[talisman311]

Originally Posted by P1et

I'm absolutely shocked at these responses. Are the three of you really implying there is something wrong with being educated or getting an education?

Being educated isn't only about learning the skills that will eventually apply to your career. It builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us. It's helps us create a better society for us and the ones around us.

I don't have an issue with it.. as long as the people receiving it understanding they might not have a great life (imo) with certain degrees/educations...

Unfortunately, in the american society, money is the foundation of life. It buys food, shelter, clothes, healthcare, transportation, etc. Just about everything revolves around it. My friends with the low demand degrees all but wish they had done something else when they see me not worrying about living paycheck to paycheck and not really having to think if I can afford taking certain vacations, doing nice things for others, etc. that require money..

[ibarry92]

Originally Posted by P1et

I'm absolutely shocked at these responses. Are the three of you really implying there is something wrong with being educated or getting an education?

Being educated isn't only about learning the skills that will eventually apply to your career. It builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us. It's helps us create a better society for us and the ones around us.

+1000000000

My general education courses such as: literature, comparative politics, sociology, psychology, cultural psychology, psychology of women, speech, theatre, etc. has had a greater impact on my development/maturity then most of my life experiences to this point (which includes traveling throughout dozens of countries, living abroad, and bring semi-dependent). I can gladly say that I am much more mature then others my age and even older. This is coming from an electrical/computer engineering student. Take away the engineering skills/mindset of most engineers and they won't even know how to be "adequately human" in regards the values, mentality, etc. that we believe a society should have.

I recall a member here once said that most engineers in Silicon Valley believe that the equation for getting a female is nice car, nice clothes, and the money because they believe that their success and material will override their personality and character.

Those degrees may seem pointless to some, but they provide a great degree of self-awareness and appreciation. Learning about myself and the world around me is always fascinating. That psychology of women course has definitely altered the way I perceive woman. Im sure if some if those Silicon Valley engineers took the course, they would have a better and much more successful method for pick up females.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by Mayhew

Are people really advocating NOT to get a college degree?

The best thing in life is education, the motivation shouldn't just be about making more money.

Of course there are real world things that you will never learn in school, but that shouldn't diminsh how important an education can be.

Genius probably do not need to go to standard academic path, but I am not that smart. So, I did took the standard academic path.

[NEFARIOUS]

It's all subjective... There's nothing wrong with education per se, but just the system behind it is complete and utter bullcrap. Sure, it's great to have a decent and proper education, but it's not worth 6 figures of debt in my opinion, whether what you do with the rest of your life after school is relevant to your degree or worse, going to school for all this time and like lots of folks here in America, graduating college and doing something not related to your trade, or the worst ones of all: Going to school for something you either never cared for in the beginning, or never fully researched the trade and regret spending years of your life learning about it to apply it to something that you became desensitized to. Why do I say that? I'm one.

The highest piece of collegiate paper I hold is a vocational certificate for Pharmacy Technician; my dad forced me into it after the .com Bubble burst, and I only chose that major since it *allegedly* held the highest possible pay that school offered ($18-20/hr in 2003), but I had a guilty conscience after learning the truth about the pharmaceutical industry and shifted my focus to other things... I am 29 units from getting an Associate's and could easily pass CIS given 12 years of IT experience, which spans informally as being able to resolve computer problems for friends and family, 1-2 jobs working as an IT Tech, and some years the owner of a repair company, but I also need to take all the other BS classes that hold little value in society in order to get my degree. Do I have the time and money to get it? Nope. Do employers REALLY look at degrees anymore? Hardly; now every job listing I've ever seen mostly deals with experience rather than education... But then again, it's all subjective and I'm not here to squash the people that happens to value what they have learned from those classes.

What is college to me nowadays? YOU paying someone proving that YOU'RE able to regurgitate stuff from a book in exchange for a fancy-looking piece of paper, and the less it has to do with your major, the less interesting it is and therefore the less you remember... I can remember that 1 GB = 1,048,576 kilobytes and can regurgitate factors of 4 or 1,024 no problem (since most computer media are based on those 2 integers), but have no clue how to solve X=y2j÷asdf98jaf9josijasfoijsafd*439sdfg80sd517987d nhg5, yet not learn a damned thing that has any value in real life like how to build and maintain credit, goal setting, essential life skills that are not influenced by upbringing, or even common trivial but burning questions like (INB4 flame, I know the answer), why District Columbia is named that way, especially since it has nothing to do with Columbia in South America... Which brings me to why regurgitation has its problems and limits.

Sure, you can be well-read in your field, but is it well-read in the perspective that you can memorize what you learned staying up all night trying to store in short-term memory but forget it once you finally get some sleep afterwards, or well-read and absorbing what you learned into long-term memory and can effectively recall it the next morning or even a year from now? What if the short-term doctor was the one that is going to have his first surgery on you since he graduated med school but can't remember which valve to cut, but passed med school with flying colors? Those are the things I consider.

