[Red Bread]

PAMdriver, there's nothing to see here, just a blind fanboi who likes the Z4M, move along.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

How is my opinion biased when every magazine and journalist shares the exact same sentiments?? Cayman S IS the BETTER car. It puts down faster laps times, is faster on a back road, is faster in the straights, and does it all while having brilliant steering feel and balance and poise that cant be matched by the Z4M. IT IS the benchmark. Has been since the day it was launched and still is.

Wow, so every single journalist from every single magazine in the world? Amazing. Still haven't explained to me why Top Gear journalists and Top Gear track times favor the Z4m.

So everytime a restaurant critic says a restaurant is bad, it's the gospel?

The Cayman is a better handling car, but as an overall package, the Z4M has it beat in performance and price.

That's why, as a former p-car owner, I chose the Z4M over the Boxster S and Cayman S.

It's simply and undisputably a better car.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

PAMdriver, there's nothing to see here, just a blind fanboi who likes the Z4M, move along.

Very true. The cayman s is a better handling and performing car. Evidence has proven that in spades. I guess I feel like I'm helping. All stats and statistical evidence prove this guy wrong and at least everyone else knows it as well.
Cayman S has it handily beat in ALL performance. You cannot dispute the facts that nearly every track has the cayman s winning and has it faster in straights.
And if we were to compare to the second gen cayman s the beating is worse and evening so with a cayman r. The evidence is indisputable and very one sided to the cayman s no matter what generation it is.
A 1m can't even beat a sdcond gen cayman s or r on the track and it's a more capable car than the z4m.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Wow, so every single journalist from every single magazine in the world? Amazing. Still haven't explained to me why Top Gear journalists and Top Gear track times favor the Z4m.

So everytime a restaurant critic says a restaurant is bad, it's the gospel?

The Cayman is a better handling car, but as an overall package, the Z4M has it beat in performance and price.

That's why, as a former p-car owner, I chose the Z4M over the Boxster S and Cayman S.

It's simply and undisputably a better car.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/indisputably
Not only do you need to brush up on your spelling but you also need to learn the meaning of the words you use. The topic of the two cars is obviously in dispute, right here in this forum and in well known publications.
Just because you chose the Z4M and say its the better car doesnt make it so. Reading this thread I get the impression your head is clearly in the sand.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

Very true. The cayman s is a better handling and performing car. Evidence has proven that in spades. I guess I feel like I'm helping. All stats and statistical evidence prove this guy wrong and at least everyone else knows it as well.
Cayman S has it handily beat in ALL performance. You cannot dispute the facts that nearly every track has the cayman s winning and has it faster in straights.
And if we were to compare to the second gen cayman s the beating is worse and evening so with a cayman r. The evidence is indisputable and very one sided to the cayman s no matter what generation it is.
A 1m can't even beat a sdcond gen cayman s or r on the track and it's a more capable car than the z4m.

Tone down the hyperbole.

If everything you said is true, that the Z4M isn't even in the same CLASS as the Cayman, then why do all the magazines you quote bother to compare them?

Why aren't they comparing the Cayman to the M3 or the 911 if it is SO GOOD?

Now let's use some of your articles you posted: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html

Look at the chart on the bottom:

The Z4M wins on quite a few categories and the Cayman squeeks by on most.

And if you look at the TEST DATA, almost every single category is .1 of a sec between them. Up until 100 mph, almost no difference what so ever.

So the "THRASHING" and "UNDENIABLE SUPERIORITY" and "HANDILY BEAT IN ALL CATEGORIES" of the Cayman over the Z4M is simply part of your imagination.

Bottom line: the Z4M can compete with the Cayman on all technical aspects but far surpasses the Cayman in the "fun" factor, practicality, cost, and feel.

God. The Cayman fanboys are almost as bad as the 350Z/E36 M3/S2000 fanboys.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by NYC6

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/indisputably
Not only do you need to brush up on your spelling but you also need to learn the meaning of the words you use. The topic of the two cars is obviously in dispute, right here in this forum and in well known publications.
Just because you chose the Z4M and say its the better car doesnt make it so. Reading this thread I get the impression your head is clearly in the sand.

You are wrong. Which car is better is not in dispute.

I've already said the Z4M is clearly the better car and it is fact.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

You are wrong. Which car is better is not in dispute.

I've already said the Z4M is clearly the better car and it is fact.

Are you over 25?

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Tone down the hyperbole.

