▀▄ eas | S65 Rod Bearing Replacement: An ongoing "Journal"

[M3thodical]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Get an extended warranty and don't read threads with the word "bearing" in the subject and you will have years of happiness.

Sounds like great advice and I think I'll go with that. Would you recommend a warranty from the dealer or one of those other outfits?

[pbonsalb]

I agree you should consider protecting yourself in some way. I am not sure how many years of warranty coverage you can buy for the $2000 it would cost to change the rod bearings, but you also get coverage for other issues that could arise. I guess when that warranty is up, you (a) sell the car, (b) buy another warranty if you can get one for a car that is now 8 years old or (c) spend $2k on a preventative rod bearing change.

[LSx]

Originally Posted by squartus

This will tell you everything you need to know about it in detail http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838
Not just the bearings that's the issue, or the oil. All facts in this post with no hearsay/gossip.

Oh nice, actual tear down pictures....Mondello made a mint off being the guru with Oldsmobile motors which suffered from the same factory induced failures. To fix the oil starvation issue when building those old piece of junk, you grind the cheeks and mill a .010" deep slot for additional oil removal similar to what was done in that link.

The simplest solution to the problem in-chassis is to remove the crankshaft and have it ground for both bearing clearance and cheek clearance, it's a relatively simple operation for a good crank grinder. If you have the motor torn down then the simplest fix is to grind the rods as was done in that link, but with an assembled motor you can remove the crank without needing to pull the heads off and piston assemblies out.

If you know the root cause, then there's no point in continually replacing smoked bearings and constantly having metal floating in your oil and getting up on the cylinder walls.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by M3thodical

Sounds like great advice and I think I'll go with that. Would you recommend a warranty from the dealer or one of those other outfits?

if you are not looking to mod your car perforuamce wise, tuning, exhuast, superchargers. then there is no reason not to try to have a warranty on your car for many years.

[slimmj0k3r]

Thank goodness I found this thread. Pulling the trigger on a private party m3 next weekend and WILL DEF get an Oil analysis done this week!

[Stainless 45]

Has anyone been in touch with any bearing mfg companies regarding offering a bearing with better clearances, to solve the issue and avoid a bottom end rebuild every 50k miles?

[wrecklessfool]

Originally Posted by Stainless 45

Has anyone been in touch with any bearing mfg companies regarding offering a bearing with better clearances, to solve the issue and avoid a bottom end rebuild every 50k miles?

I believe kawasaki00 has been in touch with Clevite to offer rod bearings with the proper clearances. Last word I heard was that they were still in development and this was a few weeks ago in another bearing thread. This was quoted from a post of his on November 4th:

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

99% sure funds are now available and the ball has started to roll. RG and I have been in communication with Clevite and that is about all the info I can give right now.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Stainless 45

Has anyone been in touch with any bearing mfg companies regarding offering a bearing with better clearances, to solve the issue and avoid a bottom end rebuild every 50k miles?

Originally Posted by wrecklessfool

I believe kawasaki00 has been in touch with Clevite to offer rod bearings with the proper clearances. Last word I heard was that they were still in development and this was a few weeks ago in another bearing thread. This was quoted from a post of his on November 4th:

Thread has been posted

[xaappx]

Reviving this thread. Any more info?

[Rcase]

Originally Posted by xaappx

Reviving this thread. Any more info?

I could really use some help Tom et al. I purchased my 08 E90 Manual with 49k miles back in January. I now have 52k miles and have religiously pampered it. I only recently started with modifications, all the bolt ons and a BPM tune. Being paranoid (I work in cybersecurity, everything makes me paranoid), I had a blackstone analysis ran on my oil that was just shy of 3k miles (although I did mention 5k on the report, I wasn't completely paying attention to exact mileage at the time).

My Lead count came back at 74 , Iron 28.

I am in the midwest, nowhere near the shops and a candidly given how high my numbers are , I am not confident in driving it across the country.

What can I do? Its going to cost me a fortune to pay for the bearings to be replaced and ship the car out to EAS. Are there any shops in Chicago? Anyone that can validate the quality of work? A few shops on the east coast (Which really doesn't change anything at this point , I won't be driving the car extensively) chimed in with similar completed jobs similar to EAS.

Every level was high , the feedback was that my numbers were far in excess of the average @6K miles.

