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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Official N/A Dyno thread -



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      06-29-2017, 09:36 PM   #485
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Username: jvb6806
Car/Engine: 128i/N51
Transmission: Manual
Mods (brand of each mod you want):aFe "stage 2" intake, AA Headers, SuperSprint mid pipes, Magnaflow spun high flow cats, Magnaflow cat-back, AA "stage 2" tune, 93 octane
Dyno type: Dynocom
Peak numbers: 215whp/221wtq
Graph:

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      06-29-2017, 09:59 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by jvb6806 View Post
One more to the list...

Username: jvb6806
Car/Engine: 128i/N51
Transmission: Manual
Mods (brand of each mod you want):aFe "stage 2" intake, AA Headers, SuperSprint mid pipes, Magnaflow spun high flow cats, Magnaflow cat-back, AA "stage 2" tune, 93 octane
Dyno type: Dynocom
Peak numbers: 215whp/221wtq
Graph:

Got a link to your Magnaflow cats? How loud is your setup?
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      06-29-2017, 10:07 PM   #487
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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-59904

I am running two of those near where the stock location would have been in the factory mid pipes. The offset on them allowed me to squeeze them into the super sprint mids.

I ran with no cats for a bit after I put the header in but there was a very irritating rasp around 2k rpm that was driving me nuts. After the cats the rasp is gone, deep tone, I am very happy with it. It's not the quietest car on track... but it certainly isn't the loudest. I don't have a video of it with the current set up though, sorry I can't help.

I cut out the resonator & cutout the muffler, trying to find where the rasp was coming from (it was just a resonance thing) and both of those were not options as they were embarrassingly loud on the street (IMO). The setup is very streetable.
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      06-29-2017, 10:17 PM   #488
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Me too, he said funny things. Now I need to update my sig.

What did he do again to get banned? No one ever confirmed or linked.
His profile doesn't say banned anymore. I'm assuming the ban has been lifted., but he doesn't want to contribute here anymore. Don't blame him one bit.
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      06-29-2017, 11:16 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by jvb6806 View Post
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-59904

I am running two of those near where the stock location would have been in the factory mid pipes. The offset on them allowed me to squeeze them into the super sprint mids.

I ran with no cats for a bit after I put the header in but there was a very irritating rasp around 2k rpm that was driving me nuts. After the cats the rasp is gone, deep tone, I am very happy with it. It's not the quietest car on track... but it certainly isn't the loudest. I don't have a video of it with the current set up though, sorry I can't help.

I cut out the resonator & cutout the muffler, trying to find where the rasp was coming from (it was just a resonance thing) and both of those were not options as they were embarrassingly loud on the street (IMO). The setup is very streetable.
Nice... do you think the Magnaflow are more efficient than the stock secondary cats.
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      06-30-2017, 01:49 AM   #490
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His profile doesn't say banned anymore. I'm assuming the ban has been lifted., but he doesn't want to contribute here anymore. Don't blame him one bit.
Damn, send him a carrier pigeon that says we miss him and that str8-6ix is gone, so our average has gone back up :-)
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      06-30-2017, 03:44 AM   #491
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I Want TheAxiom Backkkkkk!!!
Something tells me he's back!
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      06-30-2017, 10:46 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
Nice... do you think the Magnaflow are more efficient than the stock secondary cats.
100%. I went with magnaflow after reading this article in GRM.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...nverter-face-/





vs something like this...

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      04-19-2018, 07:02 PM   #493
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Are my DISAs activated?

Intro
Hi, I would really appreciate some helpful feedback here as I just spent a $#%#$^& of money on what appears like ~18.5 peak horsepower at the crank when I was expecting somewhere in the 40-60 crank range.

Disclaimer
First off I just want to apologize for any misconceptions I have about dynos and the way they work as I'm not a long-time car guy and this is the first time i'm really seeing or dealing with CRANK dyno figures and not wheel figures. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken about something.

Mods
My car is a 2011 128i N52. Over the last few months I have added a 3-stage intake manifold, catless headers, and a mishimoto smooth intake tube.