If everything you said is true, that the Z4M isn't even in the same CLASS as the Cayman, then why do all the magazines you quote bother to compare them?

Why aren't they comparing the Cayman to the M3 or the 911 if it is SO GOOD?

Now let's use some of your articles you posted: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html

Look at the chart on the bottom:

The Z4M wins on quite a few categories and the Cayman squeeks by on most.

And if you look at the TEST DATA, almost every single category is .1 of a sec between them. Up until 100 mph, almost no difference what so ever.

So the "THRASHING" and "UNDENIABLE SUPERIORITY" and "HANDILY BEAT IN ALL CATEGORIES" of the Cayman over the Z4M is simply part of your imagination.

Bottom line: the Z4M can compete with the Cayman on all technical aspects but far surpasses the Cayman in the "fun" factor, practicality, cost, and feel.

God. The Cayman fanboys are almost as bad as the 350Z/E36 M3/S2000 fanboys.

Then why did the cayman S win in all the comparos? The only one with an imagination is you because I have shown you all the data available from the most objective evidence out there and it clearly, without question shows the Cayman S has the advantage in a straight or on a track. It also has much better feel and is all around a more sound car. You continue to to skirt around the fact that of all the lap times, the Cayman S wins nearly all of them. In a straight, all the magazines have the Cayman S faster. And Ive actually done a straight line with my Cayman S and Z4M, and the Cayman S was the faster of the two, especially over 100 mph.

All I said was it laid down better lap times, which is FACT and that is it faster (by however much), and that too is FACT.

The cayman S is also more fun to drive IMO, but thats subjective. I like a more sound competant car that puts down better times and has steering feel the z4m and most cars could only wish to have.

I never claimed a Generation 1 cCyman S and Z4M were not in the same class. They are, but the Cayman S has it beat in all regards.

A Generation 2 Cayman S with 6mt or pdk isnt worth comparing because its a step up from either.

And as far as comparing to a 911 or M3, that has been done. All the comparos ive seen of the e9X m3 to the Cayman S, the cayman S won all of those comparos too. And the Cayman S is as good as a 911.

Here's the verdict from MT:

"1st Place


Porsche Cayman S


Still the heir-apparent, lord-in-waiting to the Porsche 911 sports-car icon throne.
2nd Place


BMW Z4 M Coupe

New-perfect weight balance, remarkable grip, formidable power -- just not as much fun as the Porsche."

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

Then why did the cayman S win in all the comparos? The only one with an imagination is you because I have shown you all the data available from the most objective evidence out there and it clearly, without question shows the Cayman S has the advantage in a straight or on a track. It also has much better feel and is all around a more sound car. You continue to to skirt around the fact that of all the lap times, the Cayman S wins nearly all of them. In a straight, all the magazines have the Cayman S faster. And Ive actually done a straight line with my Cayman S and Z4M, and the Cayman S was the faster of the two, especially over 100 mph.

All I said was it laid down better lap times, which is FACT and that is it faster (by however much), and that too is FACT.

The cayman S is also more fun to drive IMO, but thats subjective. I like a more sound competant car that puts down better times and has steering feel the z4m and most cars could only wish to have.

I never claimed a Generation 1 cCyman S and Z4M were not in the same class. They are, but the Cayman S has it beat in all regards.

A Generation 2 Cayman S with 6mt or pdk isnt worth comparing because its a step up from either.

And as far as comparing to a 911 or M3, that has been done. All the comparos ive seen of the e9X m3 to the Cayman S, the cayman S won all of those comparos too. And the Cayman S is as good as a 911.

Here's the verdict from MT:

"1st Place


Porsche Cayman S


Still the heir-apparent, lord-in-waiting to the Porsche 911 sports-car icon throne.
2nd Place


BMW Z4 M Coupe

New-perfect weight balance, remarkable grip, formidable power -- just not as much fun as the Porsche."

"And the Cayman S is as good as a 911." UUUuuuummmmmmmmm, I believe every employee of Porsche would disagree with that statement. It is also evidence that you have lost all credibility and sense of reality.

You are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

You are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how wrong I am.

Fixed for accuracy.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

"And the Cayman S is as good as a 911." UUUuuuummmmmmmmm, I believe every employee of Porsche would disagree with that statement. It is also evidence that you have lost all credibility and sense of reality.

You are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

The Cayman is actually a much more balanced chassis than the 911 and if they both had the same engine the Cayman would outperform it (not including the GT/TT models).

[bassrebel]

Well, back to OP's question...

