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      09-14-2008, 09:56 AM   #89
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Still not sure which one. 135i or Camaro SS/RS LS3 manual
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      10-04-2008, 08:51 AM   #90
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Still not sure which one. 135i or Camaro SS/RS LS3 manual
Seriously - as much as I love my 135i it's not a Camaro - the Camaro styling is second to none in it's class. The sound will be better. The performance straight-line the same if not better. I'd like both!



Think of it this way - if we had a meet with 1-series cars and invited a friend who had a new Camaro SS we'd all be gawking at his ride.

In a year or so it may change as they will outnumber our cars 10:1 or whatever.
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      10-04-2008, 03:42 PM   #91
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GM is also praying it sells 10 times as many. BMW is not their competition, Ford is. Their huge problem now is whether their target demographic (males 18-28) will be able to get financing. This thing has to recoup some serious money.
I don't care for the squashed look.
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      10-04-2008, 03:57 PM   #92
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ford may be there competition but I almost skipped on a 135i to get a camaro

for me it is competition
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      10-04-2008, 04:01 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mega View Post
ford may be there competition but I almost skipped on a 135i to get a camaro

for me it is competition


I agree. I've seen a LOT of posts where people are holding off on buying other cars in this price range (EVO, STI, 135i, Vette, ect)until they can drive the Camaro.

People, myself included, rarely shop within a demographic such as "European" or "AWD hatch". They pick a price point and consider lots of different cars around it. I drove Vettes, Caymans, Evos, G35s, looked at a G8, all sorts of stuff before ordering a 135i.
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      10-04-2008, 04:02 PM   #94
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There's more to a car than straight-line acceleration.

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No other car drives like a BMW. They are famous around the world for the way they drive. No Chevrolet will even come close to the same feel. Often imitated never duplicated. Not JMHO.
Yeah, I don't get it. All this talk because it beats the 135i on one driving parameter. I know how American cars feel to drive. It's not for me. My 135i feels great to drive. I'd like tighter suspension over dips, but otherwise, it's just right.
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      10-04-2008, 04:10 PM   #95
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Yeah, I don't get it. All this talk because it beats the 135i on one driving parameter. I know how American cars feel to drive. It's not for me. My 135i feels great to drive. I'd like tighter suspension over dips, but otherwise, it's just right.


It may not feel like a BMW, but you're stretching to say that you know how it's going to feel before anyone's even driven one. You do realize that GM has been wasting the competition in the handling department lately right?

The new CTS-V is a MONSTER on the track, and the Cobalt SS has had it's way with everything in it's size class, including the EVO and 135i, and it's a FWD!

The Camaro has already been clocked on the 'Ring turning pretty impressive times for a car with the drag coefficient of a UPS truck. Don't discount this thing on a road course with lower top speeds.
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      10-04-2008, 04:28 PM   #96
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drive a g8 gt it's gonna feel a lot like that, same platform
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      10-05-2008, 09:32 AM   #97
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Sure, my 30+ years of driving experience...

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Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
It may not feel like a BMW, but you're stretching to say that you know how it's going to feel before anyone's even driven one. You do realize that GM has been wasting the competition in the handling department lately right?

The new CTS-V is a MONSTER on the track, and the Cobalt SS has had it's way with everything in it's size class, including the EVO and 135i, and it's a FWD!

The Camaro has already been clocked on the 'Ring turning pretty impressive times for a car with the drag coefficient of a UPS truck. Don't discount this thing on a road course with lower top speeds.
...may be wrong in this case. But in my 30+ years of driving experience, BMWs have always felt better -- to me -- than any American car I have ever driven. And I can certainly say that Ford has ruined the driving characteristics of Volvos. Ugh.

It's subjective, of course. And I'm sure there are people who will prefer the Camaro. I'm just not likely to be one of them no matter what GM has done to its suspension. But that's not the point. The point is that one single parameter is a pretty limited way to evaluate a driving experience. The 135 accelerates faster than a Porsche Cayman. Does anyone think that it's more of a driver's car? That it feels better? That it's more composed? Please.
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      10-05-2008, 09:36 AM   #98
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sounds like you hate gm and no matter what the camaro feels like you wont like it
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      10-05-2008, 09:59 AM   #99
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I'm betting that by the end of next year they're throwing cash on the hood of all of them except the SRTs.
Can anyone say "Prowler" ?
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      10-05-2008, 10:39 AM   #100
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...may be wrong in this case. But in my 30+ years of driving experience, BMWs have always felt better -- to me -- than any American car I have ever driven. And I can certainly say that Ford has ruined the driving characteristics of Volvos. Ugh.

It's subjective, of course. And I'm sure there are people who will prefer the Camaro. I'm just not likely to be one of them no matter what GM has done to its suspension. But that's not the point. The point is that one single parameter is a pretty limited way to evaluate a driving experience. The 135 accelerates faster than a Porsche Cayman. Does anyone think that it's more of a driver's car? That it feels better? That it's more composed? Please.

