[Max_!]

Originally Posted by inabis

Max_! in all honesty you are titled to your opinion. It's obvious that you don't like rap and that's just fine...

Oh, but there are a few titles that I do like on some level, especially if I don't look at the clips, but in general rap music doesn't sound good (as in harmonious), the lyrics - if you can call them that - are more offensive than I am and/or repetitive and lack insight. The technical quality of the music and recordings is also quite horrific.

I think rap music on the whole is an abomination, the few pearls notwithstanding.

Originally Posted by inabis

but not all rappers are finger-snapping, dance making clowns. There are rappers out there who rap about current events and and convey positive messages through their music which brings me to me to my next point to say that your comment was ignorant as hell.

I have to admit some trolling. But the strength of my words was chosen in light of the topic.

Originally Posted by inabis

You're making an assumption that all I listen to is rap, which is not the case. There are a lot of good singers/bands out there who may sound "good" live but they will never be on the same caliber of their cd. Linkin Park, U2, Oasis, Coldplay and even people who everyone knows can sing (i.e. Christina Aguilera) don't sound the same live. (I've never seen Christina live but I've seen her performances on TV same thing though). The only group that I've heard many people agree are better live is KISS and no I don't listen to them so I'm taking other people's word. Judging on their success I'd say they must have been pretty damn good.

I assumed you listened to more than just rap.

Recorded music is like a picture of a painting.

Sure, you can photoshop it to look better, but that doesn't make the picture more valuable than the painting.

Likewise, running something through the autotune doesn't add value to the performance.

You can put out a technically prefect recording nowadays (not that that happens a lot) and I can appreciate that, but it's just not the same as the real thing.

Originally Posted by inabis

It's funny I was having this same conversation with someone last week who was saying that techno wasn't real music....lmao...I guess it's all about your point of view...classical is some good stuff, I study best with it in the background...I like music from movie soundtracks as well, Danny Elfman makes some damn good music

Techno is music by virtue of the sung lyrics. But the quality of some of that stuff is possibly even worse than rap - I've seen techno/trance CDs with clipped waveforms!

[hks786]

Originally Posted by SE3P_to_E90

Pac and Game -- they look like legitimate rappers... just my 0.02

+1

you've got taste.

Here's a funny impression Aries does of Jay-Z, LL & Snoop. The 2nd one is his Tyson impression - must see!

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by renegade

how would you know?? this statement just proves you talking out your ass...Jay-z alongside his two business partners went from rapping to immediately starting an independent label (rocafella) before getting major distribution with first Pay Day records and eventually Def Jam records..You telling me they had financial planners, advisors, investment managers, etc... when he was successfully running an independent label as a regional star on the east coast in the mid 90's..LMAO

Seriously!

Jay-Z doesn't even write his lyrics on paper. He thinks about lines in his head and never writes them down. He's been doing that since he came out in the music industry. He can record multiple songs in one day.

Jay-Z is worth over $330 million and he made that much in less than 15 years.

He is tied with Elvis to have the most number 1 album releases in history.

Let's see the average person try and do that.


He didn't come from an educated family, he never went to college nor did he have much start-up money to open his own recording label.

The man is a fucking genius and yet people want to come up with 1 million and 1 reasons why he's not that great.

[Expired]

Originally Posted by Los Angeles

The day they come up with their own beats?

They've been coming up with their own beats for many years.

Timbaland, The Neptunes, Pharell, Dr. Dre and Scott Storch all produce music from scratch.

They all have many hits and classic songs.

Only person that I've listened to that comes up with his own quality beats is Timbaland. Haven't listened to the others you listed. Fact is that 90% of rappers don't come up with their own beats, and if they do, they are terrible.

Originally Posted by renegade

how would you know?? this statement just proves you talking out your ass...Jay-z alongside his two business partners went from rapping to immediately starting an independent label (rocafella) before getting major distribution with first Pay Day records and eventually Def Jam records..You telling me they had financial planners, advisors, investment managers, etc... when he was successfully running an independent label as a regional star on the east coast in the mid 90's..LMAO

I'm starting to think that every biased person in this thread, that is nothing but pro rap, is speaking out of their ass.
Judging from the wiki quote below, do you seriously think that is when he made most of his money?? Running a beat down 'record label', if you want to call it that..
People seem so caught up in defending rap, and rappers, that they don't see the big picture.. Maybe people just want to think that their idols did everything on their own..
I'm sure that after Jay-Z actually made some money, he had financial advisor's. Fact is that you cant be a millionaire in the entertainment industry and not have one.

