[nicksm3]

Something to consider….

EV cars obviously heavier which means running cost of consumables are greater especially TIRES when the wheels are larger these days (bling status). Then we have LARGER ROTORS to slow the heavy pig down.
In my world this is an epic fail and will never justify any of this!

I can see it now just like the Mustang GT500 clients I've instructed over the last year - "my tires are shot in just one day!! And I have no pads left". :

Driving on track or not….it's a NO go. Now if the EV cars were marginally lighter then we may be on to something - Happy Charging

[freakystyly]

During regular usage the brakes will outlast ICE equivalent thanks to regenerative braking. Tires, well that's usage based.. trucks don't go through tires every 5 minutes I assume.

[Herrkie]

I'm gonna keep saying it, I hate the new grill... Definitely don't mind the EV part of it though, but they should focus more on their hybrid models as a good middle ground...

[kjx]

Originally Posted by Dr.Deep

It somehow is a good analogy, but at the same time it's not. There are two big huge factors that make the difference here.
One main reason that mechanical watches are that much desired is hand craftsmanship, rarity and thst they are mainly high luxury goods.

But the even bigger factor are governments and regulations. Nobody forced watch manufacturers to build digital watches, it was driven by new technology and possibilities to have more features in a watch, in the end people realized that they don't need all this on their wrists.

But car manufacturers are forced by regulations and governments to go the EV way. They would be more than happy to go on with loud and high volume engines and just make a lot of money without having to invest in new facilities and manufacturing tools and processes. But the world has changed, so cars are changing….

If there were regulations and government mandates that forced the use of digital watches, while that would have increased usage, it would have made them even less desirable ("don't shove this down my throat", "they must suck if the govt needs to force/incentivize me to get them").

Fewer mechanical watches would have been produced and those would have been even rarer and even more valuable.

In 30 years when most of us are much older, hopefully alive, and hopefully much wealthier, what do you think people here will find more desirable and pay through the nose for: a 2022 Model 3 Performance or a 2023 BMW M4 Competition, given that much better electric drivetrains and battery tech will exist then; and the M4 probably was the pinnacle of a pure ICE drivetrain at the price point prior to going hybrid, then electric.

In 100 years, both cars could be in a museum - one being celebrated as a work of art - a "how did this even work" kind of piece. While the other will be the rudimentary self-driving-wannabe predecessor to the electric cars of the day. There will be a note on how many people got themselves killed using FSD for people then to incredulously read. Only the billionaire equivalents of today may manage to have gas cars until their collections.

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by kjx

If there were regulations and government mandates that forced the use of digital watches, while that would have increased usage, it would have made them even less desirable ("don't shove this down my throat", "they must suck if the govt needs to force/incentivize me to get them").

Fewer mechanical watches would have been produced and those would have been even rarer and even more valuable.

In 30 years when most of us are much older, hopefully alive, and hopefully much wealthier, what do you think people here will find more desirable and pay through the nose for: a 2022 Model 3 Performance or a 2023 BMW M4 Competition, given that much better electric drivetrains and battery tech will exist then; and the M4 probably was the pinnacle of a pure ICE drivetrain at the price point prior to going hybrid, then electric.

In 100 years, both cars could be in a museum - one being celebrated as a work of art - a "how did this even work" kind of piece. While the other will be the rudimentary self-driving-wannabe predecessor to the electric cars of the day. There will be a note on how many people got themselves killed using FSD for people then to incredulously read. Only the billionaire equivalents of today may manage to have gas cars until their collections.

Yes, the same what happens today....what are the most expensive cars today? Old ICE cars...and why are they that expensive? Because they are rare, and most of them belong to the "luxury cars". There are a ton of "old" cars out there that nobody cares about.

But on the other hand...our cars from today won't last nearly as long as the old-timers today. There is so much electronics, displays, need to connect to a network and so on..these things won't age well. And cars in today's world are not build to last forever...so you can't compare that like that. In 30 years, people will still look at the cars from the beginning, our cars will just be "one step" in their evolution...

[Teutonic]

Keep it.
I will stick with what I have.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by chris719

It's going to have to be funded and solved. It's not an intractable problem, just one without funding right now in many places. Once the donor class has to endure rolling blackouts they will build infrastructure.

I believe that you do not understand that there is no energy to buy.

Itis not about funding. You can have a lot of money, if there is not enough product there is nothing to buy.

