[TheRox]

Battle BMW 5 series and E Class

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11103233...pment---report


Given that the Panamera detroys the 7 series in terms of handling etc...and novelty (its a Porsche v. a lesser badged BMW and it looks unique, now that Ferrari is copying the bodystyle as are other GT cars)...this 5-series competitor seems promising. It will end up killing the 5 series -- which has recently gone more luxury than sport.

Who would buy a BMW when a better handling Porsche has the badge and the handling and the unique Porsche look?

Porsche is clearly going downmarket...and the badge is going to mean more Porsches running around (the new $40 000 Cajun, baby Caynne is going to help Porsche go downmarket)...but their handling and performance isn't exactly mediocre...its great value!

This also means one more thing - 911 won't have the status it used to have. Which is good, cuz its ugly...even though it handles the best in class with the engine in the wrong spot.

What do you guys think about a Porsche competitor to the 5 series?

Edit: obviously it won't be called pajun, they'll come up with a better name based on marketing research. Lets also assume that esthetically it looks good...no humpback for the haters out there. (Its not like the 5 series or E class is great looking either)

[Year's_End]

It'll easily be best-in-class, I'd bet money on it. The 5er is too bloated, the E-Class is boring, and the A6 is too predictable. I love the Panamera so I'm all for this idea.

[TK-421]

I wish Porsche, Ferrari, and BMW would be like they were 20-25 years ago. Now BMW's M cars are starting to all be turbocharged, some are SUV's, and all are pigs. Porsche isn't as bad but I think the Cayenne and Panamera lessened the brand and the FF as well for Ferrari but not as much.

/rant

But yeah if it's made, this car would shit all over the 5er, E-class and anything else in it's path.

[Cdnrockies]

I'm not so convinced that this will actually happen. The current Panamera is slotted in between the 5 series/E class and the 7 series/S class in terms of size. To be a direct competitor to the 5/E it would need such a minute decrease in size that it doesn't make sense.

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

I'm not so convinced that this will actually happen. The current Panamera is slotted in between the 5 series/E class and the 7 series/S class in terms of size. To be a direct competitor to the 5/E it would need such a minute decrease in size that it doesn't make sense.

Dude its not size


Its the price.

Everything comes down to money...who cares about the size? People will buy the new Porsche mini-sedan and pay $60K even if its the size of the new 3 series...I know I would.

Porsche handling on the Panamera is just THAT good...it leaves any other sedan I've driven behind...7 series isn't even 20% of the Panamera when it comes to dynamics and feel and interior too (thx Audi!). Plus the Porsche badge...and assumign the rear is nice, which it will be....have you seen the front of the panamera/cayenne....its straight up PIMP.

Way better than bland BMW. Only car that compares in looks is Benz...and Benz will always look classy.



Porsche has.

1. 50 K SUV - Cayenne
2. 40 K SUV - Cajun coming out
3. Boxster - 45 K
4. Cayman - 65 K or so


5. Pajun (or whatever name) - 50-60 K mid-size sedan or small-sedan.


Why wouldn't they? Every other segment of theirs, including the sports car...has the cheap Porsche, why not a sedan? Good-bye BMW 5 series.

[Year's_End]

lol and I thought I liked the Panamera...you seriously do love that thing bro.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by TheRox

Why wouldn't they? Every other segment of theirs, including the sports car...has the cheap Porsche, why not a sedan? Good-bye BMW 5 series.

It is about the size. The rear seat space is extremely limited when compared to an S-class or 7 series. Now you want to shrink it down slightly and have it compete against the E-class or 5 series? There would be no significant difference between the two cars and physically there would be limited trunk and rear seat capacity...something that is important in the mid-size segment.

People do car about size especially when it comes to full size sedans. I recall that your parents were more cross-shopping the full size sedans, not the mid-size ones. Ask them if they still would have bought the Panamera if it had less rear seat room and even less trunk space. Doubt it.

[Elie335i]

frogs will never change their design.

[FStop7]

If Porsche brings out a revival of the 928, a front engine 2+2 GT with a twin turbo V8... man I would have to give that car some serious thought.

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

It is about the size. The rear seat space is extremely limited when compared to an S-class or 7 series. Now you want to shrink it down slightly and have it compete against the E-class or 5 series? There would be no significant difference between the two cars and physically there would be limited trunk and rear seat capacity...something that is important in the mid-size segment.

People do car about size especially when it comes to full size sedans. I recall that your parents were more cross-shopping the full size sedans, not the mid-size ones. Ask them if they still would have bought the Panamera if it had less rear seat room and even less trunk space. Doubt it.

