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      09-16-2005, 08:04 PM   #1
orso
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Help with dealer disaster??

Folks, after falling in love with the car - always a mistake, I suppose - I negotiated a price with the dealer: 41,882 for a 330i, Premium with black leather, Sports, Cold Weather, Comfort, Power SunShades, Nav, TiAG, and 6 CD changer. Three times he confirmed the price and the option list (sales tax and license separate) and I asked explicitly if that included Nav and he said yes each time. I sent him an email with that option list and that price. I got my financing approved today and when I called him to put down the deposit he announces that he had NOT priced in Nav and that now the price was nearly 2K higher.

Could he have been that stupid? He says he has been selling BMWs for years. But if it was a bait and switch did he think I was that stupid?

My lender says to walk away. I am considering looking around for a used 911 instead. Any insight would be appreciated.
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      09-16-2005, 08:08 PM   #2
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Walk away and go to another dealer. Don't give him the cash.
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      09-16-2005, 08:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orso
Three times he confirmed the price and the option list (sales tax and license separate) and I asked explicitly if that included Nav and he said yes each time.
In writing?
Perhaps try his sales manager, if not go to the GM or if you need to go higher, try the dealer principal.

Compare the cost with another dealer or 2 before you lose faith in BMW.

Good luck.
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      09-16-2005, 08:12 PM   #4
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walk away...fast....

buy somewhere else and then drive by his dealership with a big grin....
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      09-16-2005, 10:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orso
Folks, after falling in love with the car - always a mistake, I suppose - I negotiated a price with the dealer: 41,882 for a 330i, Premium with black leather, Sports, Cold Weather, Comfort, Power SunShades, Nav, TiAG, and 6 CD changer. Three times he confirmed the price and the option list (sales tax and license separate) and I asked explicitly if that included Nav and he said yes each time. I sent him an email with that option list and that price. I got my financing approved today and when I called him to put down the deposit he announces that he had NOT priced in Nav and that now the price was nearly 2K higher.
LMAO you must have been dealing with the same CA as the guy on Edmunds.com. LMAO

Almost the same freaking story.
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      09-16-2005, 11:17 PM   #6
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really?

Can you post a URL?


Also, I re-ran the numbers based on the ED invoice figures that bimmer.com posted and the ED price is $39,500 so even at 41,900 the dealer would appear to be doing more than ok. And now he wants to jack it up 2k! The thing that irks me is that this dealer acted as if this was a no-hassle low price.....I should have known they would try something.
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      09-16-2005, 11:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orso
Can you post a URL?


Also, I re-ran the numbers based on the ED invoice figures that bimmer.com posted and the ED price is $39,500 so even at 41,900 the dealer would appear to be doing more than ok. And now he wants to jack it up 2k! The thing that irks me is that this dealer acted as if this was a no-hassle low price.....I should have known they would try something.
I'll have to find the url, but I'll post it later when I find it.
Also you didn't mention it was ED, that's ridiculous $2K over and another $2K. Definitely walk as the others have said. Lot of people have gotten around $1k-$1.5K over invoice and some even better in the Bay Area.
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      09-16-2005, 11:27 PM   #8
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I found the message - same story!!

I should have been clear. I wanted US delivery. I was just checking the original offer against ED invoice. My guess is that the dealer gets inventory at around ED invoice, so anything above that is profit. So if ED invoice on my config is 39,500 when he offered me 41,900 he knew that he had both built in a profit and an opportunity to gouge me at the last minute for 2k more.

Do you think that is about right?

And if I go to another dealer (instead of just buying a used 911) should I start at about 500 over that ED invoice number?

Thanks for the help.
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      09-16-2005, 11:48 PM   #9
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The dealer does not get inventory at ED invoice pricing. You need to use the US invoice pricing if you are not using ED. I believe that there are excise (import) tax savings and other BMW AG savings involved.
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      09-17-2005, 12:17 AM   #10
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ok, thanks.
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      09-17-2005, 12:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc
The dealer does not get inventory at ED invoice pricing. You need to use the US invoice pricing if you are not using ED. I believe that there are excise (import) tax savings and other BMW AG savings involved.

