[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Hybrids are considered ICE under EU and USA states imposing bans. Many people don't understand that fact. Even the new RAM pickup with a generator that only charges the battery will not meet EV criteria.

right so who is tuning hybrids?

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by ASAP

right so who is tuning hybrids?

No evil Co2 emissions allowed. Net zero emissions

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

No evil Co2 emissions allowed. Net zero emissions

Stop breathing.
So dumb we’ll allowed them to consider us breathing and living a harm to the planet.

[Car-Addicted]

Trucking companies ordered to pay $1M fine for illegal modifications to big rigs: 'This case is one of the largest of its kind'
March 8, 2024
U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan Mark Totten announced in October that two Grand Rapids-based trucking companies and several individuals were sentenced for deactivating the emissions control systems on semi trucks.
According to a statement from the U.S. Attorney's Office, the process of "deletion" can "improve performance and fuel economy and save maintenance costs" but increases tailpipe pollution, which can have detrimental health and environmental effects.

"Tampering with or removing emissions controls can drastically increase the emissions of nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, carbon monoxide, and non-methane hydrocarbons found in vehicle exhaust," the release stated. "Exposure to and inhalation of these chemicals at greater levels is associated with serious health risks."
U.S. District Court Judge Paul L. Maloney ordered the two businesses to pay fines of $500,000 each and serve a year of probation as part of their felony convictions. Judge Maloney also sentenced all four men to a year of probation, with Scholten and Bos serving four months in home detention and Larsen serving two months. Additionally, Scholten and Bos each received a fine of $6,000, while Larsen was fined $7,500, and DeKock $10,000.

"The sentencings in this case show that EPA and our law enforcement partners will hold accountable individuals who disregard health and environmental laws designed to protect our communities from dangerous air pollution," Matovic added. 

It's another example of the Clean Air Act in action, as the U.S. Justice Department levied a $1.7 billion penalty last year against a company that installed software that could bypass emission controls.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-bu...ies-sentenced/

Get ready folks this is just the beginning.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Stop breathing.
So dumb we’ll allowed them to consider us breathing and living a harm to the planet.

They're paying people to sequester the gas that greens our planet, it is beyond stupid.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ASAP

trying to figure out my best how in the world would the epa tell if someone's car is tuned lmao

EPA already has a playbook for this.

They'll do what CARB does, require a bribe, I mean registration fee. You pay them to say "you're ok" and you stay in business. You don't, the EPA goes after the business that makes the product and the ones that sell them. They've already gone this route with diesel trucks, and if they can't shut you down themselves they use their endless resources (paid for by us) to legally destroy a company. Their lawyers don't cost them anything but defending against the EPA costs a ton.

The EPA has gotten out of control. God help us all if they're not stopped.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Get ready folks this is just the beginning.

I have no problems with US EPA going after companies that willfully violate the Clean Air Act. Do you think it's ok for people and companies to violate it too?

Would you feel the same way about companies that violate the Clean Water Act and RCRA and contaminate your water sources by dumping chemicals and waste?

Unfortunately, you can't let industry self-regulate. Their vested interest is in maximizing profits. Period. They don't make the right choices if it costs them money. Environmental compliance is low of their list, regardless of how they may present things to shareholders and ESG. BTW, I'm an environmental consultant and work directly with companies to maintain compliance and fight/negotiate with states/EPA. I'm in mergers and acquisitions and litigation support. I see firsthand how companies operate and how a majority approach and view environmental compliance.

Most car guys and the Right think EPA is the Boogeyman. After 25 years in the industry, I've seen a lot and in most cases, companies generally have gotten away with murder and usually got a slap on the wrist when caught by the state/EPA. Penalties were usually settled on pennies on the dollar. Not until the last 10 years or so has EPA really tightened down on companies that have blatant and willful disregard when it comes to CAA and CWA violations. EPA has no tolerance for it now because it was clear companies weren't phased by prior settlements because it had minimal impact on their business.

