[RBP]

Originally Posted by rpa

Exactly what is the point of comparing cars that have price differences that are measured in the 100s of percent? The SLR is what? Roughly $500k? The M3 will likely clock in at $60k. Who in their right mind wouldn't drive an exotic around the track vs. a high production car like the M3? Same goes for the Black Series--if I'm not mistaken those will be going for well into the $100k range.

The same somewhat goes for the S600 vs. a 750. You're conveniently comparing an $80k car to a $160k car. And, as well, the same definitely goes for an M6 vs. the SL65. Those 2 cars have a whopping $90k difference in MSRP


Point is, your post comes across as fairly ignorant for comparing cars that don't even sniff each other's price class and using that to conclude that 1 brand is better than another. It's the equivalent of saying "The Ford GT is better than any car BMW makes therefore Ford must be a better brand than BMW and all Fords must be better". Luxury wise MB currently makes better cars than BMW. However, when it comes to all around performance (not just straight line) BMW beats the snot out of MB when it comes to cars in COMPARABLE classes.

Further, given BMW's history I can safely say if they ever built a car that cost $500k it would blow the doors off the SLR. Hell, I personally believe BMW could make a car like that for 1/2 to 1/3 of the pricing point of the SLR because all around performance is in their DNA.

So you agree that Mercedes-Benz has a better offering than BMW. Good.

Now if you are trying to justify pricing here...I don't think you'll find BMW to be the cheapest car out there. Or are you simply trying to say that BMW is the best car for exactly $50,000 ? Or are they the best car for $42,364 ? or maybe the best car for around $47,962?

Fanboy.

[lkn]

speaking of which, i was just on the freeway with a CLS

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by RBP

So you agree that Mercedes-Benz has a better offering than BMW. Good.

Now if you are trying to justify pricing here...I don't think you'll find BMW to be the cheapest car out there. Or are you simply trying to say that BMW is the best car for exactly $50,000 ? Or are they the best car for $42,364 ? or maybe the best car for around $47,962?

Fanboy.

You're being a f*king fanboy. He stated legit reasons as to how your comparisons fail to make sense. Comparably priced BMW's tend to outperform their MB counterparts in the performance department whereas MB tends to win the luxury side of things.

It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. They're not one-on-one rivals as one might think they are. Most of the AMG's are a b*tchload more than their M "equivalents" as well. Case in point: A nearly-$200k SL65 cannot be compared to a $100k M6. How hard is that to understand?

Also MB uses forced injection V12's and high displacement V8's in order to generate so much output. BMW sticks to the low displacement high-revving philosophy.

Gosh this thread makes my head hurt.

[Queenskid24]

Originally Posted by spitfire6000

BTW: wats with all this flaming and talk of drugs? i was under the impression that this was a mature board community.

if only this was true, there are soooo many immature people on car forms and im not reffering to anyone in particular but in all honesty theres alot of kids here so i guess thats why, hey im a young man myself, im just luck enough to be able to afford this luxury. But in reference to the topic at hand, i actually agree to an extent that MBs are targeted for older drivers, just to let you guys know im not biased my Girl owned a C240 at 16 and now drives a SLK280 at 20. I read a few posts above that Mbs are ore luxurious and BMWs more sporty and i think that can be argued seeing as how MB collaborates with AMG to produce crazy amounts of power which to "some" may be sporty in a sense. These two companies are rivals and they both make cars to outmatch eachother, this is apparent with the S and 7 series which in my opinion have no other comp, they are in a class of their own.

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by alexckma

...
MB and BMW are great in their own respect.
..

+1.
BMWs I had owned are 325i E36, Z3 2.2, 330i E90
MBs I had owned are E320 W210, C55 AMG W203.
None of above disappointed me.
Whoever saying a MB is 'less fun' to drive than a BMW is WRONG mostly likely he is not comparing apple to apple.
I don't need to consider an Audi at all because I can find more than everything I want from the two brands.
Glad to see an old dead thread comes alive
t

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Queenskid24

if only this was true, there are soooo many immature people on car forms and im not reffering to anyone in particular but in all honesty theres alot of kids here so i guess thats why, hey im a young man myself, im just luck enough to be able to afford this luxury. But in reference to the topic at hand, i actually agree to an extent that MBs are targeted for older drivers, just to let you guys know im not biased my Girl owned a C240 at 16 and now drives a SLK280 at 20. I read a few posts above that Mbs are ore luxurious and BMWs more sporty and i think that can be argued seeing as how MB collaborates with AMG to produce crazy amounts of power which to "some" may be sporty in a sense. These two companies are rivals and they both make cars to outmatch eachother, this is apparent with the S and 7 series which in my opinion have no other comp, they are in a class of their own.