What happened
I got it tuned today, $600 CAD for an "in-house tune" and +$180 CAD for the dyno results before and after. The tuner said he had done a couple of mine before. I tried to make it as clear as I possibly could in several emails and in person what I had done to my car and what I wanted the tune to accomplish.

I mentioned the fact that I had put in the 3-stage intake manifold several times and the DISAs needed to be turned on, but I suspect this was just never fully understood and he assumed my car had the 3IM in and working? Also when we were talking at the end of the tune, he was convinced my car stock has claimed 215hp and I told him no... it didn't, it's 230 claimed crank.

How he explained to me his dyno worked was that it gave very accurate CRANK results as they do in european dynos, by measuring the drivetrain losses by throwing the car in neutral. This makes it very easy to compare some numbers and show you why I am not convinced that the tune was done properly.

Numbers
Stock claimed 230. My car was never dynoed stock. The headers and intake boot should add some untuned power, but the intake manifold shouldn't add anything since the DISAs are just sitting there, and I remember the day I got the DISAs in, my butt-dyno registered a decrease of like 1 hp. (My tuner was under the impression when I changed the intake manifold my gains would be up before the tune, which is false from what I've learned on the forums, but he was convinced of it, or trying to convince me of it.)

My peak baseline numbers: 235.1 hp crank & 227.7 ft-lbs crank
So this makes sense to me, because we're comparing this to stock 230 hp & 200 ft-lbs (wow that's actually a lot of torque for no tune).

My Issue
I paid for the tune and the increase (at the CRANK) went up a whopping 13.4 peak hp and 4.2 whole entire gobs of torque.
Peak 248.5 hp crank, peak 231.9 torque crank

Conclusion
Ok sure the curve is smoother. but just turning on the DISAs should +30 peak hp for ONLY THE INTAKE MANIFOLD IF I HAD DONE NOTHING ELSE. This is further cemented in my mind by the fact that he was saying his dyno provided very close to stock claimed numbers, and he showed me examples. Indeed they were close. Then I started bringing up a stock 330 has claimed 255 or 260 hp, not including the fact my car has headers and a tune it is making 7-12 less? this was met with something like "variations in dyno runs you know not all cars at the same, for example some other cars were making 340 on this dyno when they're claimed 355."

Ok sure, maybe your dyno missed a stock 330i reading by 12 horsepower due to variations in the readings. But what about my headers and my tune? Those won't make up at least 12 hp???

And yes I know dyno readings and variations are large and I shouldn't focus on numbers too much. Am I being unreasonable? It really feels to me like he just tuned my car and left the DISAs in their state of hibernation. My peak crank hp numbers should be 270-290 range not 248.5.

I asked him if he could monitor the DISAs and check that they were working, he said yes he could track that they were doing something....what that may have been I'm not quite sure. Not sure if he explained that he could track them actually moving or just if he could track maybe that they existed or something like that. Now I have a question for the forum gurus here. Is there any way myself or my proficient mechanic can verify the DISAs are working as they should be as though they were in a stock 330?

Anyway I'm out a lot of money. If I can prove the DISAs weren't activated I'll show him the proof and try to get him to activate them for me.
Otherwise I might have to go a different route.. After spending the money on getting the hardware in, as much as I would hate to have to do it, it's worth it to me to spend another ~1k to get the missing 30 crank hp. I'm pot-committed as frick right now.

Oh but yeah also am I just wrong about how I'm reading the graph because it's "crank" and DIN adjusted and everything's fine (well it can't be because +13hp on the tune crank or otherwise doesn't make sense)
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Last edited by kanuckstuff; 04-19-2018 at 07:05 PM.. Reason: Picture was huge
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      04-19-2018, 07:28 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
They are working, but that tune may not be...

That RPM scale is wonky - either he has the set points way too low, or he the RPM signal was off (wrong spark-plug firing frequency/ degrees of crank rotation) it shows that the car falls off well before redline - which isn't correct.

You're right on this one. The 128I came with the 230hp variant of the N52, cars like the 330i came with 255hp. With headers and manifold and the most basic of tunes 230WHP + should be be possible...