The current daily max civil penalty for CWA violations is $64,619 per day and $109,024 per day for CAA violations.

[BlkGS]

I think most reasonable people would say the CAA was a good idea that turned bad over years.of.government entities needing to justify their existence and expanded budgets.

If we really cared about clean air, we would be putting tariffs on imported goods from the 3rd world where they don't care about emissions. Or air travel, or trans oceanic container shops, or any number of other things. If we really cared about saving lives we would be eliminating plastic use as much as possible due to micro plastics.

A small number of cars modifying parts, swapping engines, etc is not causing a significant issue in air quality. Even all the diesel trucks having emissions deletes installed wasn't. But people don't want.to hear about the issues that WE CREATE on the other side of the world, they want to vilify someone they are doing something they don't like and the government to come in and abuse power that it was never actually given to stop it.

In the end, the EPA andany other govt agencies main drive now is to further their own headcount and agendas to push their headcounts higher.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I think most reasonable people would say the CAA was a good idea that turned bad over years.of.government entities needing to justify their existence and expanded budgets.

If we really cared about clean air, we would be putting tariffs on imported goods from the 3rd world where they don't care about emissions. Or air travel, or trans oceanic container shops, or any number of other things. If we really cared about saving lives we would be eliminating plastic use as much as possible due to micro plastics.

A small number of cars modifying parts, swapping engines, etc is not causing a significant issue in air quality. Even all the diesel trucks having emissions deletes installed wasn't. But people don't want.to hear about the issues that WE CREATE on the other side of the world, they want to vilify someone they are doing something they don't like and the government to come in and abuse power that it was never actually given to stop it.

In the end, the EPA andany other govt agencies main drive now is to further their own headcount and agendas to push their headcounts higher.

What do you think “cleaned up” the air in LA and other places that were choking in smog in the 70s?

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by RM7

What do you think “cleaned up” the air in LA and other places that were choking in smog in the 70s?

They were successful, now they cost consumers billions chasing after ever tiny amounts of perceived pollutants. The main founder of Green Peace left after he realized the organization morphed into a money grab led by idiots who were only interested in the next big non-existent threat that would generate income.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

They were successful

Exactly

[cooolone2]

Yeah, it's great to champion the Tree Huggers at the expense of those who aren't bothering anyone by wrenching their own property! A National Past Time! By the way...

Under Obama, who began this, NASCAR would be illegal! And wow, all the while, Mexico, China and a host of other countries are not doing a thing to change the environment. So what are we expecting... Anyways...

Let's get back to Chevron shall we!

The contemporary agenda with any administration is to have a decree, edict, or wish by EO (Executive Order) which channels down through various acronym agencies which effectuate policy. This is not law... But is apllied as such! Agencies have not only created rules and policy, but also unilaterally established fines and other punitive action against offenders, not excluding police powers to seize Property absent due application of law. Under the current administration, the EPA enacted new and ridiculously malfeasant expansion of what waters fell under it's scope and protection, basically ANY waterway, stream or pond, no matter where, what, how.

Chevron had allowed agencies to set rules, knowing that Congress couldn't possibly do it all. But these agencies today give themselves powers not bestowed upon them by Congress or Law. And THAT is the problem! Only Congress can do that (Law)... And the EO process is used full well knowingly bypassing this silly little part of our government called the Legislative Branch!

So, now, the 3rd Branch of our Gov't, the SCOTUS, will decide the legality of these Acronym Agencies run amok and it doesn't look good for them. Arguments didn't go well for the Govt and it is expected that Chevron will be repealed! And with it, all these ridiculous rulings and fines and over reaching by desk jockies bent on changing the world from their little corner of it.

Can't wait... Because I don't need anyone telling me it's illegal to tune my engine! Change parts they don't like anyone touching, or using parts they don't like, but couldn't articulate why. Like the ATF Director not even being able to name parts of a Rifle! But making decisions that effect the Rights of millions!

