R44 Performance
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-27-2014, 05:28 PM   #45
03///m3
First Lieutenant
45
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2007

iTrader: (1)

Is the F80 steering wheel larger in diameter than the E92? From pics it looks like it.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:31 PM   #46
Sparco
Private First Class
Sparco's Avatar
United_States
70
Rep
116
Posts

Drives: GT3 \ Future M2 Comp
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cape Coral, Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Nice weight on the M3. So including carbon ceramics and no fuel, 3,562 pounds huh?

Those options probably add a solid 150-180 pounds over base (DCT, Adaptive, Leather, Exec Package, Lighting Package, Drivers assist package).

So I'm looking at a U.S. spec M3 (sedan) with a mostly empty fuel tank and probably an option free weight south of 3400 pounds.

That's just my guess, but that's pretty nice.

A dry M4 with carbon ceramics and no other options, and maybe euro-spec (i.e. manual seats) and without a owners manual and tire inflating kit or tool kit is probably right around 3300 pounds then

Lol, that's the combo!!!

So with a 6 speed, ceramics, leather, and 19s care to throw out a possible weight??
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:31 PM   #47
GOLFFRR
GOLFFRR's Avatar
10717
Rep
27,537
Posts

Drives: GOLFFRR cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: we sell BMWs to "ALL" US states

iTrader: (4)

Awesome!!
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL OUR GUY KOTE FIRST!
Kote M Sales:Kotem@bmwofcamarillo.com Cell:805-368-9101
vipfinance@bmwofcamarillo.com for warranties!
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:31 PM   #48
humpday
Private First Class
33
Rep
194
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Can someone explain the conclusion that BMW underrated HP? How is "whp" different from "hp", which I though was 425 based on BMWs numbers?
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:37 PM   #49
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
616
Rep
10,854
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by humpday View Post
Can someone explain the conclusion that BMW underrated HP? How is "whp" different from "hp", which I though was 425 based on BMWs numbers?
OK, lots of folks way more knowlegeable than me on this, but it's simple:

Wheel Horse Power is what you get measured from a dyno that is actually powered by the driving wheels of the car.

Horse Power (and BHP) are measures of power taken directly from the engine (flywheel). WHP is expected to be about 10-12% less than HP because of inherent losses in the drivetrain.

So... 425 WHP translates to about 470 HP.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:37 PM   #50
Jockey
Brigadier General
Jockey's Avatar
3435
Rep
4,978
Posts

Drives: 992 C4S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by humpday View Post
Can someone explain the conclusion that BMW underrated HP? How is "whp" different from "hp", which I though was 425 based on BMWs numbers?
WHP (wheel horsepower) takes into account drivetrain losses (~10-15%) over crank hp (which is the number BMW states).

So if BMW says crank HP is 425 and we are seeing 425 WHP, you can do the math.


edit: and @stressdoc beat me to the punch

PS: Correct me if I'm wrong but is crank HP and BHP interchangeable? I'm fairly certain the mean the same thing.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:43 PM   #51
pfl
Second Lieutenant
113
Rep
214
Posts

Drives: Some slow cars
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Interesting how the car reacts to heat soak. Losing around 30whp 30wtq. Did the boost drop or just timing?
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:45 PM   #52
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
616
Rep
10,854
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
WHP (wheel horsepower) takes into account drivetrain losses (~10-15%) over crank hp (which is the number BMW states).

So if BMW says crank HP is 425 and we are seeing 425 WHP, you can do the math.


edit: and @stressdoc beat me to the punch

PS: Correct me if I'm wrong but is crank HP and BHP interchangeable? I'm fairly certain the mean the same thing.
BHP stands for BrakeHorsePower, a misleading term IMO. What it means is power from the engine without any losses to accessories or drivetrain. I.e., right at the crank without anything sucking off power.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:46 PM   #53
kitw
Colonel
kitw's Avatar
471
Rep
2,991
Posts

Drives: F91 M8, 991.2 GT3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Added Intake Air Temps (AIT) to Endurance mode dyno on Post #4:
[/URL]
Looks like there will be a use case for water wetter or an upgraded exchanger... that said, the exchanger will get more airflow on the street, assuming EAS doesn't have a full on wind tunnel.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:51 PM   #54
InspireSiR
First Lieutenant
120
Rep
374
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Not to beat a dead horse and I know it's the stock exhaust, but I'm still not feelin' the sound.

It's quiet, then gets louder, then starts to taper off again...all in the same gear.

Otherwise, the weight plus underrated motor make this a definite performance improvement over E9x models. My E92 with a full tank of gas came in at 3,524 pounds.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 05:53 PM   #55
325rider
Captain
United_States
36
Rep
826
Posts

Drives: '11 e90 M3 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Miami, Fl

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspireSiR View Post
Not to beat a dead horse and I know it's the stock exhaust, but I'm still not feelin' the sound.

It's quiet, then gets louder, then starts to taper off again...all in the same gear.

Otherwise, the weight plus underrated motor make this a definite performance improvement over E9x models. My E92 with a full tank of gas came in at 3,524 pounds.
Im still struggling to understand where there is anything north of a 100lbs weight savings....

I mean, comparing a stripper e9x m3 tha tis light to a f8x M3 with Carbon ceramics is whatever....
I wanna see a f8x stripper weight
__________________

Check out my YouTube Fitness Channel if your into that
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoz...XQVuG0se8cTpUQ
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:04 PM   #56
snaimpally
Major
United_States
136
Rep
1,192
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i MT
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335i  [0.00]
I just got the latest Motor Trend mag in the mail and the M3/M4 are on the cover. Very positive review, "the M3 and M4 are ... extremely focused and astonishingly fun to drive."
__________________
PTF Map, Pure Turbo Stage 1, GFB DV+, Mfactory LSD, AA FMIC, B12 Pro Kit, M3 FCA, AR DP and
Dynavin N6, Mosconi AS100.4, AS100.4, AS200.2, Micro Precision tweeters & woofers, Esotar2 1200
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:08 PM   #57
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
10,407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
...
So I'm looking at a U.S. spec M3 (sedan) with a mostly empty fuel tank and probably an option free weight south of 3400 pounds.

