[NewSong]

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

I hope they throw the book at you so you don't crash into me one day.

[kjrulz]

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

I hope they throw the book at you so you don't crash into me one day.

coming from the guy with the hooked up M....ok pal stick to the speed limit then....


that's right I'm evil!!!!

[maswastage]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

You speak as if you are a cop/judge. Are you a judge? Otherwise, I'm afraid your assertive dictation of safe driving style isn't worth much.

What makes the judge or the cop any more qualified to dictate what constitutes safe driving? Maybe it's the libertarian in me coming out...

But honestly, speed alone is almost never responsible for a crash. Weaving through traffic, following too closely, or driving without consideration for the weather, that is what causes accidents. And that is the kind of driving that needs to be punished with tickets. Speed limits are arbitrary and outdated, and their primary function is to collect $$$.

[ScotyH]

If I were treading on thin ice, I'd be walking pretty softly.

Clearly you show no respect for the rules. Not just once, but by your own admission, several times.

Suck it up buttercup.

[Inspired]

Originally Posted by maswastage

What makes the judge or the cop any more qualified to dictate what constitutes safe driving? Maybe it's the libertarian in me coming out...

But honestly, speed alone is almost never responsible for a crash. Weaving through traffic, following too closely, or driving without consideration for the weather, that is what causes accidents. And that is the kind of driving that needs to be punished with tickets. Speed limits are arbitrary and outdated, and their primary function is to collect $$$.

very well said. However, I really think it all depends on the driver and situation.

[MTV]

Originally Posted by kjrulz

No there really isn't. Did you not see how much faster I was going? How could speed alone not get me a ticket?

Also to newsong, I don't speed like I used to. Because of the accumulations of points in my earlier years I'm still paying for them. Thanks for the assumptions though....assholes.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by maswastage

What makes the judge or the cop any more qualified to dictate what constitutes safe driving? Maybe it's the libertarian in me coming out...

The fact that he is a judge or cop...

Are you really going to argue this? If you want to control it, go become a cop. Then you can be the 'decider'.

Originally Posted by maswastage

But honestly, speed alone is almost never responsible for a crash. Weaving through traffic, following too closely, or driving without consideration for the weather, that is what causes accidents. And that is the kind of driving that needs to be punished with tickets. Speed limits are arbitrary and outdated, and their primary function is to collect $$$.

I pretty much agree with this, but the true cause of accidents and crashes is not the topic of this thread. At least not yet.

[10M3MAN]

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

I hope they throw the book at you so you don't crash into me one day.

[maswastage]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

The fact that he is a judge or cop...

I pretty much agree with this, but the true cause of accidents and crashes is not the topic of this thread. At least not yet.

So...judges and cops are suddenly experts on automobiles and automotive safety? Puh-lease. Judges are experts in the law, and cops are experts in enforcing the law. That does not mean that the law (in this case, speed limits) is correct.

Research has shown that the less restrictions you place on motorists, the safer they drive. Case in point- unrestricted autobahn's have less accident's per vehicle than those with speed limits. Second case-in-point, the social experiment in....well crap, I forgot where it was, but essentially they removed all signs, speed limits, and stoplights from a busy city intersection and found that the traffic flow actually smoothed out and there were less crashes. I have to look it up again to see what the details were.

But it is waaay too politically incorrect to suggest that speed limits be updated or (gasp!) removed, because people have been brainwashed into thinking that speed kills and is the root of all evil on the motorway. So we're stuck with traffic laws and speed limits from 60 years ago.

This all relates to the topic at hand because what I'm saying is that the OP did not deserve to get a ticket, in this case.

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

I hope they throw the book at you so you don't crash into me one day.

I agree

I hope you get they take your license for at least a year.

Originally Posted by kjrulz

coming from the guy with the hooked up M....ok pal stick to the speed limit then....


that's right I'm evil!!!!

So because he has a "hooked up M" he therefore HAS to break the speed limit? He couldn't POSSIBLY stick under the speed limit on roads, and go faster on a track where it's allowed? You're assuming he has to break the law because he has a modified car, don't make assumptions, asshole.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by maswastage

Second case-in-point, the social experiment in....well crap, I forgot where it was, but essentially they removed all signs, speed limits, and stoplights from a busy city intersection and found that the traffic flow actually smoothed out and there were less crashes. I have to look it up again to see what the details were.