1999 Ferrari 355 F1

[GammaZeta]

I'm not trolling.

Just spreading the gospel of the Z4M.

[dubsesd]

The cayman s and z4m are both great cars. I chose the z4mc when I was buying a summer sports car because I liked the raw feeling it had and the look of it more than the cayman. Perhaps the cayman is faster in most of the tests, but I could really care less. I rarely go to a drag strip to hammer on the car. This really comes down to preference, so no point of arguing which is better. If I could, I would get a gt3rs, but that's going to have to wait a few more years haha

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by dubsesd

The cayman s and z4m are both great cars. I chose the z4mc when I was buying a summer sports car because I liked the raw feeling it had and the look of it more than the cayman. Perhaps the cayman is faster in most of the tests, but I could really care less. I rarely go to a drag strip to hammer on the car. This really comes down to preference, so no point of arguing which is better. If I could, I would get a gt3rs, but that's going to have to wait a few more years haha

At least you arent trying to spin facts. The Z4M is a hell of a car, but IMO it wasnt as fun to drive and fact remains its slower and doesnt put down as good of track times.
Enjoy your new car!

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

At least you arent trying to spin facts. The Z4M is a hell of a car, but IMO it wasnt as fun to drive and fact remains its slower and doesnt put down as good of track times.
Enjoy your new car!

You know, this is sort of the heart of the whole discussion, and not the same thing as which car is better on a track. I owned a Z3 M Coupe for a dozen years. It was a hot mess on the track. I considered a Cayman S and a Z4M. The Cayman S was clearly the faster, more capable car (sorry Gammy) but the Z4M was more fun (now we're on the same page).

Ten laps in the Cayman at any track would be faster, calmer and more composed, but ten laps in the Zed would be all over the place, probably involve a trip or two through the kitty litter and burned up brake pads and tires, but they'd have been more entertaining, with probably one or two brilliant laps that would be darned close to those Cayman times.

Both the Z3 and Z4 M Coupes are more challenging and inconsistent than the Porsche, but that also makes them more fun as daily drivers. I'd prefer the Cayman for it's more composed ride, more accessible torque and track prowess, but it also just isn't as much fun at acting a fool or putting a smile on my face. Ultimately, I'm not a paid racer and sometimes character is more fun than composure. In that area the Zed wins my heart.

Of course I never bought either one, kept the Z3 M Coupe until this year and am still looking for a replacement. But my takeaway is that while fast is great, some rough edges can also be as much or more fun, a reason that while the Cayman is clearly more capable than the 911, the reward of getting a 911 to do the same thing keeps it a step up the reward ladder for many drivers.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

You know, this is sort of the heart of the whole discussion, and not the same thing as which car is better on a track. I owned a Z3 M Coupe for a dozen years. It was a hot mess on the track. I considered a Cayman S and a Z4M. The Cayman S was clearly the faster, more capable car (sorry Gammy) but the Z4M was more fun (now we're on the same page).

Ten laps in the Cayman at any track would be faster, calmer and more composed, but ten laps in the Zed would be all over the place, probably involve a trip or two through the kitty litter and burned up brake pads and tires, but they'd have been more entertaining, with probably one or two brilliant laps that would be darned close to those Cayman times.

Both the Z3 and Z4 M Coupes are more challenging and inconsistent than the Porsche, but that also makes them more fun as daily drivers. I'd prefer the Cayman for it's more composed ride, more accessible torque and track prowess, but it also just isn't as much fun at acting a fool or putting a smile on my face. Ultimately, I'm not a paid racer and sometimes character is more fun than composure. In that area the Zed wins my heart.

Of course I never bought either one, kept the Z3 M Coupe until this year and am still looking for a replacement. But my takeaway is that while fast is great, some rough edges can also be as much or more fun, a reason that while the Cayman is clearly more capable than the 911, the reward of getting a 911 to do the same thing keeps it a step up the reward ladder for many drivers.

1st of all, the Cayman IS NOT more capable than the 911. Porsche designed it that way on purpose.

2nd of all, again, you're entitled to your own opinion no matter how wrong it is.

Fact: Z4M > Cayman S

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

1st of all, the Cayman IS NOT more capable than the 911. Porsche designed it that way on purpose.

Like for like, a Cayman is indeed faster than a 911. Put the same motor in both, and the Cayman is the faster car.

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

2nd of all, again, you're entitled to your own opinion no matter how wrong it is.