What do I do? if EAS was local I would schedule immediately. For those of you fortunate to live in Sunny California where perfect weather and opportunties are around every corner - awesome. In BFE Illinois where all I can do is ride my bike and go to work, I consider myself one of the more competent mechanics.

I have done full engine rebuilds on small block fords. I do not feel comfortable as I lack the tools to appropriately stretch the bolts (just one example).

[wrecklessfool]

Originally Posted by Rcase

I could really use some help Tom et al. I purchased my 08 E90 Manual with 49k miles back in January. I now have 52k miles and have religiously pampered it. I only recently started with modifications, all the bolt ons and a BPM tune. Being paranoid (I work in cybersecurity, everything makes me paranoid), I had a blackstone analysis ran on my oil that was just shy of 3k miles (although I did mention 5k on the report, I wasn't completely paying attention to exact mileage at the time).

My Lead count came back at 74 , Iron 28.

I am in the midwest, nowhere near the shops and a candidly given how high my numbers are , I am not confident in driving it across the country.

What can I do? Its going to cost me a fortune to pay for the bearings to be replaced and ship the car out to EAS. Are there any shops in Chicago? Anyone that can validate the quality of work? A few shops on the east coast (Which really doesn't change anything at this point , I won't be driving the car extensively) chimed in with similar completed jobs similar to EAS.

Every level was high , the feedback was that my numbers were far in excess of the average @6K miles.

What do I do? if EAS was local I would schedule immediately. For those of you fortunate to live in Sunny California where perfect weather and opportunties are around every corner - awesome. In BFE Illinois where all I can do is ride my bike and go to work, I consider myself one of the more competent mechanics.

I have done full engine rebuilds on small block fords. I do not feel comfortable as I lack the tools to appropriately stretch the bolts (just one example).

You need to give IND a call. Google IND Distribution. They're in Lake Zurich, IL which is less than an hour from Chicago. Certainly closer than California and you can expect the same quality from IND as you can from anywhere else like EAS, etc.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by wrecklessfool

You need to give IND a call. Google IND Distribution. They're in Lake Zurich, IL which is less than an hour from Chicago. Certainly closer than California and you can expect the same quality from IND as you can from anywhere else like EAS, etc.

+1 for IND. Their work is second to none!

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Rcase

I could really use some help Tom et al. I purchased my 08 E90 Manual with 49k miles back in January. I now have 52k miles and have religiously pampered it. I only recently started with modifications, all the bolt ons and a BPM tune. Being paranoid (I work in cybersecurity, everything makes me paranoid), I had a blackstone analysis ran on my oil that was just shy of 3k miles (although I did mention 5k on the report, I wasn't completely paying attention to exact mileage at the time).

My Lead count came back at 74 , Iron 28.

I am in the midwest, nowhere near the shops and a candidly given how high my numbers are , I am not confident in driving it across the country.

What can I do? Its going to cost me a fortune to pay for the bearings to be replaced and ship the car out to EAS. Are there any shops in Chicago? Anyone that can validate the quality of work? A few shops on the east coast (Which really doesn't change anything at this point , I won't be driving the car extensively) chimed in with similar completed jobs similar to EAS.

Every level was high , the feedback was that my numbers were far in excess of the average @6K miles.

What do I do? if EAS was local I would schedule immediately. For those of you fortunate to live in Sunny California where perfect weather and opportunties are around every corner - awesome. In BFE Illinois where all I can do is ride my bike and go to work, I consider myself one of the more competent mechanics.

I have done full engine rebuilds on small block fords. I do not feel comfortable as I lack the tools to appropriately stretch the bolts (just one example).

Do you have any additional Blackstone tests to compare with as an average?

[Bartledoo]

Just picked up a 2011 E90 M with under 14k miles, and I'm pretty terrified about the rod bearing issue. I'm about to send a sample to Blackstone, and I'll be purchasing the bearing/bolt kits from you guys within the year. However, sending the car all the way from DC to the West coast is a bit unrealistic. Would you guys recommend a shop near DC?

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by ksteckba

Just picked up a 2011 E90 M with under 14k miles, and I'm pretty terrified about the rod bearing issue. I'm about to send a sample to Blackstone, and I'll be purchasing the bearing/bolt kits from you guys within the year. However, sending the car all the way from DC to the West coast is a bit unrealistic. Would you guys recommend a shop near DC?