You honestly don't think that Audi's A8/S8 Series and Lexus's LS series don't stand a chance? Well, against the MB not really...but c'mon...I'm willing to say that the 7 isn't exactly the most luxurious car in its class. Sportiest? Maybe, but that's not the point of that segment. The interior just isn't up to par with the others.

The only comparable segments between BMW and MB are:
3 Vs. C
5 Vs. E
X3 Vs. ML
X5 Vs. GL
Z Vs. SLK

The CLK is more of a cross between the e92/93 3 series and the e62/63 6 series. The SL doesn't have a rival just yet; the Z9 will fill that role soon.

The CL will be fought by BMW's Concept CS - recently announced for production.

The A class (might actually be closer against the B class...both are in Europe) goes against the new 1 series.

The R Class...lol.

All AMGs followed by the 65 badge or the Black Series badge aren't comparable due to price limitations.

[Edit]: I wonder what the CLS goes against? The model really doesn't have much of a purpose except for being a cooler looking E class. It doesn't really have a competitor.

[alexckma]

Mind you (all),

There have been some bad development in BMW, does anyone remember the infamous 8 series? Or in another words that piece of crap?? Yes that's a good example of a crappy BMW. I sincerely hope the Z9 will be much better.

Anyway, the SLR is in another league entirely, I brought it up just to show that Mercedes actually do know what they are doing. SLR is the fastest Convertible yet (as in top speed), this is taken from top gear, I have not actually read that much about the SLR. Because I will never own or drive one, it really doesn't matter to me.

As for the more conventional cars, I don't see how the 3 series IS MUCH BETTER THAN the C class. They are just different? Why can't people just accept it as it is? And don't go on saying "Then why the hell did you buy a BMW crap" 2 answers, 1) I can, I can buy one in each color if I really wanted to 2) I have a C class, it's a nice little car to drive.

BMWs are great, MB's are great, jiust in different respects.

Now quit your rambling about how MB not know how to make cars or vice versa, and just buy whatever the hell you like.

As to the poster about the CLS, I don't think there is another 4 door Coupe out there yet... so I don't actually think it has any rivals thus far.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by alexckma

Mind you (all),

There have been some bad development in BMW, does anyone remember the infamous 8 series? Or in another words that piece of crap?? Yes that's a good example of a crappy BMW. I sincerely hope the Z9 will be much better.

Anyway, the SLR is in another league entirely, I brought it up just to show that Mercedes actually do know what they are doing. SLR is the fastest Convertible yet (as in top speed), this is taken from top gear, I have not actually read that much about the SLR. Because I will never own or drive one, it really doesn't matter to me.

As for the more conventional cars, I don't see how the 3 series IS MUCH BETTER THAN the C class. They are just different? Why can't people just accept it as it is? And don't go on saying "Then why the hell did you buy a BMW crap" 2 answers, 1) I can, I can buy one in each color if I really wanted to 2) I have a C class, it's a nice little car to drive.

BMWs are great, MB's are great, jiust in different respects.

Now quit your rambling about how MB not know how to make cars or vice versa, and just buy whatever the hell you like.

As to the poster about the CLS, I don't think there is another 4 door Coupe out there yet... so I don't actually think it has any rivals thus far.

what made the 8-series so crappy? It was a luxury sport coupe made to cruise at high speeds for a long time... and it did that well.

[alexckma]

well at least for me, it was bad.
I had the 840Ci, and I just came back and forth to the dealership... (o by the way, it's the 1996 model). I started to like the 3 series afterwards

[ON325i]

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG
Mercedes-Benz Cars

I think as a fact, BMW wins by the company name length

[shragon]

[jct0518]

3 vs C 08' --->C wins
5 vs E --->E wins
x5 vs ML ---> X5 wins
7 vs S ---> S wins
6 vs CLS/CLK Conv --> MB wins

This is just my opinion..

[RBP]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

You're being a f*king fanboy. He stated legit reasons as to how your comparisons fail to make sense. Comparably priced BMW's tend to outperform their MB counterparts in the performance department whereas MB tends to win the luxury side of things.

It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. They're not one-on-one rivals as one might think they are. Most of the AMG's are a b*tchload more than their M "equivalents" as well. Case in point: A nearly-$200k SL65 cannot be compared to a $100k M6. How hard is that to understand?