Originally Posted by inabis

from Wiki:

Attempting to secure a record deal for Jay-Z, after being denied by several labels, they began pressing Jay's records, selling them out of their trunks and requesting time on mix radio; their record label was called Roc-A-Fella Records

In 1999, Damon Dash, Kareem "Biggs" Burke & Jay-Z launched the Rocawear clothing label. Since its launch Rocawear has announced annual sales of over $700 million.

In 2002 Roc-A-Fella Records announced they will be taking over US distribution rights for the Scottish, Armadale vodka, from the previous owner William Grant & Sons.

Trust me, when Rocawear came out everyone trying to get their hands on it. Sean John had started a year earlier and trust me, no one ever thought that if these guys sold clothing anyone would buy it.

beat me to it.. Just because you call something 'Roc-A-Fella Records' doesn't mean it was a record label.. If I read correctly they were just selling cd's out of the back of their trunks, any person on the street can do that.. I'm sure the quality wasn't great either..

Originally Posted by Los Angeles

Seriously!

Jay-Z doesn't even write his lyrics on paper. He thinks about lines in his head and never writes them down. He's been doing that since he came out in the music industry. He can record multiple songs in one day.

Jay-Z is worth over $330 million and he made that much in less than 15 years.

He is tied with Elvis to have the most number 1 album releases in history.

Let's see the average person try and do that.


He didn't come from an educated family, he never went to college nor did he have much start-up money to open his own recording label.

The man is a fucking genius and yet people want to come up with 1 million and 1 reasons why he's not that great.

Maybe people want to come up with a million reasons why he is so 'great'..
I don't see how anything you have listed so far makes him great..

How does good memorization make someone great?? He probably tells the media that to make himself seem talented, and actually writes them down and works on them when nobody is around. (Not even sure how you got this info)
I'm not sure how album releases are judged either, but.. I'm sure that if I released an album whenever nobody other than a no-name band did.. My album would be number 1 as well.. -___-

-Nathan

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by Expired

I'm starting to think that every biased person in this thread, that is nothing but pro rap, is speaking out of their ass.

-Nathan

This attitude pretty much sums up your biased opinion.

[Expired]

Originally Posted by Los Angeles

This attitude pretty much sums up your biased opinion.

Seriously?? What is my attitude towards rap, and what is my bias??
It seems like every time someone neutral makes a negative comment about rap, all you can do is call them 'ignorant' or try and flame them.

-Nathan

[Cadillac Johnson]

Originally Posted by Expired

I'm sure that if I released an album whenever nobody other than a no-name band did.. My album would be number 1 as well.. -___-

When should we expect your release?

[Max_!]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

When should we expect your release?

Say I make a rap single and promote and sell it online (not give it away, sell it for $0.99 or something). How many copies does it need to sell before you agree that dumb talentless ignorant fucks like me can be popular rap artists?

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by Max_!

Say I make a rap single and promote and sell it online (not give it away, sell it for $0.99 or something). How many copies does it need to sell before you agree that dumb talentless ignorant fucks like me can be popular rap artists?

You're saying all rappers are dumb ignorant fucks?

You're sounding like one yourself.

[renegade]

Originally Posted by Expired

Only person that I've listened to that comes up with his own quality beats is Timbaland. Haven't listened to the others you listed. Fact is that 90% of rappers don't come up with their own beats, and if they do, they are terrible.
-Nathan

You admit you haven't listened to any of the other producers listed to strengthen any counterpoint to his argument and yet you even continue in b.s. as you come to the conclusion 90% of rappers don't come up with their own beats and already critique them as terrible - LOL are you serious?? it's obvious you don't like rap - fine..but don't critique it when you don't know enough about it to speak on.

Originally Posted by Expired

I'm starting to think that every biased person in this thread, that is nothing but pro rap, is speaking out of their ass.
Judging from the wiki quote below, do you seriously think that is when he made most of his money?? Running a beat down 'record label', if you want to call it that..
People seem so caught up in defending rap, and rappers, that they don't see the big picture.. Maybe people just want to think that their idols did everything on their own..
I'm sure that after Jay-Z actually made some money, he had financial advisor's. Fact is that you cant be a millionaire in the entertainment industry and not have one.
-Nathan