In short, unless you're learning something you're truly passionate about or if other people's lives are at stake, college is nothing but highway robbery, forcing people into debt for not a lot in return. I could say more, but I have other things to worry about as of the moment... But this movie sums up my sentiments exactly.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

It's all subjective... There's nothing wrong with education per se, but just the system behind it is complete and utter bullcrap. Sure, it's great to have a decent and proper education, but it's not worth 6 figures of debt in my opinion, whether what you do with the rest of your life after school is relevant to your degree or worse, going to school for all this time and like lots of folks here in America, graduating college and doing something not related to your trade, or the worst ones of all: Going to school for something you either never cared for in the beginning, or never fully researched the trade and regret spending years of your life learning about it to apply it to something that you became desensitized to. Why do I say that? I'm one.

The highest piece of collegiate paper I hold is a vocational certificate for Pharmacy Technician; my dad forced me into it after the .com Bubble burst, and I only chose that major since it *allegedly* held the highest possible pay that school offered ($18-20/hr in 2003), but I had a guilty conscience after learning the truth about the pharmaceutical industry and shifted my focus to other things... I am 29 units from getting an Associate's and could easily pass CIS given 12 years of IT experience, which spans informally as being able to resolve computer problems for friends and family, 1-2 jobs working as an IT Tech, and some years the owner of a repair company, but I also need to take all the other BS classes that hold little value in society in order to get my degree. Do I have the time and money to get it? Nope. Do employers REALLY look at degrees anymore? Hardly; now every job listing I've ever seen mostly deals with experience rather than education... But then again, it's all subjective and I'm not here to squash the people that happens to value what they have learned from those classes.

What is college to me nowadays? YOU paying someone proving that YOU'RE able to regurgitate stuff from a book in exchange for a fancy-looking piece of paper, and the less it has to do with your major, the less interesting it is and therefore the less you remember... I can remember that 1 GB = 1,048,576 kilobytes and can regurgitate factors of 4 or 1,024 no problem (since most computer media are based on those 2 integers), but have no clue how to solve X=y2j÷asdf98jaf9josijasfoijsafd*439sdfg80sd517987d nhg5, yet not learn a damned thing that has any value in real life like how to build and maintain credit, goal setting, essential life skills that are not influenced by upbringing, or even common trivial but burning questions like (INB4 flame, I know the answer), why District Columbia is named that way, especially since it has nothing to do with Columbia in South America... Which brings me to why regurgitation has its problems and limits.

Sure, you can be well-read in your field, but is it well-read in the perspective that you can memorize what you learned staying up all night trying to store in short-term memory but forget it once you finally get some sleep afterwards, or well-read and absorbing what you learned into long-term memory and can effectively recall it the next morning or even a year from now? What if the short-term doctor was the one that is going to have his first surgery on you since he graduated med school but can't remember which valve to cut, but passed med school with flying colors? Those are the things I consider.

In short, unless you're learning something you're truly passionate about or if other people's lives are at stake, college is nothing but highway robbery, forcing people into debt for not a lot in return. I could say more, but I have other things to worry about as of the moment... But this movie sums up my sentiments exactly.

My former co-worker went to Purdue for undergrad, and he only paid like $900/sem. I paid about $1200-1400/sem tuition alone. Yes, 1200-1400 back then is different $. Yes , I am aware that Gold was trading under ~$300/oz , and regular octane was selling at ~$1.90/gal during my first 2yrs of undergrad. It was affordable without a loan. I remember some kids were working summer jobs, and saving for their 1st year tuition and R&B.

I really should not comment further on current tuition rate.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Every major you mentioned is worthless.

Worthless is in the eye of the beholder....

I have a friend who got his PhD in philosophy, at one of the best schools in the nation. There are generally two schools that are considered THE best, one is in CA, the other in MA. He got his on the west coast.

With that degree, he can easily find a job at a state university. It is difficult to find a job at a school of the caliber where he earned his degree. It is impossible to find a job with tenure anywhere (that in itself may be a failing of our educational system).

If one measures life in 335i turbos, he has none, so he failed even worse than a 15 y.o. whose daddy bought him a N54 with his bonus last Dec. But maybe my friend knows a little more than the average Joe.