The hysteria is getting bad. why did you buy the car to worry? Don't worry too much.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by s85e90

The hysteria is getting bad. why did you buy the car to worry? Don't worry too much.

I agree in theory, 100%.

Problem is when the failure or issue is so severe that the fix costs 50% of the value of the car (20k assuming 40k car value), that is potentially unaffordable for many owners and devestating

That's the saddest part about this issue. If things go wrong, it's disastrous

[pbonsalb]

Maybe RRT in Dulles. But you have about a 99% chance the bearings will cause no issues. If you are not comfortable with that risk -- there were enough reports for me to be uncomfortable (I did the bearing change and mine had copper showing around the parting lines) -- you can either buy an aftermarket warranty or do a preventative maintenance bearing change. If you could get 4 years of warranty for about $3k, that would be my recommendation. Do the bearing change after it expires.

[Mr. Liu]

Originally Posted by ksteckba

Just picked up a 2011 E90 M with under 14k miles, and I'm pretty terrified about the rod bearing issue. I'm about to send a sample to Blackstone, and I'll be purchasing the bearing/bolt kits from you guys within the year. However, sending the car all the way from DC to the West coast is a bit unrealistic. Would you guys recommend a shop near DC?

Wut

[LangRacingDevelopment]

If bearing clearance is the issue then why isn't anyone talking about the main bearings?

[pbonsalb]

My understanding is that the main bearings are sized appropriately but the rod bearings are not, based on bearing maker recommendations. Main bearings have been mentioned, but for engines that have failed, the failure has been almost always attributed to rod bearings.

You have taken apart some of these engines, so you know more than most. Are you seeing engines failing from main bearings anywhere near as much as from rod bearings? How do the main bearings look compared to the rod bearings, in general?

There is a video of a teardown that Gintani did a few years ago that showed bad main bearings, and MRF has commented on main bearing wear. Other than that, there has not been documentation of an issue.

[Rcase]

Originally Posted by s85e90

The hysteria is getting bad. why did you buy the car to worry? Don't worry too much.

I suppose thats easy to say if you a) are not part of the percentage with failed bearings , b) do not perform the risk analysis on the failures against the costs due to complete failure.

[Rcase]

Update.

EAS - I hope it is ok to post in your thread, I apologize I did not send business your way, however your continued focus on this is important for upcoming owners and current owners alike.

Per the advice of Mike @ BPM as well as many forum members, I reached out to Scott @ Rennology in North Aurora. I towed the car up after renting a U-Haul trailer - I would soon find out that was a very smart move. I chose to use the VAC bearings. While the debates on tolerances have merit - I was not going to have OEM bearings installed expecting a different outcome. At least with this route I can feel like I did something right/wrong indifferent.

Scott did a tremendous job of keeping me up to date and accommodating for my schedule. I dropped it off late Wednesday night, dropped me key in the drop box and left the parts in the trunk. Scott acknowledged he started the car thursday morning.

By noon on thursday he had the car torn down, imminent failure was found. Scott took a detailed diary of everything for me (which was a huge plus). Nearly all of my upper bearings were severely worn, however Cylinder 4 was definitely the worst. This is interesting as I was under the impression that 8 would be the worst.



Cylinder 4 Upper



While my car had substantial ticking from Day 1 of ownership, it was clear when the bearings reached a near failure limit. Odd sounds at Start-Up, a more distinct deeper tick.

I would highly recommend Scott@Rennology. His shop was insanely clean, he let me purchase my own parts to save on costs. I kept the old bearings as a reminder that not all paranoia on the web is false. A little over 2k invested to save 15-20K - thats great paranoia in my book.

At this time the car has approximately 650 miles on it. As per both VAC and Rennology, I have not used the car above 5k RPM or the M button , WOT, etc until my first oil change at 1k miles. VAC was a little less cautious, however I trust my builder and prefer to be on the safe side.

The only difficult part is how good these cars sound above 5k , patience is a virtue I suppose. I now know the car was done correctly, by a professional that cares about the outcome of my car. Scott is an enthusiast like the rest of us.

http://www.rennology.com - Please do not hesitate to call. NO i was not compensated in any way for this post, the write-up, or the praise. I did it as I want others to know the facts on my 08.