The original position of the poster as I understand it is that Jay-z never had the intellectual ability or business savvy to make money on his own. That is just completely false based on the fact that he ran a successful independent record label (which wasn't 'beat down' to use your own words) before acquiring a major distributor from a major label. Do you really think the Universal/Polygram company would go into a multi million dollar business venture (not just a record signing - jay-z signed a distribution contract not just a roster spot) with some guys who were just running a 'beat down' label. LOL

Originally Posted by Expired

beat me to it.. Just because you call something 'Roc-A-Fella Records' doesn't mean it was a record label.. If I read correctly they were just selling cd's out of the back of their trunks, any person on the street can do that.. I'm sure the quality wasn't great either..
-Nathan

Again, you're speaking with no knowledge of what you're talking about. Roc-a-fella records was a legitimate label before major distribution. They didn't just sell stuff out their trunk but had pressed vinyl's with logo's, music videos (In My Lifetime, Dead Presidents, etc.) and I can vouch because I was intern at Def Jam when they were making there way up to signing with the label.

Originally Posted by Expired

Maybe people want to come up with a million reasons why he is so 'great'..
I don't see how anything you have listed so far makes him great..
-Nathan

Personally, I feel the same way, I don't care to list him as 'great' but he's definitely an influential rapper I'm not gonna just let you guys bash hip hop with no knowlege of it.

Originally Posted by Expired

How does good memorization make someone great?? He probably tells the media that to make himself seem talented, and actually writes them down and works on them when nobody is around. (Not even sure how you got this info)
I'm not sure how album releases are judged either, but.. I'm sure that if I released an album whenever nobody other than a no-name band did.. My album would be number 1 as well.. -___-
-Nathan

He's been recorded on an interview with 60 minutes, the movie Fade to Black, and vouched by numerous people within the music industry as to his process of recording without writing so if you don't want to believe that's cool. And his album the blueprint was released on 9/11/01 and still debuted at #1 selling over 426,000 copies...if that doesn't prove how much of a major artist he is your just lost

[younghov85]

Originally Posted by Expired

Only person that I've listened to that comes up with his own quality beats is Timbaland. Haven't listened to the others you listed. Fact is that 90% of rappers don't come up with their own beats, and if they do, they are terrible.


I'm starting to think that every biased person in this thread, that is nothing but pro rap, is speaking out of their ass.
Judging from the wiki quote below, do you seriously think that is when he made most of his money?? Running a beat down 'record label', if you want to call it that..
People seem so caught up in defending rap, and rappers, that they don't see the big picture.. Maybe people just want to think that their idols did everything on their own..
I'm sure that after Jay-Z actually made some money, he had financial advisor's. Fact is that you cant be a millionaire in the entertainment industry and not have one.


beat me to it.. Just because you call something 'Roc-A-Fella Records' doesn't mean it was a record label.. If I read correctly they were just selling cd's out of the back of their trunks, any person on the street can do that.. I'm sure the quality wasn't great either..



Maybe people want to come up with a million reasons why he is so 'great'..
I don't see how anything you have listed so far makes him great..

How does good memorization make someone great?? He probably tells the media that to make himself seem talented, and actually writes them down and works on them when nobody is around. (Not even sure how you got this info)
I'm not sure how album releases are judged either, but.. I'm sure that if I released an album whenever nobody other than a no-name band did.. My album would be number 1 as well.. -___-

-Nathan

Always trying to find a reason to bring a brother down. Just admit he is talented. Damn. Statements like the one you just wrote is a perfect example why our society is as f'd up as it is.

[Max_!]

Originally Posted by Los Angeles

You're saying all rappers are dumb ignorant fucks?

No, that's not what I wrote. Scroll up and read again.

Originally Posted by Los Angeles

You're sounding like one yourself.

Yes, that's exactly what I wrote: I am a dumb ignorant fuck.

[Expired]

lol.. Am I seriously going to have to come back to this thread and continue to list facts?
It seems like all of you 'rap fanboys' are closed minded.

Originally Posted by renegade

You admit you haven't listened to any of the other producers listed to strengthen any counterpoint to his argument and yet you even continue in b.s. as you come to the conclusion 90% of rappers don't come up with their own beats and already critique them as terrible - LOL are you serious?? it's obvious you don't like rap - fine..but don't critique it when you don't know enough about it to speak on.