[Templar]

lol

[ASAP]

TBH... Outside of Engineering, medical related and Business degrees, the latter being something you really have to know how to put to use... I also don't think there is a point in even going to College. The meme above is quite accurate.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by P1et

Being educated isn't only about learning the skills that will eventually apply to your career. It builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us. It's helps us create a better society for us and the ones around us.

again, from my own experience, the Marines taught me a thousand times more life lessons than any stupid ass college would have...

spend 12 weeks getting killed in bootcamp and then stay locked and cocked on a Marine Corps Base for 4 years where timeliness, integrity, tenacity, appearance and honor are at the forefront of your every day life....

wake up late in college as an 18 year old and show up late to a class - who cares, "we're in college ya'll wooohooo - partied sooo hard last night with pizza and weed !!!!"

show up late to a formation in the Marines and you essentially get punished, money taken away from you and are taught that at 18 you're supposed to conduct yourself like a responsible adult, not some civilian trash in college...

p.s.
lol @ art and history majors

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Mayhew

Well, maybe just proper grammar.

how is that sentence wrong ??

[P1]

Originally Posted by Litos

again, from my own experience, the Marines taught me a thousand times more life lessons than any stupid ass college would have...

spend 12 weeks getting killed in bootcamp and then stay locked and cocked on a Marine Corps Base for 4 years where timeliness, integrity, tenacity, appearance and honor are at the forefront of your every day life....

wake up late in college as an 18 year old and show up late to a class - who cares, "we're in college ya'll wooohooo - partied sooo hard last night with pizza and weed !!!!"

show up late to a formation in the Marines and you essentially get punished, money taken away from you and are taught that at 18 you're supposed to conduct yourself like a responsible adult, not some civilian trash in college...

p.s.
lol @ art and history majors

Again: I said that *any* form of education is valuable. This includes going to University. So if you think that you become educated spending four years in the Marines, then great. But blanket statements saying you learned a thousand more life lessons being in the Marines vs. someone going to college is silly. You don't know, because you didn't go.

Let me ask you this: do you consider West Point a "stupid ass college" also?

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by P1et

Again: I said that *any* form of education is valuable. This includes going to University. So if you think that you become educated spending four years in the Marines, then great. But blanket statements saying you learned a thousand more life lessons being in the Marines vs. someone going to college is silly. You don't know, because you didn't go.

Oh snap, them fighting words me be reading.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by P1et

Let me ask you this: do you consider West Point a "stupid ass college" also?

you can't say it is because you didn't go.......

only reason I brought up life lessons in the Marines was because you took the angle of "builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us"...

college isn't the only entity that will teach you that - military based colleges and the actual military will give you that moreso than 98% of colleges in the country....

you think kids in Nebraska or Miami care much about timeliness, appearance, honor and courage !?!? lmfao......

you think kids at UCLA or Duke wake up at 5am to have their supervisor come in to inspect how clean their rooms are !?!? then go on a 4 mile run and then be back at work at 8am !?!? lmfao.....

[P1]

Originally Posted by Litos

you can't say it is because you didn't go.......

only reason I brought up life lessons in the Marines was because you took the angle of "builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us"...

college isn't the only entity that will teach you that - military based colleges and the actual military will give you that moreso than 98% of colleges in the country....

you think kids in Nebraska or Miami care much about timeliness, appearance, honor and courage !?!? lmfao......

you think kids at UCLA or Duke wake up at 5am to have their supervisor come in to inspect how clean their rooms are !?!? then go on a 4 mile run and then be back at work at 8am !?!? lmfao.....

I didn't need college to teach me to wake up early or keep my room clean; my parents taught me that. And not that it matters, but my first job was delivering the campus newspaper. That was from 4am until 8am, which meant I had to get up at 3:30am to start my walk over there. Needless to say, that was not sustainable as I'd fall asleep during my 9am classes.

And no, I didn't go to West Point so I cannot say I would have been more or less educated vs. going to UT. But shit, I'd be proud as hell if I had graduated from there!

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by P1et

I'm absolutely shocked at these responses. Are the three of you really implying there is something wrong with being educated or getting an education?

Being educated isn't only about learning the skills that will eventually apply to your career. It builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us. It's helps us create a better society for us and the ones around us.

Is going to college the only path to being educated? I "educate" myself on a daily basis from the world wide web. Of the things you've listed, I'm quite sure it can be acquired elsewhere...and yes, I did go unlike that stupid Litos guy with a hot wife, 2 cute kids and a great job. [insert sarcasm] for the Sheldons on this forum.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by P1et

I didn't need college to teach me to wake up early or keep my room clean; my parents taught me that. And not that it matters, but my first job was delivering the campus newspaper. That was from 4am until 8am, which meant I had to get up at 3:30am to start my walk over there. Needless to say, that was not sustainable as I'd fall asleep during my 9am classes.

And no, I didn't go to West Point so I cannot say I would have been more or less educated vs. going to UT. But shit, I'd be proud as hell if I had graduated from there!

I went to both, so I'm pretty qualified to participate in this conversation.

