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      12-02-2014, 04:44 PM   #1
kaared
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CO2 emission for a 2007 328i; BMW can't help -- does anyone know?

Hi guys,

For the last couple of weeks I've been trying to find out the CO2 emissions for my 2007 328i (E90) manual sedan. I've called or emailed BMW USA, BMW Germany and BMW Norway, but none of them are able (or willing!) to help me. I need the CO2 emissions to determine the import tax if I want to bring my car with me to Norway from the states.

Germany and Norway have been willing, but unable, to help me -- BMW Norwy says they don't have any data on the car, and BMW Germany says the testing in Europe is different from the US and thus irrelevant.

BMW USA told me that they don't recommend exporting the car because it's made for the US market and therefore they are unable to provide me the CO2 emissions. I thought the CO2 emissions was public record (i.e. EPA requires manufacturers to report this). So I'm baffled at their response.

I did find some documents on the EPA site:
http://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/displa...d=16781&flag=1
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/standards/li.../tier2stds.htm

However I'm not able to make sense of the numbers -- they're way too low from the sub-200 value I'm expecting it to be.

So my question is: does anyone know where I can obtain the CO2 emissions? I will be required to show some reliable proof (e.g. BMW or EPA documents) so I'd be very grateful for any leads or pointers on this.

Thanks!
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      12-02-2014, 05:14 PM   #2
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http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.shtml

Input Y/M/M, and click Energy and Environment

Looks like 6.3 Metric tons per year for your car w/ the manual transmission.
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      12-02-2014, 05:28 PM   #3
kaared
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Wow -- thanks, 335NJ! Much appreciated! :D

I looked it up and it's a whopping 423 g/mile or 262 g/km. Yikes, that means I'll be paying more than $24k just in taxes to import my 8 year old car to Norway.

Thanks again!
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      12-02-2014, 05:30 PM   #4
335NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaared View Post
Wow -- thanks, 335NJ! Much appreciated!

I looked it up and it's a whopping 423 g/mile or 262 g/km. Yikes, that means I'll be paying more than $24k just in taxes to import my 8 year old car to Norway.

Thanks again!
Woah. $24,000 in taxes alone? That doesn't sound right. Have you looked for any over there for sale? Also keep in mind the small print, "vehicles MY2012 and prior, the numbers for CO2 emissions are calculations." Meaning not actual data collected from that specific car in a lab or anything, although I'm sure that's a pretty accurate number.

And no problem man, I googled "CO2 emissions by vehicle"
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      12-02-2014, 06:07 PM   #5
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Yup, $24k taxes -- actually sales tax (VAT) of 25% is extra (for the value of the car itself plus the shipping). It's crazy.

A 2012 328i with 34k km is NOK 450k (about $64k) in Norway. See http://www.finn.no/finn/car/used/res...%2F2132&sort=7 -- it's in Norwegian, but the price is prefixed by "kr" and USD 1 = NOK 7.

Yeah, I've been google-fuing around myself, but couldn't find anything definite.

The weird thing is that the CO2 emissions for a 2007 328i in Germany is *way* lower -- 173 g/km. Here's what BMW Germany replied when I asked them:

(Names and address redacted)

Quote:
Thank you for your email to BMW Customer Service. They forwarded us your request regarding the CO2 emission of your BMW 328i. Due to the US-specification we canīt exhibit a document which confirm the CO2 value of your vehicle .We donīt have any comparable data to the European market. The way how the measure the CO2 emission in the US is completely different to the European standard so we are not able to use these values. The only thing you could do is, to make a separate CO2 measurement which shows the real CO2 emissions. Sorry that we couldn't give you the information which you had expected.
The emphasis is mine. I'm wondering if the value I looked up on the EPA site is usable for my purposes -- the guy seems to be implying there's a fundamental difference between USA and Germany/Europe in this regard...

In my naivete I thought BMW Germany would emission test all their exported models to at least have a record of the emissions they could compare to the EPA or other agencies' results.


EDIT: If I go to http://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-f...ne.html?val=30 and iuse 30 miles per gallon as average fuel consumption (quite high, I know -- best I can do is 36 on highway if I remember correctly) I get about 182 g/km which is within range of the previously mentioned 173 g/km. But I doubt that's going to fly with the government agency in Norway inspecting the car.

Last edited by kaared; 12-02-2014 at 06:26 PM.. Reason: Added comment+link to MPG to g/km conversion.
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      01-06-2015, 12:30 PM   #6
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Conclusion

Hi,

I've got a similar case in Finland with my BMW.

What was the conclusion on your side Kaared?

Thanks.
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      01-06-2015, 12:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335NJ View Post
Woah. $24,000 in taxes alone? That doesn't sound right. Have you looked for any over there for sale? Also keep in mind the small print, "vehicles MY2012 and prior, the numbers for CO2 emissions are calculations." Meaning not actual data collected from that specific car in a lab or anything, although I'm sure that's a pretty accurate number.

And no problem man, I googled "CO2 emissions by vehicle"
Nope, thats correct. Fyi if you are to tune your car you pay 130USD (1000nok) PER HK you increase you engine to. and thats just road taxes then you have insurance ontop of that.

All i have to say is welcome to Norway! (And byebye wallet)

-Hybrid
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      01-06-2015, 02:14 PM   #8
kaared
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jukkok96 View Post
Hi,

I've got a similar case in Finland with my BMW.

What was the conclusion on your side Kaared?

Thanks.
I've put it on hold. I finally got a reply from two people at TUV Nord Finland and TUV Nord Germany, both which stated that they don't have EU CO2 test data for this vehicle (2007 328i). The US EPA testing is not done per EU CO2 regulations so those test data are not acceptable.

TUV Nord Finland suggested I contact their competitors DEKRA and TUV Sud. I'm not very optimistic and I've spent a considerable amount of time probing and waiting for answers so at this point I could go either way (sell it in the states or import it to Norway).

The biggest disappointment in this whole mess is getting straight answers from BMW -- BMW USA has been stonewalling me all the way by refusing to even comment on the issue.

Once I have some free time I'll see if there's another way to calculate the tax using something that does not include the CO2 emissions (e.g. power or used value), but it's more uncertain and more effort.

If I get lucky with DEKRA or TUV Sud I'll let you know by posting back here. Please do the same if you find out anything!

Good luck!
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      01-06-2015, 02:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaared View Post
Wow -- thanks, 335NJ! Much appreciated!

I looked it up and it's a whopping 423 g/mile or 262 g/km. Yikes, that means I'll be paying more than $24k just in taxes to import my 8 year old car to Norway.

Thanks again!
That is why everyone in Norway is buying Teslas.
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      01-06-2015, 04:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk36 View Post
That is why everyone in Norway is buying Teslas.
Damn you are correct sir! I live in Stavanger and holy shit there is teslas everywhere. even the taxies are teslas. People here view them as a regular car and just meeeeeeeeh. they also dont have to pay road taxes and all autopass travel is free.

-Hybrid
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