The original position of the poster as I understand it is that Jay-z never had the intellectual ability or business savvy to make money on his own. That is just completely false based on the fact that he ran a successful independent record label (which wasn't 'beat down' to use your own words) before acquiring a major distributor from a major label. Do you really think the Universal/Polygram company would go into a multi million dollar business venture (not just a record signing - jay-z signed a distribution contract not just a roster spot) with some guys who were just running a 'beat down' label. LOL


Again, you're speaking with no knowledge of what you're talking about. Roc-a-fella records was a legitimate label before major distribution. They didn't just sell stuff out their trunk but had pressed vinyl's with logo's, music videos (In My Lifetime, Dead Presidents, etc.) and I can vouch because I was intern at Def Jam when they were making there way up to signing with the label.


Personally, I feel the same way, I don't care to list him as 'great' but he's definitely an influential rapper I'm not gonna just let you guys bash hip hop with no knowlege of it.


He's been recorded on an interview with 60 minutes, the movie Fade to Black, and vouched by numerous people within the music industry as to his process of recording without writing so if you don't want to believe that's cool. And his album the blueprint was released on 9/11/01 and still debuted at #1 selling over 426,000 copies...if that doesn't prove how much of a major artist he is your just lost

Yes. I stated out of all the rappers I have listened to, Timbaland is the only one that comes up with his own quality beats. That happens to be a lot of rappers, because I have a lot of friends that listen to nothing but rap.
Did I ever list a site that had statistics on rap saying that 90% of rappers don't produce their own beats?? No, I'm giving you a guesstimate from my experiences. I'm sure that all my friends that listen to rap will agree on that percentage. why?? because they see rap for what it is, and know how it is produced. Yes, a lot of that 90% that attempt to make their own beats are terrible at it. Yes, there are only a few that make great beats out of that 10%.
Don't assume that people don't know as much about rap as you do, just because you are such a big fan of it.

Link to quote below.

According to FMQB "Universal Music's Island Def Jam label has officially bought out Jay-Z's successful Roc-A-Fella Records, purchasing the 50% it did not already own from Jay, Damon Dash, and Kareem "Biggs" Burke. The New York Post reports that Universal paid just under $10 million for the rap label, whose roster includes yesterday's leading Grammy nominee Kanye West. Roc-A-Fella will live on as an imprint label within IDJMG, which had purchased the first 50% of its stake in the label back in 1997 for $1.5 million.

They began pressing Jay's records, selling them out of their trunks and requesting time on mix radio; their record label was called Roc-A-Fella Records.

December 2004 brought about the complete buyout of the Roc-A-Fella label by Island Def Jam Records, who previously owned 50% of the label.

Roc-A-Fella records was formed in '95. Universal purchased 50% of the 'company' in '97 for $1.5 Million. Why?? Good business. With 50% ownership of the record label, they can have a say in most of the decisions, thus any chance of competition with them is slim. They also get a good chunk of the revenue. $1.5 is chump change for Universal, it benefited them more to go ahead and end any chance of competition then.
(I'm sure there was a lot of growth in those two years, for Universal to buy 50% of Roc-A-Fella. If you start out selling cd's out of your trunk, you are a beat down record label.)
Buying a company that is supposedly worth $300 mill for $10 mill in 2004, with Kanye West on the roster, and right after he received 10 Grammy nominations?? You would have to be an idiot to take that deal, and an idiot to not take it. Jay-Z being the former of the two.


So because I can make 500 Cd's, print out a logo on each, easily make T-shirt's with logo's, and successfully sell them on the street. My 'record label' eXp Records would be considered successful and legitimate? I couldn't find either of those videos, but im sure that me and two of my friends that were in video tech could produce music videos of almost the same quality if not better, depending on the budget. (Considering that one of them has made several short films) I'm sure that we could even get 3 of my friends bands, produce cd's of higher quality than Roc-A-Fella, and promote the shit out of them to be a more successful 'record label'.
lol.. Now that I think about it, those 3 bands have more talent than most of the rappers out there. One happens to rap while producing his own beats, another is instrumental, another is indie/rock. Another plus is that they all sound great LIVE!!!!


Not saying I didn't believe, just skeptical and wanting proof.
In September of 2001, Jay-Z's only other release competition that was even close to the rap industry was Damian Marley.
Album Releases of 2001
I'm confused as to how/why you think releasing an album on the day 9/11 happened and still being able to sell 426,500 copies makes someone a great artist.. (We are in fact talking about how rappers are 'great artists', and not how large their fan base is.) Maybe it just proves that people who listen to rap could care less about 9/11, and went out and bought the cd anyway?? Either way he had no competition in the rap/hip hop category.

Originally Posted by younghov85

Always trying to find a reason to bring a brother down. Just admit he is talented. Damn. Statements like the one you just wrote is a perfect example why our society is as f'd up as it is.