Also MB uses forced injection V12's and high displacement V8's in order to generate so much output. BMW sticks to the low displacement high-revving philosophy.

Gosh this thread makes my head hurt.

Did you read the original post? It started off talking about the more advanced vehicles that each manufacturer has. If you are going to take the best of each brand, Mercedes-Benz has the better model in most categories.

C63 AMG and M3 are probably the closest of the lineups...but C63 beats the M3 in nearly every performance category.

S Class (S65, S63, S600 and even the S550) beats the 7 series hands down.

ML63, ML550 are both quite a leap ahead of the X5. ML550 is way faster AND cheaper than the X5. It also has more cargo room, tows more and has a few more available features than the X5. Now if your sole criterion is which vehicle has BMW handling...then perhaps the X5 is closer.

CLS and SL Series don't really have a real BMW competitor.

E63 AMG and M5 are pretty close and arguable either way.

Now if you're just going to match prices or engines, then it might be a different argument but that is not what the original post was about.

Of course in this forum everyone wants to compare the C350 with the 335i and not against the 328 which is the closer comparison. My argument is that if you bring the best of both brands out to play, the Mercedes-Benz will typically trounce the BMW offerings.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by RBP

Did you read the original post? It started off talking about the more advanced vehicles that each manufacturer has. If you are going to take the best of each brand, Mercedes-Benz has the better model in most categories.

C63 AMG and M3 are probably the closest of the lineups...but C63 beats the M3 in nearly every performance category.

S Class (S65, S63, S600 and even the S550) beats the 7 series hands down.

ML63, ML550 are both quite a leap ahead of the X5. ML550 is way faster AND cheaper than the X5. It also has more cargo room, tows more and has a few more available features than the X5. Now if your sole criterion is which vehicle has BMW handling...then perhaps the X5 is closer.

CLS and SL Series don't really have a real BMW competitor.

E63 AMG and M5 are pretty close and arguable either way.

Now if you're just going to match prices or engines, then it might be a different argument but that is not what the original post was about.

Of course in this forum everyone wants to compare the C350 with the 335i and not against the 328 which is the closer comparison. My argument is that if you bring the best of both brands out to play, the Mercedes-Benz will typically trounce the BMW offerings.

gotta disagree to some extent.

C63 v. M3 -> M3 quicker thru the corners and C63 quicker in the straights... M3 has significantly better gas mileage so in an endurance race the M3 and C63 would be close in terms of all-out speed but the M3 would win due to less stopping.

I don't know about the S-Class V. 7-series... I have driven a 7 but not an S class so I won't comment here except to say the S-Classe seems nicer but is also much more expensive.

X5 vs. ML --> I drove both and the X5 handles better, has better brakes... the each have a nice look in my opinion. ML ride is a little bit more comfortable but the X5 has a very comfortable ride. I'd call either a great choice. No clear winner there.

3-series v. C-Classe -> In Canada, the C350 is priced to compete agains the 335i. The C is better equipped with standard equipment and ends up being a bit cheaper when fully loaded, but the 335i just trounces it in terms of engine and brakes. I think the 335i has the edge here due to a ridiculous motor. Comparing the C300 to the 328i (priced to compete)... I'd say the C300 looks like it could be the winner there (in Canada) do to an undeniable standard features list that trounces that of the 328. The 328 does have the edge in performance, but its not the kind of landslide you see chez the 335i. I'd call those too a dead heat, with C300 maybe having a slight edge. By the way, they both look incredible, the C is a special car in terms of looks and the E90 was a home run too.

[RBP]

I believe the C350 4Matic when loaded up is around $61K CAD whereas the 335xi loaded up is around $68K which is a pretty big price gap. The 328xi loaded up is around $57K so the C350 is actually closer in price to the 328xi than the 335xi.

Regardless, the OP was about the best of the brands, and the Mercedes-Benz AMG division certainly has some impressive machines.

[rpa]

Originally Posted by RBP

Did you read the original post? It started off talking about the more advanced vehicles that each manufacturer has. If you are going to take the best of each brand, Mercedes-Benz has the better model in most categories.

What exactly is the point of taking the best of each brand when the difference of price in those best cars needs to be measured in light years?