On another note, the majority of all neighbourhoods in the world are the same: not ready tosupport an electric vehicle in each household as that will put a lot of stress on the grid.
When all thet electric infrastructure will be replaced, wait and see how much you will pay tocharge your car so they can recuperate their costs (which will follow the cell tower formula, it was paid 20 years ago but you will still pay “bacause is expensive).

The world that buys the green ideea is plainly stupid and dangerous as it will destroy this planet more than ever.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by claudioagmfilho

Fast sport cars with no engine noise, are like a pizza without it's sauce. This could hurt BMW. BMW is known worldwide due to their quality engines and their engine noises, there is a pseudosexuality to sports car noise that appeals to a particular consumer demographic, that true passion that comes alive when you hear the engine. But if there is no noise, than there is no passion to be kept alive? Not to all of use but to almost all of us.
What I mean by that is that, sport cars may die as they become electric. Further down the line, cars will be like electricity, you ask for it and will come for you. Further down the line even, you won't be allowed to drive anymore, only at a private area, it will be a hobby to drive, since you're putting other people's lives in danger, based on your decisions with your car on the road etc. Cars will be auto-driven...

Lol. Have you not heard the S engines? They sound fucking horrendous!! 🤣. F 80-82 may be one of the worse sounding cars ever made. Mine is livable with AA EQ and Akro everything else. But I or no one else would ever say it sounds good. I don't think they are known for having good sounding engines. My opinion

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by Dr.Deep

It somehow is a good analogy, but at the same time it's not. There are two big huge factors that make the difference here.
One main reason that mechanical watches are that much desired is hand craftsmanship, rarity and thst they are mainly high luxury goods.

But the even bigger factor are governments and regulations. Nobody forced watch manufacturers to build digital watches, it was driven by new technology and possibilities to have more features in a watch, in the end people realized that they don't need all this on their wrists.

But car manufacturers are forced by regulations and governments to go the EV way. They would be more than happy to go on with loud and high volume engines and just make a lot of money without having to invest in new facilities and manufacturing tools and processes. But the world has changed, so cars are changing….

I think the analogy is actually quite good. And I disagree that the market doesn't want technology on their wrist. I see exponentially more Apple watches than any other kind of time piece. Yes, mechanical watches have their niche, but it's like vinyl records, to some they are the holy grail, but the masses are fine with Spotify.

With that said, I am a gear head at heart and miss my e30 m3 dearly, but EVs are the way to go for mainstream transport. Hopefully solid state brings about a way for manufacturers to make lighter weight fun cars again.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

These cars will be too heavy and not enjoyable. Vehicle dynamics are about more than how fast a car goes around a track. The feedback, chassis/steering feel and crisp handling is what matters in a sports car. I don't want a pig weighing 4-5000lbs, I was a light, nimble car that has ample power, but is communicative.

I'm sure that's what all the horse and buggy riders said when cars were first invented.

[FrozenGT]

You guys need to get over it, lol This is the same debate people had with petrol engines vs steam powered engines were still being built. Who would want to put gasoline into a car with motor oil when they can just use water and steam power.

Personally I'm tired of gasoline engines the inconsistency of horsepower most importantly people buy cheap stupid intakes and cheap exhaust and make their car sound like garbage. with electric cars this opens up a whole new wealth of tuning and a whole new wealth in generation of technology.

[ArkhamM5]

Electric cars are as unsustainable as fossil fuel car and possibly even worse. Mining is huge where im from, electric cars are far from enviromentally friendly. We mine the rare mineral ore in foriegn countries, ship it and refine it in another, ship it and process it in another, build the car and then charge it with fossil fuels lmao. So we are gonna be in the same situation with minerals as we are with fossil fuels. All electric cars do is move the pollution away from that user to feel better.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by mr_z4mc1m_oz

Here in Australia they were only saying on the news yesterday that our electrical power supply is at critical levels and only expected to worsen over the next few years. What's going up happen when everyone plugs in their cars at night to charge, when we can't even keep lights and air conditioning on 🤔

You just wont own a car.

You'll "own nothing and be happy" according to the non elected WEF, who all the world governments are falling over to appease.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by jmack123

I'm sure that's what all the horse and buggy riders said when cars were first invented.

Not quite the same. We are at peak ICE right now, electric cars won't match the dynamics of them for a while. I will miss the fun you can have once we aren't given a choice.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

Not quite the same. We are at peak ICE right now, electric cars won't match the dynamics of them for a while. I will miss the fun you can have once we aren't given a choice.