Some town in the Netherlands. Just saw it last week on the news. While it was an interesting piece, they failed to cover other reasons why the experiment resulted in a (marginally) lower accident rate. Things like a fairly homogenous population, better driver training, fewer adolescent drivers, a population with a generally higher level of education, etc all contribute. Such an experiment would never work in a place like Boston where you have an entirely different driver mentality.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by maswastage

So...judges and cops are suddenly experts on automobiles and automotive safety? Puh-lease. Judges are experts in the law, and cops are experts in enforcing the law. That does not mean that the law (in this case, speed limits) is correct.

Sorry, I think you were missing the point of my original comment. My point is, as right as you might be, or might think you are. It doesn't matter as you are a citizen, a 'nobody'. Just another voice bitching about getting a ticket that the law enforcement has to deal with.

Whether your right, wrong, expert, or layman doesn't matter. To everyone else but you, your just some guy spouting wishful conjecture in the form of ideals and how things 'should be'. Effectively of little significance since you don't actually hold the role of enforcer.

Originally Posted by maswastage

Research has shown that the less restrictions you place on motorists, the safer they drive. Case in point- unrestricted autobahn's have less accident's per vehicle than those with speed limits. Second case-in-point, the social experiment in....well crap, I forgot where it was, but essentially they removed all signs, speed limits, and stoplights from a busy city intersection and found that the traffic flow actually smoothed out and there were less crashes. I have to look it up again to see what the details were.

But it is waaay too politically incorrect to suggest that speed limits be updated or (gasp!) removed, because people have been brainwashed into thinking that speed kills and is the root of all evil on the motorway. So we're stuck with traffic laws and speed limits from 60 years ago.

Again, no where in any of my posts have I even begun to touch on the topic of what is or isn't actually considered safe. I have no opinion or opposition to your stance on that topic here in this thread.

Originally Posted by maswastage

This all relates to the topic at hand because what I'm saying is that the OP did not deserve to get a ticket, in this case.

This last statement of yours was pure conjecture. Unless I'm just missing something important here, in the form of you knowing the OP personally outside of these forums, I don't believe you can truly know if it was deserved or not. The OP didn't even provide a picture, movie, or any valid information of what went down or how he was truly driving. He was just at odds because his ticket toll has stacked up to the point of dispare.

Just for good measure, the OP isn't even complaining about getting the ticket. Let alone contesting its justification. It happened and now he is concerned with how he should handle it.

[maswastage]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Sorry, I think you were missing the point of my original comment. My point is, as right as you might be, or might think you are. It doesn't matter as you are a citizen, a 'nobody'. Just another voice bitching about getting a ticket that the law enforcement has to deal with.

Whether your right, wrong, expert, or layman doesn't matter. To everyone else but you, your just some guy spouting wishful conjecture in the form of ideals and how things 'should be'. Effectively of little significance since you don't actually hold the role of enforcer.

Ah, yes with that I can agree. My bitching alone won't change anything, but the combined bitching of the entire motoring population would. Unfortunately, as I already pointed out, it's an uphill, perhaps more accurately described as a vertical, battle to convince people that speed limits are archaic and something needs to be done to update the law.

(Which I never understood, because 90 of people are already driving above the speed limit, and yet when the issue is brought up they still preach that "you need to obey the speed limit")

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Some town in the Netherlands. Just saw it last week on the news. While it was an interesting piece, they failed to cover other reasons why the experiment resulted in a (marginally) lower accident rate. Things like a fairly homogenous population, better driver training, fewer adolescent drivers, a population with a generally higher level of education, etc all contribute. Such an experiment would never work in a place like Boston where you have an entirely different driver mentality.

Bolded, italicized, and underlined. I am absolutely in support of increasing the difficulty of obtaining a driver's license. This above all else would result in much fewer accidents, and a higher general level of safety.

[UltimateBMW]

Here is a article about how extensive a German driver's license is to get.

http://www.german-way.com/driving.html

This is understandable when you realize that a German driver’s license costs about $1500-2000, after a minimum of 25-45 hours of professional instruction plus 12 hours of theory, and such a license is good for life.

Written it seems in 1997, so things might of changed some. But I doubt it's gotten any easier.