Seriously?? This sounds all too familiar, like the 'It's because I'm black, isn't it?!?!' phrase I always heard in school. Whenever some black kid decides to be loud in class, or cuss several times, he thinks that him being punished is because he is black.
Always trying to find a reason to blame your problems/idiocy on others. -The 'Cracker'
This discussion isn't about what color you are. You could be invisible and produce rap for all I care. So no, I'm not trying to bring a 'brother' down.

Give me proof he is talented and I will admit that he is. That is just like me telling you to admit that I am right, without even saying another word to back up my beliefs. Elaborate YoungHOV, anyone can spit out words.

Start attacking the argument/idea instead of trying to attack the person. You wont be able to win an argument by simply stating that someone is 'ignorant'.

-Nathan

[BaLLzZz]

Originally Posted by Expired

Give me proof he is talented and I will admit that he is. That is just like me telling you to admit that I am right, without even saying another word to back up my beliefs. Elaborate YoungHOV, anyone can spit out words.

-Nathan

Proof? I dont understand what proof there really is. Rap is an art just like painting or somethin else artistic. There is no true proof of what one feels about "art". The greatest musician has great music and deep roots but one might hate his music and therefore that person dislikes the "best ever". There's proof in numbers and there's proof in history. But no one can tell you HEEY go like Jigga and listen to him(other then marketing).

[renegade]

Expired it's obvious you aren't gonna budge from your position and neither am I because we could go all day back and forth quoting articles, stats, etc. but it's the internet and I'm sure you got better things to do as do I. So I'm gonna keep playing hip hop and you keep listening to whatever it is you do.

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by renegade

Expired it's obvious you aren't gonna budge from your position and neither am I because we could go all day back and forth quoting articles, stats, etc. but it's the internet and I'm sure you got better things to do as do I. So I'm gonna keep playing hip hop and you keep listening to whatever it is you do.

+1.

[Expired]

I never once read a post where you quoted an article or stats supporting rap.

I listen to everything. Yes, even rap/hip hop.
I was starting to get tired of having to prove to each one of you how talentless most rap artists are.

-Nathan

[Cadillac Johnson]

Originally Posted by Max_!

Say I make a rap single and promote and sell it online (not give it away, sell it for $0.99 or something). How many copies does it need to sell before you agree that dumb talentless ignorant fucks like me can be popular rap artists?

When did I disagree with that?

"Dumb, talentless, ignorant fucks" are abundant in rap music.

However, releasing multiple #1 albums is not something "dumb, talentless, ignorant fucks" can do.

Regardless of whether or not you like rap music, has nothing to do with the fact that Jay-z is a talented artist, and is a great business man.

[Max_!]

> However, releasing multiple #1 albums is not something "dumb, talentless, ignorant fucks" can do.

Well, I've put 2K where my mouth is. I've made a single and I'm selling it online through MSPs. It's out there now. Sold 3 copies so far!

Wrote some lyrics about blinged hos that like to suck it if you drive an expensive car and stuff, found a dumbass to rap them for me for free (poor sob thinks it's his big break) sampled/stole together a soundtrack and mixed/compressed it to a ludicrous average of -5dB with clipping bass.

Couldn't get it over my heart to make something totally dreadful so I paid a girl with a great voice 1500EUR to put down a vocal track (about sucking guys in expensive cars)

Studio time was free 'cause I own it.

I was going to tell you where to find it but then realised word travels fast on the internet and it would probably hurt sales if word got round I think anyone that buys it is a total dumbass.

[Expired]

Originally Posted by Max_!

> However, releasing multiple #1 albums is not something "dumb, talentless, ignorant fucks" can do.

Well, I've put 2K where my mouth is. I've made a single and I'm selling it online through MSPs. It's out there now. Sold 3 copies so far!

Wrote some lyrics about blinged hos that like to suck it if you drive an expensive car and stuff, found a dumbass to rap them for me for free (poor sob thinks it's his big break) sampled/stole together a soundtrack and mixed/compressed it to a ludicrous average of -5dB with clipping bass.

Couldn't get it over my heart to make something totally dreadful so I paid a girl with a great voice 1500EUR to put down a vocal track (about sucking guys in expensive cars)

Studio time was free 'cause I own it.

I was going to tell you where to find it but then realised word travels fast on the internet and it would probably hurt sales if word got round I think anyone that buys it is a total dumbass.

danggg, give me the link!!! I wanna listen to it.
Did the guy sound pretty good?

-Nathan