We're not talking about 'one single parameter", we're talking about nearly EVERYTHING except feel, which is an unknown at this point. "Feel" is something that's impossible to measure, and honestly it sounds like an excuse when it's brought up in a discussion about performance.

FYI, I driven a Cayman and I think a person is out of their fucking mind for paying that kind of money for them. This business about it being more of a driver's car is simply an excuse to attempt to justify it's absurd price tag. A Vette costs less money and will absolutely slaughter a Cayman on the track. On top of that the interior is crap for a car in that price range, and you have to have a lift to perform even basic service.
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      10-05-2008, 08:19 PM   #101
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No, not at all.

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Originally Posted by mega View Post
sounds like you hate gm and no matter what the camaro feels like you wont like it
I simply doubt that GM (or Ford) will ever make a car I like the feel of. It's a subjective thing. Some people like the American car ride, some people don't. Some people prefer the way Japanese cars feel. Some people prefer the way a Mercedes-Benz handles.

My point is that straight-line acceleration is one very limited parameter in the whole driving experience. A BMW just feels right to me.
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      10-05-2008, 08:26 PM   #102
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I couldn't care less what you think about "feel."

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Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
We're not talking about 'one single parameter", we're talking about nearly EVERYTHING except feel, which is an unknown at this point. "Feel" is something that's impossible to measure, and honestly it sounds like an excuse when it's brought up in a discussion about performance.

FYI, I driven a Cayman and I think a person is out of their fucking mind for paying that kind of money for them. This business about it being more of a driver's car is simply an excuse to attempt to justify it's absurd price tag. A Vette costs less money and will absolutely slaughter a Cayman on the track. On top of that the interior is crap for a car in that price range, and you have to have a lift to perform even basic service.
The way a car feels is far from an "excuse," as you put it. Car companies spend an enormous amount of money developing it. And they offer quite different experiences. And I'm sure that I could have a Skoda modified to accelerate faster than a Camaro OR a 135. It wouldn't make it a better car.

I think the Cayman is overpriced, too. Wildly so. But that's not relevant to what I was saying. Vette vs Cayman on the track? I think it depends on the track.
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      10-05-2008, 09:02 PM   #103
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The Camaro is going to be a mass market vehicle. It's not going to be a Porsche or BMW. It's going to be a Chevy. If you want an inexpensive thrill ride - this might be it (you'll have to wait and see what actually gets produced). It won't remind you of or emulate a Formula 1 car. It may be the best muscle car GM ever makes, but not being a teenager anymore, I'm not too interested.
There was a joke at Bimmerfest - Chevy has announced that it will give everyone who buys a Camaro a free mullet.
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      10-05-2008, 09:41 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
FYI, I driven a Cayman and I think a person is out of their fucking mind for paying that kind of money for them. This business about it being more of a driver's car is simply an excuse to attempt to justify it's absurd price tag. A Vette costs less money and will absolutely slaughter a Cayman on the track. On top of that the interior is crap for a car in that price range, and you have to have a lift to perform even basic service.

Did you drive the Cayman S or the normal one?
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      10-06-2008, 12:07 AM   #105
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GO HERE THERES THE 2010 CAMARO, GT-R AND TONS MORE!
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...383#post258383
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      10-06-2008, 07:02 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethchan View Post
I simply doubt that GM (or Ford) will ever make a car I like the feel of. It's a subjective thing. Some people like the American car ride, some people don't. Some people prefer the way Japanese cars feel. Some people prefer the way a Mercedes-Benz handles.

My point is that straight-line acceleration is one very limited parameter in the whole driving experience. A BMW just feels right to me.
try this, go test drive a 5 series, then go test drive a g8 gt

you'll be surprised, gm finally brought the holden cars to the use, people have been begging for that for quite some time
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      10-06-2008, 08:11 AM   #107
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Interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mega View Post
try this, go test drive a 5 series, then go test drive a g8 gt

you'll be surprised, gm finally brought the holden cars to the use, people have been begging for that for quite some time
:w00t:Hadn't heard that. Will wonders never cease?
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      10-06-2008, 08:55 AM   #108
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Did you drive the Cayman S or the normal one?

Normal one. Every S they had on the lot was stickered at near $70k. For that kind of money you're talking about Z06 or GT-R range, and I'd take either over a Cayman in a second. Their pricing is totally unjustified.
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      10-06-2008, 09:30 AM   #109
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Quote:
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Normal one. Every S they had on the lot was stickered at near $70k. For that kind of money you're talking about Z06 or GT-R range, and I'd take either over a Cayman in a second. Their pricing is totally unjustified.
IMO the whole Boxter and Cayman line should be priced at the 35-40k range...

even the 911s are way out of line.... i guess Porsche hasn't realized this yet...
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      10-06-2008, 10:34 AM   #110
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Still not sure which one. 135i or Camaro SS/RS LS3 manual

LOL .... I'm considering getting rid of the 135i for what you list above ...

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