Yep the invoice for US delivery is higher. FYI your invoice is around $41,775 for a 6-speed + the 6cd changer price which I have no idea what that cost is.
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Last edited by CALIF65GM; 09-17-2005 at 12:28 AM.. Reason: typo
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      09-17-2005, 12:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orso
Folks, after falling in love with the car - always a mistake, I suppose - I negotiated a price with the dealer: 41,882 for a 330i, Premium with black leather, Sports, Cold Weather, Comfort, Power SunShades, Nav, TiAG, and 6 CD changer. Three times he confirmed the price and the option list (sales tax and license).
Why would u ever think you would get a $45,645.00 car for...
$41,882.00 not including $635.00 + $200.00 install CD changer.
Your lucky to get $1,000.00 & real lucky $2,000.00 off MSRP.
So u want a $46,480.00 car for $41,882.00. $4,000.00+ discount.
It's no wonder you asked him 3 times if numbers were correct?
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      09-17-2005, 01:13 AM   #13
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What, you think I was trying to STEAL the car? You can't be serious.

I simply asked for his best price.

The price he quoted was above US invoice, tho not by much and was well above ED invoice which is probably far closer to dealer actual cost. I asked him explicitly if he had done it right. He said yes, three times and when I did the test drive he showed me the price on his computer. Interestingly, he refused to put it in writing.

All he had to do was tell me I was wrong and that he had made a mistake. He refused to do this.

Do YOU think a salesperson with ten years experience made a mistake on an option that amounts to 5% of the sales price? It was not a mistake. He did the same thing to another poster on Edmunds.com a few weeks ago. This is a bait and switch and in my state is illegal. It is a misdemeanor punishable by 6 months in jail and a fine.
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      09-17-2005, 01:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orso
What, you think I was trying to STEAL the car? You can't be serious.


All he had to do was tell me I was wrong and that he had made a mistake. He refused to do this.
First: no where in my post says u tried to steal a car!

u are very correct & I totally agree with u, should of never gave u that price!
Wondering if he made a honest mistake, one that turned out not in your favor?
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      09-17-2005, 01:32 AM   #15
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Sorry, I was trying to be ironical...email can make that difficult to convey.

The reason I reconfirmed the price had nothing to do with the iDrive - it was because I kept adding little things like the CD changer. But I did ask him explicitly if he had included iDrive and he said he had.

I figured, what do I know about his actual cost, what rebates he might be getting, etc.

So, when push came to shove today and I was ready to put down a deposit I was prepared to believe he had made a mistake.....but my loan officer at the credit union said it was most definitely not a mistake, as did everyone who replied to my post here - and then one poster pointed out that the scam sounded just like a scam reported on Edmunds.com Sure enough the facts there are identical - the poster a few weeks back reported he had gotten an incredible price from the same dealer as me (he named the dealer later - which I have not done, but it is the same). And everyone said, go for it. And when he put down a deposit he was told there was a 1700 dollar mistake!! Same fact pattern as with me except that I did not put down a deposit.

Since I have not heard of this happening anywhere else in the BMW system I have a hard time believing it is common. To be sure I have written to the Chairman of BMW and to the general counsel of the parent company of the dealer. I also intend to call the district attorney's consumer protection unit. I am sure that others have been hoodwinked by this place and have not realized the scam. Someone should do something about it. I wanted to buy a car, not a a headache but I have the time and ability to speak up for those others and perhaps it will do some good.

If there is anyone else out there with a similar story in Northern California, please let me know.
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      09-17-2005, 01:32 AM   #16
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For the specs, around 44k is a fair price.

My car is PP, SP, nav and sat prep. MSRP was 43,645, invoice was a little over 40k, 40,xxx I forgot exactly how much. My price was 41,515, more than 2k off of MSRP and it was the ONLY dealer within the bay area I talked to that was willing to give more than 1k off of MSRP. I also paid 600 out of my own pocket afterwards to have CD changer installed, which is a fair price as well with parts+labor.