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

In the end, the EPA andany other govt agencies main drive now is to further their own headcount and agendas to push their headcounts higher.

I don't know where you guys come up with this stuff. The EPA headcount over the last 10 years has been generally stagnant, and/or shrinking depending on the year. Trump gutted it by essentially handcuffing them, that too caused many to voluntarily leave. Most EPA employees are not tree huggers and are down to earth and realists. I deal with them daily and I have good friends that work there, many of which are car enthusiasts, SCCA racers, etc.

EPA isn't out take away your car mods. They have been clued into a big industry where tuners, aftermarket companies, and shops are modifying road cars to run without emissions controls and pass emissions by turning off sensors and such. They are trying to send a message to the industry as a whole. I would be very nervous if I was a tuner though, especially the guys at BM3 and MHD. They think they're protected by being overseas, but I'm certain EPA will be going after them and any others that offer defeat software.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I don't know where you guys come up with this stuff. The EPA headcount over the last 10 years has been generally stagnant, and/or shrinking depending on the year. Trump gutted it by essentially handcuffing them, that too caused many to voluntarily leave. Most EPA employees are not tree huggers and are down to earth and realists. I deal with them daily and I have good friends that work there, many of which are car enthusiasts, SCCA racers, etc.

EPA isn't out take away your car mods. They have been clued into a big industry where tuners, aftermarket companies, and shops are modifying road cars to run without emissions controls and pass emissions by turning off sensors and such. They are trying to send a message to the industry as a whole. I would be very nervous if I was a tuner though, especially the guys at BM3 and MHD. They think they're protected by being overseas, but I'm certain EPA will be going after them and any others that offer defeat software.

This has become a problem because of the number of people running straight pipes or catless. No clue why people need to run catless, you can make insane power with cats still. All these morons with straight pipes and burble tunes draw so much attention. This wouldn't have been an issue had it not been abused.

Also ITT: people who think getting rid of the EPA and letting DuPont and their ilk dump whatever chemicals they want in your local river is a good idea.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by chris719

Also ITT: people who think getting rid of the EPA and letting DuPont and their ilk dump whatever chemicals they want in your local river is a good idea.

These ideas spawn from Project 2025 political propaganda and mean to strip agencies of executive power to enforce regulations. Their goal is to make an act of congress the only thing that can stop bad corporate behavior. Its an obvious political scam since we know bills of attainder are unconstitutional; meaning if they succeed, effectively, there will be no enforcement mechanism left to ensure companies abide by the law (which is the actual goal).

[BlkGS]

Talk about some left wing conspiracy crap.

The issue is, as was previously stated, the numbers of people modifying their cars are tiny, and the EPA can't just say "we cleaned sup the air, good job boys", they're going after more and more unrealistic targets to justify their continued existence (and push a financially beneficial to some agenda of EVs).

This isn't about air pollution. If it was, as I said before, we would be looking at ways to actually make a sizeable impact, like putting tariffs on goods from countries that thrive by not following the incredibly strict rules we have.

The number of catless cars on the road is probably in the 10s of thousands nationwide. There's some 280M cars and trucks on the road in the US. Going after that tiny percentage of people isn't going to make ANY difference in pollution. But since they're small, and government is big, they're an easy target. Far easier than forcing airlines to be clean. Far easier than forcing trans oceanic shipping to be clean. Far easier than forcing 3rd world countries to be clean.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I have no problems with US EPA going after companies that willfully violate the Clean Air Act. Do you think it's ok for people and companies to violate it too?

The issue here is not the value of the EPA or the intent of the Clean Air Act. It is that these are unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats making laws. You may remember from civics that it is the legislative branch that makes the laws and not a bunch of ecoterrorists at the EPA. Many of these bureaucrats are regulating things they don't understand and are not overly concerned about the consequences of their actions.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Talk about some left wing conspiracy crap.