I guess what I'm saying is...for those who want a lot of rear space, have you been in the current 5 series? THe new one? It doesn't have that much more rear space than my e90...I know because we considered it, it was not more comfortable than my e90 at the back...maybe 1 or 2 inches more space.

And the back seats are flat in the 5...like a washboard...in the Panamera, you get amazing rear seats, the only car that compared (barely) was the S550...even it didn't have full bucket seats that were supportive unless you got the extended luxury seat package or whatever its called.



Anyways...I'm happy with my 335xi -- just wouldn't get an xi if I did it all over again, would get an i -- AWD spoils the fun with a 6MT.

But yea to sum up on topic...you're right size matters, but for those folks the 5 series isn't that spacious at the back, and they're likely to get an SUV or the E-class which actually does have some space back there.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

It is about the size. The rear seat space is extremely limited when compared to an S-class or 7 series. Now you want to shrink it down slightly and have it compete against the E-class or 5 series? There would be no significant difference between the two cars and physically there would be limited trunk and rear seat capacity...something that is important in the mid-size segment.

People do car about size especially when it comes to full size sedans. I recall that your parents were more cross-shopping the full size sedans, not the mid-size ones. Ask them if they still would have bought the Panamera if it had less rear seat room and even less trunk space. Doubt it.

This. Class segments are influenced by price, but more importantly by size and interior volume. I'll explain down below.

Originally Posted by TheRox

I guess what I'm saying is...for those who want a lot of rear space, have you been in the current 5 series? THe new one? It doesn't have that much more rear space than my e90...I know because we considered it, it was not more comfortable than my e90 at the back...maybe 1 or 2 inches more space.

And the back seats are flat in the 5...like a washboard...in the Panamera, you get amazing rear seats, the only car that compared (barely) was the S550...even it didn't have full bucket seats that were supportive unless you got the extended luxury seat package or whatever its called.



Anyways...I'm happy with my 335xi -- just wouldn't get an xi if I did it all over again, would get an i -- AWD spoils the fun with a 6MT.

But yea to sum up on topic...you're right size matters, but for those folks the 5 series isn't that spacious at the back, and they're likely to get an SUV or the E-class which actually does have some space back there.

The 5 series has about the same rear seating space as the E-Class and A6, but the Panamera is about a half foot longer than the F10, which would make the rear obviously larger. You can't compare the rear seats between the two anyways; the Panamera only offers two buckets, which explains why they're more nicely appointed as well. The F10 has a traditional 40/20/40 bench layout, making sculpted buckets impossible for the sake of practicality.

Feel free to ignore this post.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

The 5 series has about the same rear seating space as the E-Class and A6, but the Panamera is about a half foot longer than the F10, which would make the rear obviously larger. You can't compare the rear seats between the two anyways; the Panamera only offers two buckets, which explains why they're more nicely appointed as well. The F10 has a traditional 40/20/40 bench layout, making sculpted buckets impossible for the sake of practicality.

Feel free to ignore this post.

This is correct. I actually love the Pana and am strongly considering one as a replacement for one of my SUV's. As I mentioned before, it is unique in it's configuration. It's bigger than the mid-size sedan segment, but has no more rear seat room and one less seat. It's smaller than the full size segment, but has significantly less rear seat room. The seats and interior are fantastic in the Pana and are head and shoulders above the 5/A6/E and 7/A8/S.

In addition to the interior, it is also the best handling, best performing car in either segment. I think that was Porsche's intent from the outset and why I find a slightly smaller version far fetched. They are grabbing those in the mid-size segment that are willing to make the slight jump up in price and performance, but also satisfying those in the full size segment that don't need or want a massive car and that value performance/handling more strongly.

And to Rox's question about the F10 5 series, I just spent four days in one as a loaner. The rear seat space is more than adequate for it's class and is noticeably bigger than the E9X's.

[TheRox]

it def isn't going to look like this, but i guess its worth a shot

it will def have elements from the new porsche supercar like the panamera does; the front is not likely to look like the current 997 911 the way this render makes it look like

[DASHOCKER]

Originally Posted by TheRox

it def isn't going to look like this, but i guess its worth a shot

it will def have elements from the new porsche supercar like the panamera does; the front is not likely to look like the current 997 911 the way this render makes it look like

Wow.. I like this alot! I will be in another sedan by the time this beauty comes out.

[RX7guy]

I think porsche can dominate any class it competes in. Look at the panamera, boxster, 911..

eff any 911 haters

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

and the A6 is too predictable. I love the Panamera so I'm all for this idea.

Yup sure would be interesting to see what Porsche could do with the A6 platform.