No offense, but don't squeeze out every penny, you still pay for what you get.
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      09-17-2005, 01:37 AM   #17
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It's not bait and switch. What are your damages? I'm sorry if I seem unsympathetic, but you are either a troll or someone trying to get over. How do you go from not getting the deal you want to a used 911?
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      09-17-2005, 01:39 AM   #18
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Thanks, Xens. I certainly never intended to squeeze out every penny. I firmly believe in leaving something on the table for the other guy. I look for a fair price and have always done so with more than 20 years of negotiating experience as a labor negotiator and a corporate lawyer representing major banks and corporations. I did not even negotiate with this guy! He made me an offer. It was better than what I had seen others getting so I barely made an effort to shop around (my guess is that that is the point of the tactic he uses). And only at the last minute did he try to change it. That is not an appropriate way to behave (in fact, it is illegal).
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      09-17-2005, 01:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orso
Sorry, I was trying to be ironical...email can make that difficult to convey.

The reason I reconfirmed the price had nothing to do with the iDrive - it was because I kept adding little things like the CD changer. But I did ask him explicitly if he had included iDrive and he said he had.

I figured, what do I know about his actual cost, what rebates he might be getting, etc.

So, when push came to shove today and I was ready to put down a deposit I was prepared to believe he had made a mistake.....but my loan officer at the credit union said it was most definitely not a mistake, as did everyone who replied to my post here - and then one poster pointed out that the scam sounded just like a scam reported on Edmunds.com Sure enough the facts there are identical - the poster a few weeks back reported he had gotten an incredible price from the same dealer as me (he named the dealer later - which I have not done, but it is the same). And everyone said, go for it. And when he put down a deposit he was told there was a 1700 dollar mistake!! Same fact pattern as with me except that I did not put down a deposit.

Since I have not heard of this happening anywhere else in the BMW system I have a hard time believing it is common. To be sure I have written to the Chairman of BMW and to the general counsel of the parent company of the dealer. I also intend to call the district attorney's consumer protection unit. I am sure that others have been hoodwinked by this place and have not realized the scam. Someone should do something about it. I wanted to buy a car, not a a headache but I have the time and ability to speak up for those others and perhaps it will do some good.

If there is anyone else out there with a similar story in Northern California, please let me know.
41,882+2000=43,882

I'd still say it's a fair price for car you spec'ed out. If you wanted to buy a car, then focus on buying a car. If you don't feel comfortable with this particular dealer, then walk away and talk to another dealer, there are plenty. But I say if you really wanted to buy a car, you can leave the issue of "straigtening out" the dealership at least until after you buy your car.
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      09-17-2005, 01:44 AM   #20
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It was an UNSUCCESSFUL bait and switch only because I balked. I was so certain that this must have been an honest mistake on his part that I asked my loan office and this board for advice. EVERYONE said to walk immediately. I intended to do so and then someone pointed out that the facts here sound just like those on Edmunds.com - and sure enough someone over there is reporting the same fact pattern happened to him at the same dealer (and with the internet sales force). In other words, there is a bad apple in the BMW system.

Under the circumstances, I wonder whether I should just give up on the BMW and go with the 911 - there are plenty of 996s out there in the same price range - of course, part of this is just an expression of my frustration. The 911 is more car than I need and the 330i seems perfect.....
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      09-17-2005, 01:45 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orso
Thanks, Xens. I certainly never intended to squeeze out every penny. I firmly believe in leaving something on the table for the other guy. I look for a fair price and have always done so with more than 20 years of negotiating experience as a labor negotiator and a corporate lawyer representing major banks and corporations. I did not even negotiate with this guy! He made me an offer. It was better than what I had seen others getting so I barely made an effort to shop around (my guess is that that is the point of the tactic he uses). And only at the last minute did he try to change it. That is not an appropriate way to behave (in fact, it is illegal).
I understand your point in this issue, but I guess I'm just the type of person that "I ain't gonna fall for a trick but that's about all I'll do." to you for considering going through the troubles to prevent damage to other potential buyers, but you should think about your car first.
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      09-17-2005, 01:45 AM   #22
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Xens, good advice, and once I sleep on this that is probably what I will do....
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