Anyhow it hard to compare dynos - I would ask to see where he has the setpoints, see what he's doing with the valvetiming compared to stock and ask to see what the AFR is...ignition - ask if he changed the lift...
Thanks for the quick and informative response.

I also noticed the redline drop-off. I can try to ask him, if he responds with numbers can I PM you for further advice?

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      04-19-2018, 07:30 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanuckstuff View Post
Intro
Hi, I would really appreciate some helpful feedback here as I just spent a $#%#$^& of money on what appears like ~18.5 peak horsepower at the crank when I was expecting somewhere in the 40-60 crank range.

Disclaimer
First off I just want to apologize for any misconceptions I have about dynos and the way they work as I'm not a long-time car guy and this is the first time i'm really seeing or dealing with CRANK dyno figures and not wheel figures. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken about something.

Mods
My car is a 2011 128i N52. Over the last few months I have added a 3-stage intake manifold, catless headers, and a mishimoto smooth intake tube.

What happened
I got it tuned today, $600 CAD for an "in-house tune" and +$180 CAD for the dyno results before and after. The tuner said he had done a couple of mine before. I tried to make it as clear as I possibly could in several emails and in person what I had done to my car and what I wanted the tune to accomplish.

I mentioned the fact that I had put in the 3-stage intake manifold several times and the DISAs needed to be turned on, but I suspect this was just never fully understood and he assumed my car had the 3IM in and working? Also when we were talking at the end of the tune, he was convinced my car stock has claimed 215hp and I told him no... it didn't, it's 230 claimed crank.

How he explained to me his dyno worked was that it gave very accurate CRANK results as they do in european dynos, by measuring the drivetrain losses by throwing the car in neutral. This makes it very easy to compare some numbers and show you why I am not convinced that the tune was done properly.

Numbers
Stock claimed 230. My car was never dynoed stock. The headers and intake boot should add some untuned power, but the intake manifold shouldn't add anything since the DISAs are just sitting there, and I remember the day I got the DISAs in, my butt-dyno registered a decrease of like 1 hp. (My tuner was under the impression when I changed the intake manifold my gains would be up before the tune, which is false from what I've learned on the forums, but he was convinced of it, or trying to convince me of it.)

My peak baseline numbers: 235.1 hp crank & 227.7 ft-lbs crank
So this makes sense to me, because we're comparing this to stock 230 hp & 200 ft-lbs (wow that's actually a lot of torque for no tune).

My Issue
I paid for the tune and the increase (at the CRANK) went up a whopping 13.4 peak hp and 4.2 whole entire gobs of torque.
Peak 248.5 hp crank, peak 231.9 torque crank

Conclusion
Ok sure the curve is smoother. but just turning on the DISAs should +30 peak hp for ONLY THE INTAKE MANIFOLD IF I HAD DONE NOTHING ELSE. This is further cemented in my mind by the fact that he was saying his dyno provided very close to stock claimed numbers, and he showed me examples. Indeed they were close. Then I started bringing up a stock 330 has claimed 255 or 260 hp, not including the fact my car has headers and a tune it is making 7-12 less? this was met with something like "variations in dyno runs you know not all cars at the same, for example some other cars were making 340 on this dyno when they're claimed 355."

Ok sure, maybe your dyno missed a stock 330i reading by 12 horsepower due to variations in the readings. But what about my headers and my tune? Those won't make up at least 12 hp???

And yes I know dyno readings and variations are large and I shouldn't focus on numbers too much. Am I being unreasonable? It really feels to me like he just tuned my car and left the DISAs in their state of hibernation. My peak crank hp numbers should be 270-290 range not 248.5.

I asked him if he could monitor the DISAs and check that they were working, he said yes he could track that they were doing something....what that may have been I'm not quite sure. Not sure if he explained that he could track them actually moving or just if he could track maybe that they existed or something like that. Now I have a question for the forum gurus here. Is there any way myself or my proficient mechanic can verify the DISAs are working as they should be as though they were in a stock 330?