Fact: Z4M > Cayman S

You and facts are clearly not acquainted with each other.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Like for like, a Cayman is indeed faster than a 911. Put the same motor in both, and the Cayman is the faster car.

Sure, and put an M5 motor in an M3 and watch it beat a 911. Anyone can dream up car/engine combinations and say they are faster.

But guess what, the 911 and Cayman DON'T have the same motor.

As everyone in this post is fond of, just go magazine racing and get the "lap times" between a 911 and a Cayman.

Porsche has a hierarchy:

1. 911
2. Cayman
3. Boxster

Each car is specifically designed for a performance and price segment. Just like the M1, M3, M5 and M6.

Porsche could easily modify the Boxster or Cayman to make it faster than a 911. But they didn't.

EDIT: Forget what I said.

I just checked ebay and there are some "higher" mileage 996 GT3's for close to $60,000. If you really shop around, I think it may be doable for a good condition GT3 for around $60,000

In my mind, the GT3 from any year would be the best pure drivers car for $60,000.

Seriously, a 996 GT3 would be AWESOME!

I was also surprised at the 997 GT3 prices for around $70,000 - $80,000.

Hmmmm, maybe I can convince the wife to stay in the condo for a few more years before we build our dream house!!!!!

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

You know, this is sort of the heart of the whole discussion, and not the same thing as which car is better on a track. I owned a Z3 M Coupe for a dozen years. It was a hot mess on the track. I considered a Cayman S and a Z4M. The Cayman S was clearly the faster, more capable car (sorry Gammy) but the Z4M was more fun (now we're on the same page).

Ten laps in the Cayman at any track would be faster, calmer and more composed, but ten laps in the Zed would be all over the place, probably involve a trip or two through the kitty litter and burned up brake pads and tires, but they'd have been more entertaining, with probably one or two brilliant laps that would be darned close to those Cayman times.

Both the Z3 and Z4 M Coupes are more challenging and inconsistent than the Porsche, but that also makes them more fun as daily drivers. I'd prefer the Cayman for it's more composed ride, more accessible torque and track prowess, but it also just isn't as much fun at acting a fool or putting a smile on my face. Ultimately, I'm not a paid racer and sometimes character is more fun than composure. In that area the Zed wins my heart.

Of course I never bought either one, kept the Z3 M Coupe until this year and am still looking for a replacement. But my takeaway is that while fast is great, some rough edges can also be as much or more fun, a reason that while the Cayman is clearly more capable than the 911, the reward of getting a 911 to do the same thing keeps it a step up the reward ladder for many drivers.

The Z4M was def good at being a hooligan wheras the Cayman S would amaze you with the fact that it was nearly infallable and did everything with such ease. Is like any perenial all star in sports, whether its Derek Jeter, Lebron James, you name it...thats the Cayman S. Super talented and always at the top of the game.
I personally thought the Cayman S was still a bit more fun to drive. Nothing like going sideways looking out the side window and being able to come back around whereas the z4m would be in the run off, and quickly. Everything about that car felt more alive and organic to me and thats why in my heart it wins putting the fact thats it performs better aside.
To be honest, the 911 is the single most rewarding car to drive once you get the skill of driving it down...its gotten easier to drive since its becoming a mid engined car though but still the most rewarding to drive.

[tws_andrew]

I think you get a ton more car if you go used at the 60k price point and even slightly used you can do well.
Used Porsche 996 Turbo or 997 c2s. If turbo you can easily get one with 650hp for 60k and decent miles. 996 Turbo must have coils and sways or the handling is terrible. For a highway burner cannot beat this platform. Sport bike beating power for under 70k used.
09 GTR - really this car is so capable it is silly. Having owned 2 and about everything else they blow my mind. GTRs are holding their value so well some have gone up. Midpipe and tune will blow most everything away on the street and you will own about anything at the track if you can drive. I was beating GT3s on cup tires at miller in mine with stage II, stock suspension and upgraded rubber only.
e9x M3 - excellent all around car and by far the most liveable

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

"And the Cayman S is as good as a 911." UUUuuuummmmmmmmm, I believe every employee of Porsche would disagree with that statement. It is also evidence that you have lost all credibility and sense of reality.

You are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

Of course for marketing purposes they wouldn't admit that. But the numbers the Cayman produces and its incredible driving experience for substantially cheaper than a 911 points to the fact that the Cayman is nearly as good as a 911 performance wise. No, its not as iconic, but objectively speaking, it outperformed the 997 in some categories. That's worth noting.