011, 02:55 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
It wasn't just the fact that he forced di Resta off the track. Spinning your car around in the middle of a narrow track directly INTO opposing traffic is incredibly dangerous. If di Resta hadn't been alert at that point, it could have been a really nasty accident.

If you see other incidents where people spin, they always wait for a break in opposing traffic before getting back on the track/spinning back around.
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Unless you're Michael Schumacher, in Abu Dhabi 2010.
You're screwed anyways!!!!

Probably its better for Lewis to wait it out for the traffic to pass, but he's keen to get back to the race. Also, who knows if di Resta would see him or not and collide. Its always dangerous to just sit in the middle of the track where its just the exit of a corner/chicane.
As was previously mentioned. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. Basically, just the worst possible place he could have spun.
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      08-01-2011, 07:08 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Unless you're Michael Schumacher, in Abu Dhabi 2010.
You're screwed anyways!!!!

Probably its better for Lewis to wait it out for the traffic to pass, but he's keen to get back to the race. Also, who knows if di Resta would see him or not and collide. Its always dangerous to just sit in the middle of the track where its just the exit of a corner/chicane.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I'm certainly not bitter about his action or anything - in the heat of moment, spinning out the lead, it's very hard to judge what to do.

Not a fan of Hamilton's, but I definitely feel for him. I certainly would have liked for him to finish ahead of Vettel, in order to keep the championship somewhat alive.
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      08-01-2011, 08:57 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Unless you're Michael Schumacher, in Abu Dhabi 2010.
You're screwed anyways!!!!

Probably its better for Lewis to wait it out for the traffic to pass, but he's keen to get back to the race. Also, who knows if di Resta would see him or not and collide. Its always dangerous to just sit in the middle of the track where its just the exit of a corner/chicane.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I'm certainly not bitter about his action or anything - in the heat of moment, spinning out the lead, it's very hard to judge what to do.

Not a fan of Hamilton's, but I definitely feel for him. I certainly would have liked for him to finish ahead of Vettel, in order to keep the championship somewhat alive.
Speaking of Lewis, I applaud him yesterday for the post race interview. He had no anger or frustration at all (regardless if he hidden his emotion or not), not pointing fingers or blaming others for his unfortunate events. Great attitude yesterday all around!
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