Anyway I'm out a lot of money. If I can prove the DISAs weren't activated I'll show him the proof and try to get him to activate them for me.
Otherwise I might have to go a different route.. After spending the money on getting the hardware in, as much as I would hate to have to do it, it's worth it to me to spend another ~1k to get the missing 30 crank hp. I'm pot-committed as frick right now.

Oh but yeah also am I just wrong about how I'm reading the graph because it's "crank" and DIN adjusted and everything's fine (well it can't be because +13hp on the tune crank or otherwise doesn't make sense)
Where to start?

Firstly how does the car feel? That's what's really important. You drive it, did the tune make it more fun to drive?

If you notice, most of the dyno reports show RWHP, that's what a dyno can report and what many say is the important number.

It's hard to report on your values as someone has dropped in a correction value for drivetrain losses.

Your 328 should have stock 230HP but it's hard to say what the 3im and headers were doing to that value before the tune. Plus 5 for the intake plus 20 for the headers who knows, what brand are they?

I would expect the tune to add more than just a few HP, the gain seem low anyway you look at it. Does your Dyno report have the fuel mixtures? That might tell us a story.

You can use a logging tool to monitor nearly all aspects of the engine operation. Down and dirty you can run INPA on a laptop and have a friend watch the Disa values while you drive.
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      04-19-2018, 07:49 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanuckstuff View Post
Intro
Hi, I would really appreciate some helpful feedback here as I just spent a $#%#$^& of money on what appears like ~18.5 peak horsepower at the crank when I was expecting somewhere in the 40-60 crank range.

Disclaimer
First off I just want to apologize for any misconceptions I have about dynos and the way they work as I'm not a long-time car guy and this is the first time i'm really seeing or dealing with CRANK dyno figures and not wheel figures. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken about something.

Mods
My car is a 2011 128i N52. Over the last few months I have added a 3-stage intake manifold, catless headers, and a mishimoto smooth intake tube.

What happened
I got it tuned today, $600 CAD for an "in-house tune" and +$180 CAD for the dyno results before and after. The tuner said he had done a couple of mine before. I tried to make it as clear as I possibly could in several emails and in person what I had done to my car and what I wanted the tune to accomplish.

I mentioned the fact that I had put in the 3-stage intake manifold several times and the DISAs needed to be turned on, but I suspect this was just never fully understood and he assumed my car had the 3IM in and working? Also when we were talking at the end of the tune, he was convinced my car stock has claimed 215hp and I told him no... it didn't, it's 230 claimed crank.

How he explained to me his dyno worked was that it gave very accurate CRANK results as they do in european dynos, by measuring the drivetrain losses by throwing the car in neutral. This makes it very easy to compare some numbers and show you why I am not convinced that the tune was done properly.

Numbers
Stock claimed 230. My car was never dynoed stock. The headers and intake boot should add some untuned power, but the intake manifold shouldn't add anything since the DISAs are just sitting there, and I remember the day I got the DISAs in, my butt-dyno registered a decrease of like 1 hp. (My tuner was under the impression when I changed the intake manifold my gains would be up before the tune, which is false from what I've learned on the forums, but he was convinced of it, or trying to convince me of it.)

My peak baseline numbers: 235.1 hp crank & 227.7 ft-lbs crank
So this makes sense to me, because we're comparing this to stock 230 hp & 200 ft-lbs (wow that's actually a lot of torque for no tune).

My Issue
I paid for the tune and the increase (at the CRANK) went up a whopping 13.4 peak hp and 4.2 whole entire gobs of torque.
Peak 248.5 hp crank, peak 231.9 torque crank

Conclusion
Ok sure the curve is smoother. but just turning on the DISAs should +30 peak hp for ONLY THE INTAKE MANIFOLD IF I HAD DONE NOTHING ELSE. This is further cemented in my mind by the fact that he was saying his dyno provided very close to stock claimed numbers, and he showed me examples. Indeed they were close. Then I started bringing up a stock 330 has claimed 255 or 260 hp, not including the fact my car has headers and a tune it is making 7-12 less? this was met with something like "variations in dyno runs you know not all cars at the same, for example some other cars were making 340 on this dyno when they're claimed 355."