The issue is, as was previously stated, the numbers of people modifying their cars are tiny, and the EPA can't just say "we cleaned sup the air, good job boys", they're going after more and more unrealistic targets to justify their continued existence (and push a financially beneficial to some agenda of EVs).

This isn't about air pollution. If it was, as I said before, we would be looking at ways to actually make a sizeable impact, like putting tariffs on goods from countries that thrive by not following the incredibly strict rules we have.

The number of catless cars on the road is probably in the 10s of thousands nationwide. There's some 280M cars and trucks on the road in the US. Going after that tiny percentage of people isn't going to make ANY difference in pollution. But since they're small, and government is big, they're an easy target. Far easier than forcing airlines to be clean. Far easier than forcing trans oceanic shipping to be clean. Far easier than forcing 3rd world countries to be clean.

Certain aftermarket companies and shops are breaking the law by developing software and installing parts that defeat emissions controls. That's illegal. Period. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if it's 3 cars or 4 million. These individuals (including the buyers) are breaking the law and they know it.

This whole thing stemmed originally stemmed from EPA figuring out that a majority of the automakers and engine control companies had developed and were employing emissions defeat devices on millions of engines. That is just bonkers to me to think so many companies were doing this and for such a long time. Many knew other companies were doing it and willfully decided to do the same since no one had been caught and they saw the $$$. No until some college students figured it out did EPA and CARB actually get clued into it.

Point being, you rarely can trust industry to do the right thing. Profit over most anything, in most cases.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

The issue here is not the value of the EPA or the intent of the Clean Air Act. It is that these are unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats making laws. You may remember from civics that it is the legislative branch that makes the laws and not a bunch of ecoterrorists at the EPA. Many of these bureaucrats are regulating things they don't understand and are not overly concerned about the consequences of their actions.

A lot more goes into these processes than you know. I have colleagues that work on committees and panels to help create environmental legislation. The process is lengthy and very detailed. Massive amounts of information and data is considered. Don't believe everything you read on the internet or is being spewed by some hard, right-leaning yahoo.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Certain aftermarket companies and shops are breaking the law by developing software and installing parts that defeat emissions controls. That's illegal. Period. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if it's 3 cars or 4 million. These individuals (including the buyers) are breaking the law and they know it.

This whole thing stemmed originally stemmed from EPA figuring out that a majority of the automakers and engine control companies had developed and were employing emissions defeat devices on millions of engines. That is just bonkers to me to think so many companies were doing this and for such a long time. Many knew other companies were doing it and willfully decided to do the same since no one had been caught and they saw the $$$. No until some college students figured it out did EPA and CARB actually get clued into it.

Point being, you rarely can trust industry to do the right thing. Profit over most anything, in most cases.

The point being that hot rodding has been an integral part of American life since 2 guys each had a car. It was not legislated out of existence; it was killed by faceless bureaucratic Green thugs.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

The point being that hot rodding has been an integral part of American life since 2 guys each had a car. It was not legislated out of existence; it was killed by faceless bureaucratic Green thugs.

The automotive aftermarket is alive and well and bigger than ever. Yes, there are noise ordinances and emissions requirements to meet in order to drive the car on a public street, but loud exhausts and running no cats results in minimal power gains. Even road courses have noise requirements.

What exactly do you feel is being taken away by these Green Thugs other the general ease right now to break the law by installing some tune to defeat 02 sensors or run a smelly and highly polluting catless downpipe?

[x622]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The automotive aftermarket is alive and well and bigger than ever. Yes, there are noise ordinances and emissions requirements to meet in order to drive the car on a public street, but loud exhausts and running no cats results in minimal power gains. Even road courses have noise requirements.

What exactly do you feel is being taken away by these Green Thugs other the general ease right now to break the law by installing some tune to defeat 02 sensors or run a smelly and highly polluting catless downpipe?

Installing a turbocharger or other FI/power adder can be considered emissions defeat/tampering : see CARB

Installing non CARB approved parts

I'd say in general CARB is the EPAs extension. Fantastic example of overzealous government overreach.