[The Cleaner]

American car culture is totally different that other countries. Americans drive larger more powerful cars because they can, fuel is cheap so why drive a beer can when you can drive something fun. European cars are build for smaller roads and more expensive fuel.

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I recently visited US (again) in Seattle, WA. and noticed that even on highways the speed limit is 60mph. Anyone going over 75-80mph would end up stopped by a police car a few miles down the road. In town people were driving so relaxed and polite that going over 40mph would make you feel guilty. If you would accelerate with the slightest agressivity you would turn everybody's heads

So, why do you need more power ? I think the smaller cars/engines from Europe would suit USA just fine...

I must reckon US feels a very safe country from the driving point of view, but in no way would you need more than 110-130hp on a car with a reasonable weight and manual gearbox. What I noticed though is that most cars there are so heavy that they need some big power just to move from a standstill. I drove a brand new 250hp 3.5l V6 Dodge Charger ("high output" engine ? come on... ) and my 115hp Renault Megane would kick its ass in every way.

There are three things that ruin US cars:

1. the weight
2. the use of automatic gearboxes.
3. the suspension (barge-like on every car).

Combine these and you end up needing an enormous amount of power just to drive decently. You can easily outperform a 250hp 3.5l US car with a 100hp 1.4l manual Euro car like a Golf (Beetle).

Try hitting a hole in rush hour traffic driving a 100hp econobox. Post here if you live.

Consider this - the US is 3,717,879 sq. miles. All of Europe is only 3,837,000 sq mi (9,938,000 Sq. Km). Turkey is the largest in Europe at 301,383 sq mi and France is second at 211,209 sq mi. My point here is that we have a much lower population density that makes travel a little more involved. A 1.5 hour communte to work at 75 mph is not uncommon (or 1.5 hours at 7.5 mph is you live in SoCal).

Then consider Americans are larger than Europeans (taller and fatter, but still larger). America has a culture based around exploring our country, and we love our cars. It's not uncommon for us to haul the family 12 hours in the car to go on vacation, see family, whatever. So we have big ass cars that need lots of power.

Many of us also own a small compact to use around town that gets better mileage. Things are generally changing toward more fuel efficient vehicles, but we have different transportation challenges than Europe.

As for judging our cars, what did you have, a rental? We don't drive those POS's here. Even a Pontiac G6 in the rental fleet is very (ok slightly) different than the G6 you would buy at a dealer. Rental companies are tied to the manufacturers, and can order fleet specs that are not for sale at the dealer.

Oh, one last thing - don't presume to think you know much about America based on a visit to Seattle. It's about as close to a Socialist society as you can get in the US, after the People's Republik of Kalifornia. Most of the US is very different than the west coast.

[Nikolas]

Isn't the max speed limit in Romania 120KPH? That is 74 mph. There are many highways in the US that have 75 mph speed limits.

There also those of us that like to take our cars to road courses.

I couldn't agree more though on the heavy american high HP cars. It seems that instead of making our cars lighter and more efficient, the car manufacturer's have basically made the engines more efficient, higher hp but forgot about the light weight.

[stressdoc]

We don't have ancient cities with narrow streets. Obesity is common. We have enormous car garages the size of a small flat. We have to worry about getting mashed by the true American transportation device: the 2.5 ton SUV/Pick-up truck. And we try to impress our neighbors by Potlatching on a global scale.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

American car culture is totally different that other countries. Americans drive larger more powerful cars because they can, fuel is cheap so why drive a beer can when you can drive something fun. European cars are build for smaller roads and more expensive fuel.

That's the problem exactly. The bigger the better... Goes for food too. All you can eat buffets hardly exist in Europe. That's why SUV's became so popular in North America too, and with low gas prices, it was easy for people to afford them. Screw that their ride sucks and they drink gas like hell. I want to drive in a big car, as big as it can be, even bigger than the guy next to me so I can have bragging rights...

So many people who don't even haul stuff routinely or have big families (which to me are the only reasons why you need an SUV) drive them though.

[zsapphire7]

Yea... I like how you made a generalization over the entire US over visting seattle over all places. You can go out to the mid west and find people driving insanely slow. However if you goto LA~ youll find the traffic goes at 80mph on average, minus traffic.

Its not a matter of need...its WANT. Heck you can take public transportation.. if it was only a matter of need, we wouldnt have "luxury/sports" cars. We would all be driving around in mostly scooters all the time or tiny small cars that top out at 100mph downhill.

[Blake]

[astris]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some of the heaviest, high hp cars on the planet belong to European mfgs? Audi, BMW, Aston Martin, Benz, Maserati, Land Rover, Rolls, Bentley, just to name a few. I would argue they have more heavy, high hp cars than US manufacturers combined. How many of those companies make heavy SUVs as well?

We do reign supreme when it comes to truck though.

[GreenPlease]

FWIW, I'm not a fan of super high horsepower cars and I agree that most cars in America are grossly overpowered. I would trade 100hp on my car for a 1000lb weight reduction any day.

The primary reason I own a 335i is because it has so much torque down low. With my driving style it is very rare for the tach to go over 3500rpm. Below this number, the N54 has substantial grunt whereas other engines feel asthmatic.

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by astris

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some of the heaviest, high hp cars on the planet belong to European mfgs? Audi, BMW, Aston Martin, Benz, Maserati, Land Rover, Rolls, Bentley, just to name a few. I would argue they have more heavy, high hp cars than US manufacturers combined. How many of those companies make heavy SUVs as well?

We do reign supreme when it comes to truck though.

Once every how many days do you see one of those on the road...?

[BForbes]

Its not just US Citizens.