Ok sure, maybe your dyno missed a stock 330i reading by 12 horsepower due to variations in the readings. But what about my headers and my tune? Those won't make up at least 12 hp???

And yes I know dyno readings and variations are large and I shouldn't focus on numbers too much. Am I being unreasonable? It really feels to me like he just tuned my car and left the DISAs in their state of hibernation. My peak crank hp numbers should be 270-290 range not 248.5.

I asked him if he could monitor the DISAs and check that they were working, he said yes he could track that they were doing something....what that may have been I'm not quite sure. Not sure if he explained that he could track them actually moving or just if he could track maybe that they existed or something like that. Now I have a question for the forum gurus here. Is there any way myself or my proficient mechanic can verify the DISAs are working as they should be as though they were in a stock 330?

Anyway I'm out a lot of money. If I can prove the DISAs weren't activated I'll show him the proof and try to get him to activate them for me.
Otherwise I might have to go a different route.. After spending the money on getting the hardware in, as much as I would hate to have to do it, it's worth it to me to spend another ~1k to get the missing 30 crank hp. I'm pot-committed as frick right now.

Oh but yeah also am I just wrong about how I'm reading the graph because it's "crank" and DIN adjusted and everything's fine (well it can't be because +13hp on the tune crank or otherwise doesn't make sense)
Anyone claiming accurate crank HP measured at the wheels is nonsense.

Also, who is the tuner? We dont know anything about what they really changed. There are many parameters for DISA that most tuners dont even know about, much less adjust properly.
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      04-19-2018, 08:05 PM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Where to start?

Firstly how does the car feel? That's what's really important. You drive it, did the tune make it more fun to drive?

If you notice, most of the dyno reports show RWHP, that's what a dyno can report and what many say is the important number.

It's hard to report on your values as someone has dropped in a correction value for drivetrain losses.

Your 328 should have stock 230HP but it's hard to say what the 3im and headers were doing to that value before the tune. Plus 5 for the intake plus 20 for the headers who knows, what brand are they?

I would expect the tune to add more than just a few HP, the gain seem low anyway you look at it. Does your Dyno report have the fuel mixtures? That might tell us a story.

You can use a logging tool to monitor nearly all aspects of the engine operation. Down and dirty you can run INPA on a laptop and have a friend watch the Disa values while you drive.
I didn't get a good chance to take it for a thorough butt-dyno. But from what I tried on my brief drive home, it didn't feel very different especially considering the testimonials I've read online for going this mod route. It felt very inline with the dyno chart if I'm honest. 13 crank horsepower more, it's just a little, I can feel it, but it's just a little.

Regarding measurement at the wheel: The drivetrain losses are at the bottom of the dyno, so at peak my Wheel Horsepower looks like about 217 wheel and my torque is...kinda funny, because the losses increase with higher rpm, my peak torque to the wheel is actually around 223 ft-lbs at 2750rpm because the losses increased from about 9 to 15 torque over that rpm range.

I was given no information regarding air:fuel ratios.

And regarding the DISA that's good to know, thanks, I will take it for a spin with my mechanic to check their function.
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      04-19-2018, 09:04 PM   #498
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Who tuned your car, locally?
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      04-27-2018, 08:20 PM   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Anyone claiming accurate crank HP measured at the wheels is nonsense.
Thanks for that...I was scratching my head...didn't make any sense...
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      05-04-2019, 04:28 PM   #500
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Bump from the dead!


I had my 328i on the dyno (DynoJet) today at BPC's Spring Dyno Day so I thought I'd share my results.

241.65/228.6

Specs: 2011 E92 328i
  • 3 stage intake manifold
  • Active Autowerke Headers
  • BPC header/3SIM OTS tune
  • Laptorr header back exhaust system
  • Turner Motorsports N52 Intake





Pretty happy with 241whp. Hopefully a true Dyno tune will get closer to 250!

Last edited by Minutes2Midnight; 05-04-2019 at 04:39 PM..
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