"Best car" means absolutely zero as to how well a company can develop a car (or cars). Most manufacturers know that it would be pointless for them to make a $500,000 car because no one would buy it simply due to the brand name. MB has the name, the badge, to sell develop a $500k car that people will buy. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that MB is the only high production brand (by numbers) that can produce a car in that price range and have success. Take that as a compliment to MB but definitely not as a negative to other manufacturers. BMW, Honda, etc. make great cars but no one is going to pay half a million dollars for a car from any of these companies unless it's breaking the speed of light and even then you'd have badge whores and fan boys talking it down.

Anyways, not surprisingly you failed to remark about my favorite part of my post. Since the Ford GT is hands down a better car than any current BMW car does that make Ford a better car manufacturer than BMW? Hell, performance wise the Corvette is better than any BMW, is Chevy also better than BMW? What about Nissan and their GT-R? Dodge and their Viper? Am I the only 1 that sees the fallacy (nay, stupidity) in trying to use a companies best cars to make any kind a "brand as a whole" argument?

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by RBP

Did you read the original post? It started off talking about the more advanced vehicles that each manufacturer has. If you are going to take the best of each brand, Mercedes-Benz has the better model in most categories.
C63 AMG and M3 are probably the closest of the lineups...but C63 beats the M3 in nearly every performance category.

S Class (S65, S63, S600 and even the S550) beats the 7 series hands down.

ML63, ML550 are both quite a leap ahead of the X5. ML550 is way faster AND cheaper than the X5. It also has more cargo room, tows more and has a few more available features than the X5. Now if your sole criterion is which vehicle has BMW handling...then perhaps the X5 is closer.

CLS and SL Series don't really have a real BMW competitor.

E63 AMG and M5 are pretty close and arguable either way.

Now if you're just going to match prices or engines, then it might be a different argument but that is not what the original post was about.

Of course in this forum everyone wants to compare the C350 with the 335i and not against the 328 which is the closer comparison. My argument is that if you bring the best of both brands out to play, the Mercedes-Benz will typically trounce the BMW offerings.

Gonna have to disagree with you when you factor in the value per dollar argument.

The C63 doesn't beat the M3 in nearly every category. Sure, straight line performance it will win, and maybe in the real world it'll take the lead by a margin when the two would be canyon carving, but it's a heavy mofo and it's sorta ugly (subjective). The M3's more of a driver's car, but that's not saying that the C63 is a slouch. It's a toss up between those two.

The ML63 doesn't have a competitor. As I said, AMGs cost way more mula than their M counterparts. There is no such thing as an MX5. Also, the X5 competes with the GL. Between those two it's also a preference thing, but the X5 does handle considerably more like a sedan, which is a plus in my book. They're both very fast...for SUVs.

Only thing I can truly agree with you is with the 7 series vs. S class debate. The S wins hands down for being what that segment exists for, luxury. It also doesn't handle half bad for a car of its size.

This whole thread is pointless. To reiterate once more: The two companies compete more in terms of brand name and popularity than anything else. Their cars are targeted at different demographics, and to strike up close comparisons is truly difficult.

Benzes are for people who like luxo barges. Bimmers are (generally) for the younger crowds who enjoy driving rather than having luxury amenities. AMGs are for people who like to let loose once in a while and feel safe that they could hang with most of what's on the road. Ms are for those who like to find that back road and tear it up or go tracking on that off day of the year.

Different cars for different people. End of story.

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

...The only comparable segments between BMW and MB are:
3 Vs. C
5 Vs. E
X3 Vs. ML
X5 Vs. GL
Z Vs. SLK
..
.

X3 vs MLK
X5 vs ML
X6 vs R
BMW doesn't have a GL equivalant.
Correct me if I am wrong.

[fibercus]

lol - hes got his information all screwed up

[sinnet112]

Originally Posted by cntlaw

X3 vs MLK
X5 vs ML
X6 vs R
BMW doesn't have a GL equivalant.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Speaking of R-class, that has got to be one of the strangest, ugliest looking vehicles around. It's not a mini-van, but it's not a wagon either, but it wants to be an SUV.

[Ikarus]

Originally Posted by spitfire6000

Take the E55 for example...it weighs over a ton more than the M3...yet it accelerates to 60 .2 seconds faster than the m3 (4.4 vs 4.6m3).

It's also about 20 grand more expensive than the M3, needs a 36% larger displacement than the M3 to produce just 12% more horsepower, but is still slower than the M3 except in a straight line and, last but not least, is not available with a manual transmission. For me, it's a no-brainer. I'd take the M3 any day. By the way, the E55, as porky as it is, is not a ton heavier than the M3, but just 1000 lbs heavier.

[AH]

never ending rivalry discussion.