[astris]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Once every how many days do you see one of those on the road...?

Many of those and every single day. I certainly see Benz, bmw, rover, audi, jag (forgot that one) at the bare minimum on my 4 mile commute to work.

If I lived just a few miles north of where I am I'd see most, if not all everyday.

I parked my M3 behind an M6 behind an M5 at a local taco shop the other day. It was beautiful.

[just4kickz]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I recently visited US (again) in Seattle, WA. and noticed that even on highways the speed limit is 60mph. Anyone going over 75-80mph would end up stopped by a police car a few miles down the road. In town people were driving so relaxed and polite that going over 40mph would make you feel guilty. If you would accelerate with the slightest agressivity you would turn everybody's heads

So, why do you need more power ? I think the smaller cars/engines from Europe would suit USA just fine...

I must reckon US feels a very safe country from the driving point of view, but in no way would you need more than 110-130hp on a car with a reasonable weight and manual gearbox. What I noticed though is that most cars there are so heavy that they need some big power just to move from a standstill. I drove a brand new 250hp 3.5l V6 Dodge Charger ("high output" engine ? come on... ) and my 115hp Renault Megane would kick its ass in every way.

There are three things that ruin US cars:

1. the weight
2. the use of automatic gearboxes.
3. the suspension (barge-like on every car).

Combine these and you end up needing an enormous amount of power just to drive decently. You can easily outperform a 250hp 3.5l US car with a 100hp 1.4l manual Euro car like a Golf (Beetle).

says the guy with a 335i.

[lib]

Anyone else see the irony of the OP driving a 335 instead of a 120d ? (Edit: Someone beat me to it )

Originally Posted by zsapphire7

Yea... I like how you made a generalization over the entire US over visting seattle over all places.

Yeah. That's similar to making generalizations about Romania after spending a weekend in London.

[uofmtiger]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I recently visited US (again) in Seattle, WA. and noticed that even on highways the speed limit is 60mph. Anyone going over 75-80mph would end up stopped by a police car a few miles down the road. In town people were driving so relaxed and polite that going over 40mph would make you feel guilty. If you would accelerate with the slightest agressivity you would turn everybody's heads

So, why do you need more power ? I think the smaller cars/engines from Europe would suit USA just fine...

I must reckon US feels a very safe country from the driving point of view, but in no way would you need more than 110-130hp on a car with a reasonable weight and manual gearbox. What I noticed though is that most cars there are so heavy that they need some big power just to move from a standstill. I drove a brand new 250hp 3.5l V6 Dodge Charger ("high output" engine ? come on... ) and my 115hp Renault Megane would kick its ass in every way.

There are three things that ruin US cars:

1. the weight
2. the use of automatic gearboxes.
3. the suspension (barge-like on every car).

Combine these and you end up needing an enormous amount of power just to drive decently. You can easily outperform a 250hp 3.5l US car with a 100hp 1.4l manual Euro car like a Golf (Beetle).

The top selling car in the US is the Honda Civic. Toyota and Honda dominate the top five. The Ford Truck was a top seller and recently dropped. A lot of Americans own houses with yards, so a truck is pretty much a necessity for many of them. Personally, I just borrow a truck from a friend when I need one.

I am not sure I understand your rant. Most Americans do not buy Dodge Chargers. Of course, those that want power want it to drive fast when they feel like it. Seems pretty obvious.

For the record, Seattle is a very poor example of how the rest of the country drives.

[SuPaSkillz]

I agree with alot of the things you said. But if you dont know by now why we need more than 110-130 hp in our cars.... then your posting on the wrong site.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by zsapphire7

Yea... I like how you made a generalization over the entire US over visting seattle over all places. You can go out to the mid west and find people driving insanely slow. However if you goto LA~ youll find the traffic goes at 80mph on average, minus traffic.

Critisizing someone about generalizing and then doing it yourself.. that is smart

People in the midwest drive just as fast (and sometimes faster) than people on the coasts. There are not many times when I am doing less than 10 over the speed limit.

You can accelerate as quickly as you want as long as you don't spin your tires FYI...

Plus public transportation is much more accessable, cheaper, and more comfortable than what we have in the US. Hell, you're lucky if there is a bus route running near where you live/work here. And don't even ask if there are trains (haha!).

[FStop7]

What the hell kind of retarded thread is this?

Almost all of the most powerful production cars are European.

Ban OP, obvious troll is obvious

[cougfan335]

I've lived in the Seattle area since I was 5 and we are in no way indicitive of the rest of the country. We just have some ridiculously slow drivers and we spend a great deal of time going very slowly on the freeway because of poor lane discipline. From your post you must have avoided rush hour and the 520 bridge altogether. If you want to see why I want 300 horsepower check out I-90 at 3am!

[ZJP]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

But why do americans need more space than Europeans inside cars ?

Because America has more fatties than Europe.

We can thank them for overflowing our roads with Yukons and Excursions.

Originally Posted by TurboFan

Many of us also own a small compact to use around town that gets better mileage.

E30 daily driver ftw!

[Peg_legs]

I agree with many of the "locals".

Europe has narrow roads

America has higher requirements on cars i.e. larger bumpers, more smog equipment, etc

crash testing became a huge selling point, so safe weighs more

Europe has much better and cheaper public transportation, we commute more by car

my favorite car that I have owned had 2 seats, 96 hp and great gas mileage (CRX)

If I could legally drive some of the Europe only cars, I would.

[len56]

Auto's aren't slow anymore. On bmw's/benzes cars at least. And some japs too. At Chrysler however, they probably don't care about shifting fast.

Seriously, I get 1 second shifts...