Army gave me the best friends I have in life. It gave me a no shit attitude, that is pretty useful in life, and it gave me lessons in life that I value highly. I indeed knew before how to clean and wake up too, so those are not on that list. I had a job like yours during uni, and falling a sleep in class has happened a lot too. My formal education gives me the freedom that the army taught me to enjoy.

Originally Posted by Nkc

Is going to college the only path to being educated? I "educate" myself on a daily basis from the world wide web. Of the things you've listed, I'm quite sure it can be acquired elsewhere...and yes, I did go unlike that stupid Litos guy with a hot wife, 2 cute kids and a great job. [insert sarcasm] for the Sheldons on this forum.

I read a lot too, but the formal education gives me filters to deal with information. It also provides me the knowledge of not judging people by their backgrounds, but merely on merits, usually well shown in text format. I don't classify anyone stupid for the lack of education, especially here, where the price of getting one is too high for many. Playing these two sides against each other is quite pointless, the street smart card is so old one to pull and some of the biggest idiots I have met have had the best of educations.

My kids on the other hand can do as they please, I will support them while they are in school, if they choose to get a job and be merry, they can enjoy the fruits of their labor on their own. If they become engineers, they will not get invited home for Christmas.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Is going to college the only path to being educated? I "educate" myself on a daily basis from the world wide web. Of the things you've listed, I'm quite sure it can be acquired elsewhere...and yes, I did go unlike that stupid Litos guy with a hot wife, 2 cute kids and a great job. [insert sarcasm] for the Sheldons on this forum.

I think there's too much bullshit on the internet to consider it a real education source generally. You sure can learn a lot, I know I have, but you need to know what to look for and what to filter out. There's too many "wikipedia warriors" out there now, they think they know how to do vector calculus because they read about it on wikipedia or something... That's just an example, not a shot at learning from all online publications. There's a lot of good info out there.

I agree with someone else that posted earlier, I think this topic (or a similar one) was beat to death in a few other threads, and people get all fired up over it for no real reason. Going to college and having a degree doesn't automatically mean success in life. Some people really take advantage of their education and use it accordingly, while others are looking for a "golden ticket" to a good job but don't have the drive to see it through.

Higher education can be a great tool, but it's only a piece of the overall puzzle. If you don't know where to fit it, you'll still be behind. One thing the military did teach me (that I didn't really do before), you have to be well rounded (smarts, health, sociable, morals, etc). Success in my eyes is having a good family, good friends, and living a comfortable lifestyle. You can be filthy rich and smart but still be an ugly asshole with no friends and no time for family. Is that real success? Not to me... but to each his own.

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by Lups

I went to both, so I'm pretty qualified to participate in this conversation.

With your post count (not including OT ones), I'm pretty sure you feel qualified to participate in EVERY conversation. btw, I'm not calling anyone stupid Sheldon.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by John 070

Worthless is in the eye of the beholder....

I have a friend who got his PhD in philosophy, at one of the best schools in the nation. There are generally two schools that are considered THE best, one is in CA, the other in MA. He got his on the west coast.

With that degree, he can easily find a job at a state university. It is difficult to find a job at a school of the caliber where he earned his degree. It is impossible to find a job with tenure anywhere (that in itself may be a failing of our educational system).

If one measures life in 335i turbos, he has none, so he failed even worse than a 15 y.o. whose daddy bought him a N54 with his bonus last Dec. But maybe my friend knows a little more than the average Joe.

Generally speaking the demand for academia jobs far exceeds the supply. This isn't just true for philosophy. It's true for pretty much every discipline. Academia is one of the most brutal, cutthroat, and poorly paid systems out there. You publish or you die (figuratively). You bring in grant money or you die. It's incredibly stressful and if you don't publish enough during your early years you'll be disqualified from tenure forever. Granted, it's rare, but it happens.

If you're encouraging, say, a 16 year old with aspirations to pursue a degree in philosophy that he or she shouldn't worry because she can "easily" find a job in academia after school, then you're doing her a disservice. That's just not true. Your friend is probably exceptionally bright. He's an outlier among a sea of philosophy majors who find themselves working retail or in food service.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Nkc

With your post count (not including OT ones), I'm pretty sure you feel qualified to participate in EVERY conversation. btw, I'm not calling anyone stupid Sheldon.

Outch, that'll hurt till the end of time...

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by Lups

Outch, that'll hurt till the end of time...

Just make sure you don't sound too "authoritative" or "sure of yourself," else you'll piss NKC off. He's a sensitive guy.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Just make sure you don't sound too "authoritative" or "sure of yourself," else you'll piss NKC off. He's a sensitive guy.

Haha, my virtual balls have been tested on many occasions and they have proven their merits when needed also going against a pair of organic ones. My virtual world is big enough to take a jab like that.

We have a saying that the dog that howls the loudest is the one who took the hit hardest. It translates badly, but it basically means the the one pointing the thing out usually has a personal reason to notice it. ;-)