[maswastage]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Bolded, italicized, and underlined. I am absolutely in support of increasing the difficulty of obtaining a driver's license. This above all else would result in much fewer accidents, and a higher general level of safety.

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Here is a article about how extensive a German driver's license is to get.

http://www.german-way.com/driving.html


Written it seems in 1997, so things might of changed some. But I doubt it's gotten any easier.

I can agree with that, too. Better driver education + revised/modernized speed limits = driving utopia.

If I may use an analogy, the current system is like teaching a kid how to ride a bicycle, taking off his training wheels, and then holding the handlebars for him the rest of his life.

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by maswastage

What makes the judge or the cop any more qualified to dictate what constitutes safe driving? Maybe it's the libertarian in me coming out...

But honestly, speed alone is almost never responsible for a crash. Weaving through traffic, following too closely, or driving without consideration for the weather, that is what causes accidents. And that is the kind of driving that needs to be punished with tickets. Speed limits are arbitrary and outdated, and their primary function is to collect $$$.

Perhaps it's job knowledge and experience combined with statistical analysis of all types of motor vehicle crashes as part of their training that qualifies cops or judges to have an opinion on what constitutes safe driving.

You are correct that speed alone doesn't cause crashes, its the combination of speed and the a-hole behind the wheel that cause crashes. It's the ease with which drivers can exceed the abilities of their car or their own skills that cause accidents, and all of the things you mentioned above are contributing factors, but it still comes down to the driver.

I agree with you about the speed limits being out dated, but I disagree that they are arbitrary. Take an average 1971 american made vehicle and try and drive it at the speeds you can safely drive a comparable modern car and tell me what you think then.

In our societey of short attention spans, easily provoked anger and distractions, it's no wonder we don't have more crashes. Especially considering that YOU might be in perfect control of your car and the other distratcted/debilitated/stupid driver then crashes into you...

To the OP, either you really draw attention to yourself, behave poorly when stopped by officers, or you have seriously BAD karma. No matter which one of the above it is, I would suggest modifying your behavior.

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by maswastage

I can agree with that, too. Better driver education + revised/modernized speed limits = driving utopia.

If I may use an analogy, the current system is like teaching a kid how to ride a bicycle, taking off his training wheels, and then holding the handlebars for him the rest of his life.

I see where you are going with this analogy, and I like it, but let me try another. It more like TELLING a kid how to ride a bicycle, letting him take a test that covers maybe 1% of the situations he may encounter while riding, THEN taking off the training wheels and holding the kid accountable for each mistake he makes over the course of his riding career.

After my last two trips to Germany, I am convinced that better driver training is essential to improving our abysmally poor driving abilities here in the states. Unfortunately, our entitlement mentality that everyone has the RIGHT to drive how they want, when they want will make changing the system difficult at best. The OP sounds like he is a victim of that mentality... The "I was going the same speed as the guy next to me argument," is indicative of that mentality as if it somehow eliminates his responsibility for speeding.

[Kbueno]

Speeding tickets are one thing...but accidents are another. I've lost count of the number of tickets I've had over the last 15 years, but I never caused an accident.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Bolded, italicized, and underlined. I am absolutely in support of increasing the difficulty of obtaining a driver's license. This above all else would result in much fewer accidents, and a higher general level of safety.

Agreed.

[blue2fire]

Shame on you OP. BMW drivers don't follow, we lead the way. How could you only be doing 85MPH behind a people carrier?

[Z4MCJJ]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

I see where you are going with this analogy, and I like it, but let me try another. It more like TELLING a kid how to ride a bicycle, letting him take a test that covers maybe 1% of the situations he may encounter while riding, THEN taking off the training wheels and holding the kid accountable for each mistake he makes over the course of his riding career.

After my last two trips to Germany, I am convinced that better driver training is essential to improving our abysmally poor driving abilities here in the states. Unfortunately, our entitlement mentality that everyone has the RIGHT to drive how they want, when they want will make changing the system difficult at best. The OP sounds like he is a victim of that mentality... The "I was going the same speed as the guy next to me argument," is indicative of that mentality as if it somehow eliminates his responsibility for speeding.

Yes, you see this sort of behavior everyday on the freeways when Toolsheds won't move over to the slower lanes...