[py335]

nice review and congrats on the purchase!!! beautiful ///M

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by andrewket

Sigh. Now you have me worried. I love my 6MT, but I need to give it up because of lower back pain. Extending my left leg to push the clutch all the way in aggravates it. Hence, the DCT. Now you have me thinking I should really go look at the M3. Between the fuel economy and the steep depreciation curve I decided to go with 335is. One could also argue that an E93 M3 is a little silly, but I just love convertibles.

Andrew

Don't worry about the DCT. I have 335 with power kit and exhaust (so 335is specs) and love the DCT. I do not have the lag issue described, I find the box very responsive. The only point to get used to is parking where switching between R and D has a small delay. You get used to that very fast. When driving no issue at all. I used 90% of the time the paddles. Love them. You can also use the gearlever to switch gear which work good as well.

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by Go Autobahn

OK, I was able to test drive the 335is for a second time today, just to see if putting the drive stick in "Sport" mode would make any difference.

Second Driving test results:
I drove around for about 10 minutes at varying speed just to make sure it was properly warmed up.

Next, I started off with the sport button ON, but the stick in NORMAL mode (not sport mode), so that I could baseline the performance, just to make sure it was doing the same thing it did 2 days ago when I first tested it. As expected, it had the same lag. It is between 1 and 1.5 seconds. What happens is (from a dead stop, idling at just under 1K RPM), as soon as I hit the gas pedal hard, the RPM's immediately jump to 1,700 RPM and just hang around for 1 to 1.5 seconds, and then I start to hear the whoosh of the turbos, and then it just takes off hard after that.

Next, I put the stick in SPORT mode, so now I have both the sport button (throttle response) and the DCT mode (high revving shift points) in sport mode as well. What happened is the following: It still had the exact same 1.5 second lag, but once that was over I was in for a hell of a shock. The car rocketed forward and I was pressed so hard into my seat I could hardly believe it! I thought it was a fluke, so I tried it again several times. This is the real deal!

I also figured out that there is a way around this 1.5 second lag problem. This car comes with launch control (LC). Mind you, I didn't actually try it because this is a brand new car that is still for sale, but from what I have read in the user's manual, the LC lets you keep the car at a high rev while standing still, and by simply releasing the brake pedal, it immediately takes off. This will surely bypass the lag because the engine is already past the turbo spin-up lag time, if you have it revving at 3000 to 3500 RPM already from the start.

Anyway, the car was a blast to drive, and it just feels much lighter on its feet than the M3, IMHO.

To all of you who are waiting your last 1 or 2 weeks before taking delivery of your new 335is, hang in there, it is well worth the wait!

there you go
Still surprised you have that lag issue. Maybe it is something related to the software, don't know, but I do not have such issue when driving away and for sure not when rolling.
You should really try the paddles or, if you don't like them, the gearlever. Pushing forward to shift back, pulling the shift up. Great feeling, immediate response (not like in an automatic), and nice rev matching with popping exhaust when shifting back

Cool the dealer gave you the possibility. Here they would never let you drive a new car which is for sale, you can only drive a demo car.

[335silver]

Originally Posted by Go Autobahn

...I didn't try any paddle shifting. I'm not much of a fan of it, and never mess with them. I grew up on all stick-shift cars, and the paddles don't come close to the experience of feeling directly connected with the car like a manual, so I don't bother with it.

So....why did you go DCT???

[Go Autobahn]

Originally Posted by 335silver

So....why did you go DCT???

Because I used to have a manual, and I nearly wore my arm out with the repetitive motion of arm shifting and leg clutch pumping in city traffic.
Besides, the M-DCT shifts way more efficiently than I would ever hope to be able to with a manual.

[Go Autobahn]

Originally Posted by marcel b

there you go
Still surprised you have that lag issue. Maybe it is something related to the software, don't know, but I do not have such issue when driving away and for sure not when rolling.

Well, given the dramatic variability I encountered between the black M3 and the red M3, there is just as much chance that the next 335is will not have the lag.
Who knows.
If you are taking delivery in the very near future of a 335is with DCT, PLEASE follow up and post your driving impressions on this thread. I'm very interested in seeing the results come in.

[335silver]

Originally Posted by Go Autobahn

... Anyway, the car was a blast to drive, and it just feels much lighter on its feet than the M3, IMHO. ...

Very curious about your observation there...was it the 150lbs less weight, or do you think it was the torque. Chassis or engine, so to speak?

[Go Autobahn]

Originally Posted by 335silver

Very curious about your observation there...was it the 150lbs less weight, or do you think it was the torque. Chassis or engine, so to speak?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the accelleration for the 335is came without a huge load roar like the M3. It seemed more smooth and effortless for the car to get up to speed. I did hear the turbos making the whoosh noise, but it wasn't nearly as loud as the M3 growl as it accellerated. It does also feel indeed like a lighter car, although 150 pounds isn't very much to be able to notice.

[Slickrat]

Originally Posted by slavke

nice review and congrats on new ride. The lag you were speaking of for black m3 and 335 sounds like trany lag like most people said. This is a perfect example why I prefer manuals any time any day. I want to full control of my gears all the time. Anyways, how about some interior shots?

Clutch delay valve.......Get one from supreme power...will fix that in your MT

[335silver]

Originally Posted by Go Autobahn

... although 150 pounds isn't very much to be able to notice.

Agreed...must be the torque factor

[NagoC50]

Originally Posted by andrewket

So I went and configured an M3 E93, loaded. There are some small differences in the options and packaging. For example, the upgraded stereo in the M3 is 2x that of the 335is. Is the standard audio the same as the upgraded audio in the 335is? I had opted for active steering on the 335is (let's not start a debate about AS), which is not available on the M3. Take AS out of the equation and the difference between the 335is and the M3 goes up $1410. The 335is has a convenience package for $1,140 that includes parking, alarm, and keyless entry. The M3 comes standard with keyless, and offers the alarm and parking sensors as individual items. However, if you add up the three options ala carte you come to the same price, so that's actually a fair comparison.

335is E93 invoice (loaded, standard wheels): $64,805
M3 E93 invoice (loaded, standard wheels): $75,665

That's a difference of $10,860, or 14%. Doesn't take into account the additional taxes (varies state to state, county to county), additional insurance cost, or additional fuel cost.

I really wish I could find a 335is with DCT to test drive.

Andrew

Remember, if you can swing the timing issues, another way to make that M a bit better priced (or the 335 for that matter) is Euro Delivery.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Wow nicely written up....

When ragingclue is happy, I can sleep soundly.

Congrats! You made an excellent choice Loved your in-depth review. Can't believe I didn't see this before.. I saw/contributed to your first thread.

[Go Autobahn]

Originally Posted by Bavarian III

When ragingclue is happy, I can sleep soundly.

Congrats! You made an excellent choice Loved your in-depth review. Can't believe I didn't see this before.. I saw/contributed to your first thread.

Thanks. I have heard from at least 3 people who are taking delivery of their 335is Coupe's this week, and I've been asking all of them to post their own driving impressions on this thread, so stay tuned for more fun!

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Go Autobahn

Thanks. I have heard from at least 3 people who are taking delivery of their 335is Coupe's this week, and I've been asking all of them to post their own driving impressions on this thread, so stay tuned for more fun!

Excellent! They should make this a sticky!

[E92-Lighting]

nice review and thanks for the information

[bavarian19]

[GB///M]

Great write up! Awesome car congrats!

[Edward]

I held back from test driving any M3 when I was car shopping. It would be opening up a giant can of worms (wallet) for me.

That being said, I agree like 98% with your review about the 335is. I've had my DCT 335is for one week today and have logged 525 miles on it so far which is ridiculous considering that my office is 1.3 miles away from my home.

I can't speak to the effect of auto mode on the DCT since I paddle shift almost every single shift no matter how I am driving. Mainly because it's my only way to really have any connection and input with an automatic transmission and also to always vary the rpm's through break-in.

The practicality of the power in the 335is blows me away. My favorite is a rolling 2nd gear 35 mph to immediate gas pedal flooring. The turbos are in the sweet spot and the car just lurches forward and does not stop. At about 3800 rpms the exhaust makes a very loud waling noise and echos very loudly off city buildings. (Not the actual note of the exhaust, but the sudden difference in sound when you hit this power band is not unlike what you hear when an F430 is quietly cruising at 15 mph and suddenly gas is increased)
The shifts are lightning quick and the exhaust pops with unburnt fuel echoing out the mufflers when shifting up while keeping the gas pedal depressed. Downshifts are almost a perfect automatic rev-match with virtually no jerk at all. A deaf person would never know when you were downshifting as you slow to a stop. I also really enjoy the fact that the car will always shift down to 1 in any mode you are in as you reach a crawl or stop.
To keep the exhaust note unnoticeable, you have to be going about 1/4 throttle in any given gear.

Now for the part that I don't agree 100% with. The lag you speak about.
Only once did I feel massive lag in this car to the point where I thought I was going to get rear ended.
I was in stopped traffic on the 10 fwy heading to santa monica and decided I had enough. I see cars heading towards the exit ramp I was just able to slide into and I decide to point the car and mash the pedal down.
In these situations, immediate reaction from the car is crucial and that is not what I received. The car literally didn't move for some split seconds until it reached about 1500+ rpm. I think 1.5 seconds is a decent sized exaggeration because 1.5 seconds is a very long time in car speak. I'd say that it was more like a .7-.8 second delay before the car knew you were really wanting the damn thing to scoot fast.
As soon as the rpms made their way above 1500 and the car realized it was spraying max fuel and air into the cylinders, it came to life in a scary way and the tires kept skipping and breaking all the way until almost 4500 rpms (at which point I had to shift into second anyways to adhere to break-in).

Now with the sport button engaged, I have felt maybe twice, a similar lag from a standstill. The difference with sport button engaged and not engaged is almost exclusively noticed when the car is already in motion. Shift speeds are even shorter and the car seems to have more pulling power right at the immediate rpm range of the next shift up. In other words, if you shifted from 2nd to 3rd, 3rd would immediately pick up as hard as second did at the highest rpm it was at before upshift.
Also, with sport on, the responsiveness of the throttle is considerably quicker when hitting the gas suddenly from a roll or even just increasing gas pedal push from a mellow cruise speed.
I said in another thread, that I honestly think that the car is more predictable and evokes a smoother feeling when the sport button is on.

The trickiest rpm range/gear I have consistently experienced is when getting into second at a low speed where the rpm is pretty low. When I shift into second at a low speed or try to take off hard while already being in second (at low rpm), I experience a similar weird lag as the standstill full throttle launch. However, because the pulling power that comes next immediately is following a brief lag, the car's speed seems to overcompensate and feels more dramatic than in normal situations. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that these are the only times that you will experience that full 332 ft-lbs torque from the earliest available point in the rpm range.

To sum it up on my long winded side, the lag is there, but I really doubt that it is actually as as time consuming as saying "one mississippi two...mi....."

Great choice on the M by the way OP!!! I found it hilarious and kind of refreshing that you didn't even seem to care at all what color the car was. For me it was sapphire black or I skateboard to work.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Edward

For me it was sapphire black or I skateboard to work.

Skateboarding ftw.

[Edward]

Originally Posted by Bavarian III

Skateboarding ftw.

I still keep one in my trunk.

[Go Autobahn]

Originally Posted by Edward

Now for the part that I don't agree 100% with. The lag you speak about.
Only once did I feel massive lag in this car to the point where I thought I was going to get rear ended.
I was in stopped traffic on the 10 fwy heading to santa monica and decided I had enough. I see cars heading towards the exit ramp I was just able to slide into and I decide to point the car and mash the pedal down.
In these situations, immediate reaction from the car is crucial and that is not what I received. The car literally didn't move for some split seconds until it reached about 1500+ rpm. I think 1.5 seconds is a decent sized exaggeration because 1.5 seconds is a very long time in car speak. I'd say that it was more like a .7-.8 second delay before the car knew you were really wanting the damn thing to scoot fast.

Thanks for posting a follow-up review. Even though I mentioned "two mississippi", I was just demonstrating my counting technique. I never actually got to two mississippi in my testing. The lag from a dead stop was always between 1 and 1.5 seconds, with the sport button on, and the stick in sport mode as well. I can certainly accept that there might be variation from car to car, though.

[Edward]

Originally Posted by Go Autobahn

Thanks for posting a follow-up review. Even though I mentioned "two mississippi", I was just demonstrating my counting technique. I never actually got to two mississippi in my testing. The lag from a dead stop was always between 1 and 1.5 seconds, with the sport button on, and the stick in sport mode as well. I can certainly accept that there might be variation from car to car, though.

oh I didn't actually recall you mentioning that counting method too. I thought I was bringing that up out of the blue.