I agree, it is different as for example, we are still allowed to ride horse and buggy if we so choose. I would agree that being mandated that we are no longer allowed to drive ICE vehicles is not ideal. I would say however that any new tech often has inherent flaws initially (e.g. cell phone battery capacity etc), however we can't extrapolate the benefits/drawbacks of electric vs. ICE based on the first couple of generations. It will take a bit, but ultimately the drawbacks (e.g. weight, raw material input costs) will be negated (relative to ICE) and will eventually surpass ICE in every way (except perhaps driving experiences such as exhaust note of course).

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

I believe that you do not understand that there is no energy to buy.

It is not about funding. You can have a lot of money, if there is not enough product there is nothing to buy.

Total nonsense. There will be energy created to satisfy demand. Did we remain at 1950s level baseload? No, it has steadily increased.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Can’t wait, going to make my g82 feel slow

That Dragy result is from a stock G82???

[Game]

Looks pretty badass too me.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by jmack123

I agree, it is different as for example, we are still allowed to ride horse and buggy if we so choose. I would agree that being mandated that we are no longer allowed to drive ICE vehicles is not ideal. I would say however that any new tech often has inherent flaws initially (e.g. cell phone battery capacity etc), however we can't extrapolate the benefits/drawbacks of electric vs. ICE based on the first couple of generations. It will take a bit, but ultimately the drawbacks (e.g. weight, raw material input costs) will be negated (relative to ICE) and will eventually surpass ICE in every way (except perhaps driving experiences such as exhaust note of course).

There really aren't benefits for BEV (Battery electric) They cost more and will continue to cost more as prices increase for rare earth materials needed to create them, and their ability to charge is based around infrastructure that literally doesn't exist - but people claim and hope it will, and finally, the ability to repair or resell/utilize for as long as a ICE vehicle isn't there.

No one is going to want a regular BEV when Solid state batteries hit the market in 2 years, and no one will be able to afford to repair or replace a battery pack if they are damaged. BEV vehicles also get worse as they age - charging speed slows, battery capacity and range drop.

You're not going to save the planet by forcing people to buy more stuff. This isn't about going "green" it is, and always has been about control.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

There really aren't benefits for BEV (Battery electric) They cost more and will continue to cost more as prices increase for rare earth materials needed to create them, and their ability to charge is based around infrastructure that literally doesn't exist - but people claim and hope it will, and finally, the ability to repair or resell/utilize for as long as a ICE vehicle isn't there.

No one is going to want a regular BEV when Solid state batteries hit the market in 2 years, and no one will be able to afford to repair or replace a battery pack if they are damaged. BEV vehicles also get worse as they age - charging speed slows, battery capacity and range drop.

You're not going to save the planet by forcing people to buy more stuff. This isn't about going "green" it is, and always has been about control.

I would first say that I wasn't referring to "BEVs", I was referring to "EVs", so a solid-state powered vehicle is still an EV, thus you kinda proved my point. The fact is (and we are seeing this with BMW EVs) that manufactures have already found ways around using rare Earth minerals. And the infrastructure isn't there? You do realize the petroleum infrastructure didn't just materialize out of thin air right? It took time for that to ramp up to. Everything you outlined are fixable issues. The cost of materials are ALWAYS higher with new technology, which is why it cost the average family's salary in the 50s for a computer. How much would a computer with the same compute cost now? Again, you guys tend to be pretty short-sighted and fail to realize that limitations now won't equate to limitations even 15 years from now. How many EVs were on the road 15 years ago?

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by therealm3

I think the analogy is actually quite good. And I disagree that the market doesn't want technology on their wrist. I see exponentially more Apple watches than any other kind of time piece. Yes, mechanical watches have their niche, but it's like vinyl records, to some they are the holy grail, but the masses are fine with Spotify.

With that said, I am a gear head at heart and miss my e30 m3 dearly, but EVs are the way to go for mainstream transport. Hopefully solid state brings about a way for manufacturers to make lighter weight fun cars again.

It's not about that the market doesn't want technology…what I wanted to say that it's not the technology that is making something desirable or not.

And you are making the main point here….the masses are fine with spotify, as they are with EVs. They want a car that brings them from A to B. If it's EV or not, they don't care that much. And the masses in the end are driving what direction the manufacturers put more attention to.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

That Dragy result is from a stock G82???

Close, just JB4 map 2, an intake, and some ethanol. Best I got completely stock was 3.20. These things are rockets bring on the quad motors lol