That's just my guess, but that's pretty nice.
Since you are obviously concerned with weight, and it sounds like the performance implications thereof, I ran a quick simulation for you.

In short, a loaded car with DCT significantly outperforms a stripper with MT (regardless of and small savings from CSiC brakes).

Let's say the difference is 217 lb even (not counting brakes) putting the lighter car with 90% fuel at 3400 lb even. Here are the results. The weight of M3 #2 on the right with M-DCT is exactly as posted here from the earlier post showing the scale weight, but adding fuel weight to get to 90% filled and including a 165 lb driver. The other, car #1 on the left is 217 lb lighter with MT. I am using 50 ms shift times for M-DCT and 300 ms shift time for the MT.



It is a significant besting, 0.7 seconds to 100, 0.2 and 2 mph for the 1/4 and 0.6 from 60-130. I realize this won't convince you to purchase the M-DCT, but she WILL be faster, period.

Note: Ignore the "M-DCT" and conflicting "MT" titles on car #1. It is 3400 lb with 90% fuel, without driver and has the correct shift times and transmission ratios for the MT car.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |

Last edited by swamp2; 06-27-2014 at 06:14 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:09 PM   #58
kitw
Colonel
kitw's Avatar
471
Rep
2,991
Posts

Drives: F91 M8, 991.2 GT3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspireSiR View Post
Not to beat a dead horse and I know it's the stock exhaust, but I'm still not feelin' the sound.

It's quiet, then gets louder, then starts to taper off again...all in the same gear.

Otherwise, the weight plus underrated motor make this a definite performance improvement over E9x models. My E92 with a full tank of gas came in at 3,524 pounds.
I wave the brown flag at you unless you did some serious weight savings.

My E90 M3 6MT with Akrapovic exhaust and half tank: 3600lbs

The DCT is heavier.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:14 PM   #59
Jockey
Brigadier General
Jockey's Avatar
3435
Rep
4,978
Posts

Drives: 992 C4S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
BHP stands for BrakeHorsePower, a misleading term IMO. What it means is power from the engine without any losses to accessories or drivetrain. I.e., right at the crank without anything sucking off power.
Right, so BHP is crank HP, just a different term.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:14 PM   #60
StealYourFace
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
260
Rep
1,794
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M 6mt, E36 M3
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Shakedown Street, Buffalo NY

iTrader: (1)

EAS is doing a great job of gathering data for the new car.

Can't wait to see a secondary cat delete in terms of sound and dyno.

And by the way, the exhaust sounds ALMOST like an NA 6 in a row. The sound isn't much off of an n52 with a PE.
__________________

Last edited by StealYourFace; 06-27-2014 at 06:24 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:14 PM   #61
sales@ESSTuning
sales@ESSTuning's Avatar
389
Rep
3,149
Posts

Drives: ESS M3 / M4
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (6)

Good stuff Tom
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:23 PM   #62
OverDriven
Second Lieutenant
7
Rep
296
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Does anyone know what the stock boost amount is on these cars?
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:27 PM   #63
SamS
Banned
United_States
866
Rep
6,248
Posts

Drives: Tesla M3 Perf + '18 X3 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOM3 View Post
Silver 19s look so much better.

Black ones looks like dirty silvers that's all.
Yepper.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:31 PM   #64
Sapper_M3
Captain
Sapper_M3's Avatar
United_States
48
Rep
611
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3, ZCP
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw
Quote:
Originally Posted by InspireSiR View Post
Not to beat a dead horse and I know it's the stock exhaust, but I'm still not feelin' the sound.

It's quiet, then gets louder, then starts to taper off again...all in the same gear.

Otherwise, the weight plus underrated motor make this a definite performance improvement over E9x models. My E92 with a full tank of gas came in at 3,524 pounds.
I wave the brown flag at you unless you did some serious weight savings.

My E90 M3 6MT with Akrapovic exhaust and half tank: 3600lbs

The DCT is heavier.
Meh his car seems pretty light, but I don't think it's brown flag worthy if he has a stripper.

I'm fairly well optioned (all the standard box checks minus premium sound) with a 6MT on my 2012 E92 M3, and I've weighed myself with topped off fluids (full tank of gas...hell I even topped off the windshield wiper fluid to be sure) at 3590 on a CAT scale. If you check out other threads on this forum these same figures have been reproduced by multiple other forum members.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:49 PM   #65
InspireSiR
First Lieutenant
120
Rep
374
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Correct, I guess it could technically be a stripper. Only options were comfort access and carbon leather trim.

This was before my Challenge Street X-Pipe and Eisenmann Race but after my 19" Volks. So I suspect I'd be under 3,500 now.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2014, 06:50 PM   #66
MrHarris
yodog
MrHarris's Avatar
United_States
196
Rep
5,026
Posts

Drives: '86 Corolla
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [10.00]
Looking awesome. Thanks for the weigh in Tom
__________________

2009 E92 M3 | Alpine White | Black Extended | Advan RS | Turner Test Pipes | Dinan Axle-Back | OETuning | Eibach Springs | UUC SSK | VRS Front Lip | VRS Type I Diffuser | Matte Black | RPi Scoops | MS Filter | Yokohama AD08 | F1 Pinnacle
Special Thanks: Gintani | OETuning | eAs
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
dyno, eas, macht schnell, spacers, weights

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST