E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > New & Preowned BMW Ordering / Pricing / Tracking Information Forum (including European Delivery) > How to go about bargaining...



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-13-2014, 09:08 AM   #1
Segments
Aspiring 1'er
Segments's Avatar
78
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: 2008 BSM 135i
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

How to go about bargaining...

Have been looking at cars for a few months now, mainly 2007-2009 328xi coupes, and have been told that the list prices are too high , and I should be able to get these cars for marginally cheaper. Now, I'm assuming that is due to the way you talk these dealers down. Can someone give me some "firepower," for lack of better words, to haggle them ? What exactly do you argue to get a car down from 15k-16k to 13k-14k ? Thanks.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2014, 01:05 PM   #2
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

I highly boubt any dealer will sell you a e92 coupe for 13-14k
I sold a 2008 328xi coupe with 79k miles for 13000 with a salvage title, no frame damage and airbags didnt pop, but still a branded title. Even on craigslist prices are above 14k for coupes. Maybe its different in NY tho as im in Cali
Appreciate 0
      08-31-2014, 05:16 PM   #3
mythek
Captain
United_States
40
Rep
823
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i Coupe TIAG
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Orange County, CA, USA, NA, EARTH.

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by igor_ki View Post
I highly boubt any dealer will sell you a e92 coupe for 13-14k
I sold a 2008 328xi coupe with 79k miles for 13000 with a salvage title, no frame damage and airbags didnt pop, but still a branded title. Even on craigslist prices are above 14k for coupes. Maybe its different in NY tho as im in Cali
even though what you said may be true...but keep in mind that car prices are dependent on your location. You're comparing CA price to NY price.

With that being said, here are some hustling tips in chronological order:

1) Don't go to the dealership and act like you're in love with the car (even if you are, just hide it until you get the car). You have to set expectation to the salesman that the car is w/e to you and you can easily find substitutes. Make sure they know that you can walk out and would not look back.

2) Go to the dealership towards the end of the month. Sometimes to meet a certain quota to close out the month, some dealership are more willing to work out a nice deal for you. Even better if you can come in the evening, that way it give them the incentive to close the deal with you so they can go home.

3) Learn about the car the you're interested to buy. Write down an important feature that it doesn't have....whether it's the sport package, interior, manual transmission, certain trim, and etc. When the salesman bring you to the car to check it out...point out that not having this certain feature really is a deal breaker for you, but you really like <insert a feature that you really like about the car here>...

4) Last step is close inspection of the car. Pay attention closely to PAINT on different body parts...if you see signs of repainting or paint not matching. Look out for any paint imperfections like scratches, rock chips, and etc... Look at the wear and tear parts like tires, brakes and etc... Look at the service history. Anything you can find can be good ammo for you to fight for additional discounts.

hope that helps
Appreciate 0
      09-01-2014, 12:55 PM   #4
XM_Rocks
Captain
63
Rep
688
Posts

Drives: 2016 GTI, sold my E90 N54
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Segments View Post
Have been looking at cars for a few months now, mainly 2007-2009 328xi coupes, and have been told that the list prices are too high , and I should be able to get these cars for marginally cheaper. Now, I'm assuming that is due to the way you talk these dealers down. Can someone give me some "firepower," for lack of better words, to haggle them ? What exactly do you argue to get a car down from 15k-16k to 13k-14k ? Thanks.
Firepower?

Every used car is different.

Also every dealer/wholesale buyer has varying inventory and has had different experiences good/bad experiences with the product and option combos that may skew their market estimation.

On top of that the dealer may have had a car for 5 or 90 days which changes everything.

There is no firepower anyone can use to effectively get any used car down $2-$3k because there are too many variables. Heck some dealers price their used cars at 10% over what they pay for them. Some May price lower or higher.

New cars are easy... Used cars aren't.

If you go into it only wanting to get $X,XXX off any used cars you may pay for it in the long run.

I look at each individual car.

There have been cars I have lowballed and walked away and there are used cars I have paid their full ask price due to the car.
Appreciate 0
      09-01-2014, 04:18 PM   #5
SLOWER
Lieutenant Colonel
SLOWER's Avatar
United_States
309
Rep
1,733
Posts

Drives: 2003 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MA

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
The used car market through dealers is tough now with the internet pricing. Coming down $2k in that range is going to be tough. If you are not trading anything, your strategy has to be "this is the most I feel comfortable paying"... and see if they will work with you.
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2014, 08:46 AM   #6
Former USMC
Private First Class
Former USMC's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
137
Posts

Drives: 2013 335is Crimson Red
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ca

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Segments View Post
Have been looking at cars for a few months now, mainly 2007-2009 328xi coupes, and have been told that the list prices are too high , and I should be able to get these cars for marginally cheaper. Now, I'm assuming that is due to the way you talk these dealers down. Can someone give me some "firepower," for lack of better words, to haggle them ? What exactly do you argue to get a car down from 15k-16k to 13k-14k ? Thanks.
Segments,

Be glad to assist. I don't think a $2000 discount off a USED car is unreasonable. Nor is it unreasonable for a new car.

You might be surprised to learn what dealers make on used cars - the profit is sometimes more than a new car. I would be willing to postulate that the 2007/09 has at least $4000 - $5000 profit in it.

Regarding "firepower" - arm yourself. Arm yourself with knowledge. Spend a little time and do your research. Check out KBB, Auto Trader, TrueCar, Edmunds, etc. regarding current used car prices. Use this information to gently and persuasively negotiate the selling price.

Closely inspect the auto - look for everything. However, most dealers don't care if the car has a scratch or mismatched tires or a dirty engine compartment. You could say, "It will cost me $1500 to replace the tires or fix the paint, etc. However, this tactic may not have an impact on the price. However, it may be something that you will not want to accept.

According to the experts, pharmacists and pastors rank near the top for honesty; and used car salesmen typically rank last - according to the experts/research. You may not get all the information you need to make a good decision.

Don't get emotional about the purchase. Emotions affect logical thinking. Keep your emotions in check and use your brain while negotiating. Be prepared to walk and look elsewhere. Do NOT fall in love with the car...any car. You (like everyone else) need a car. You do NOT, however, need a 2007/09 BMW. Any car will get you from point A to point B.

Let me give you an example. If a 2007 BMW is listed for $15,000 (at a dealership). The average trade in price might be $11,000 (excellent condition). There is a very good chance the dealer paid $10,000 for the car. They most always pay less than trade in price for a used car. Therefore, you know the dealer is making $5,000 profit. How do I know this - I've leased cars for years and upon lease expiration - I tried to selling them to a dealer. They typically give you below wholesale price.

Don't worry about ensuring the dealer is making a profit. That's NOT your responsibility. You want the car for the least amount of money. Start low and be willing to go up a little to show good faith. I would suggest $500 at a time, but no more. So, start at $10,000 and move up to $10,500 and so on. Be firm with your ultimate price, e.g., $11,500. If the dealer does not budge - WALK. Get up, thank them for the opportunity to discuss the purchase, be polite and professional, and walk out. Call back or visit in a day or two and try a different sales person. Be prepared to walk again...leave your number...you will get a phone call. Let them know you're keenly interested, been pre-approved or have cash, but not in love with the car...you just need a car. It's okay to say, I'm looking at Lexus, Infiniti and whatever.

Most suggest buying near the end of the month. Some are trying to meet their quotas and MIGHT be willing to negotiate a lower price to hit their targets.

Terms you should know:
1. Retail price.
2. Trade-in price.
3. Wholesale price.
4. Private party retail price.
5. Four conditions; excellent, good, fair, poor.
6. Current prices on like models.

Remember, dealers have a huge overhead and private sellers do not. It might be to your advantage to buy from a private seller.

I hope you find this information helpful - and, another arrow in your quiver.

Semper Fi
Appreciate 1
      09-02-2014, 11:01 AM   #7
XM_Rocks
Captain
63
Rep
688
Posts

Drives: 2016 GTI, sold my E90 N54
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former USMC View Post
I would be willing to postulate that the 2007/09 has at least $4000 - $5000 profit in it.
This is very rare.

Occasionally this might be true if the dealership buyer hits a home run but that is normally not the case.

My first job out of college was selling used cars at a Lexus dealer.

I can tell you that most used cars in the $30k-$45k range had about $2k-$3.5k in profits.

I made 20% so my average commision was ~$500-$600 a car.

That is if we were able to inflate their perceived value by certifying them.

My E90 I bought last year I bought from a dealer however I was dealing with the buyer through Craigslist prior to her trading in.

I was out of town on business for two weeks and she couldn't hold off.

She told me they gave her $15,000.

Funny the dealer was honest and showed me what they gave her and what they spent.

They put two rear tires on, oil change and a detail.... so they put ~$600 into the car. They listed the car for $17,900 and I was able to get them down to $16,600.

So their profit was around $1k.

I kicked myself on the timing but knew the car was, accident free, cared for and it passed a PPI with flying colors.
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2014, 06:46 AM   #8
Former USMC
Private First Class
Former USMC's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
137
Posts

Drives: 2013 335is Crimson Red
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ca

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XM_Rocks View Post
This is very rare.

Occasionally this might be true if the dealership buyer hits a home run but that is normally not the case.

My first job out of college was selling used cars at a Lexus dealer.

I can tell you that most used cars in the $30k-$45k range had about $2k-$3.5k in profits.

I made 20% so my average commision was ~$500-$600 a car.

That is if we were able to inflate their perceived value by certifying them.

My E90 I bought last year I bought from a dealer however I was dealing with the buyer through Craigslist prior to her trading in.

I was out of town on business for two weeks and she couldn't hold off.

She told me they gave her $15,000.

Funny the dealer was honest and showed me what they gave her and what they spent.

They put two rear tires on, oil change and a detail.... so they put ~$600 into the car. They listed the car for $17,900 and I was able to get them down to $16,600.

So their profit was around $1k.

I kicked myself on the timing but knew the car was, accident free, cared for and it passed a PPI with flying colors.
XM Rocks,

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957595

I just stumbled upon this thread and thought it might be useful. My last car, the dealer wanted to give me $39000 for my 2010. He had a 2009 on the lot for $49000.

Hard to pin down exact numbers.

Semper Fi
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2014, 02:13 PM   #9
XM_Rocks
Captain
63
Rep
688
Posts

Drives: 2016 GTI, sold my E90 N54
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former USMC View Post
XM Rocks,

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957595

I just stumbled upon this thread and thought it might be useful. My last car, the dealer wanted to give me $39000 for my 2010. He had a 2009 on the lot for $49000.

Hard to pin down exact numbers.

Semper Fi
I totally understand.

That's why I said its rare to get that kind of reduction.

I never said it can't be done or have never happened.

Sometimes dealers price vehicles too high because they miscalculate the market and walla you see huge reductions.

Some cars have been reduced due to aging on the lot and a buyer comes along unaware that huge price reductions have already happened.

The price they buy cars and the price the sell them for are also highly variable.
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2014, 07:53 PM   #10
snaimpally
Major
United_States
136
Rep
1,192
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i MT
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335i  [0.00]
I think the other posters have provided some excellent suggestions. One of the best things you can do is to be informed. Do regular searches on autotrader, cars.com, CarMax, etc. and know what the current pricing is for the model+options you are looking at. During those searches, you will come across some bargains that are, for whatever reason, priced significantly below market. Print those off and show them to them to the dealer to show that (1) your price is not unreasonable and (2) you have options on where to buy.

I searched for cars within a 500 mile radius to include cars in bigger markets (Dallas and Houston). I came across a car that was offered by a non-BMW dealer (it was a lease return bought at auction) for several thousand below KBB. Despite the listing saying "no haggle" price, I offered 2k below the asking price and got the dealer to come down another 1k. In all, I got it for $5k below KBB. So be patient and hunt for a bargain.

If you have spotted a car you want, but the dealer is asking too much, make what you feel is a fair offer, and if they don't accept it, walk away. Come back the next week and try again, etc. If your offer is not unreasonable, they will at some point take it.
__________________
PTF Map, Pure Turbo Stage 1, GFB DV+, Mfactory LSD, AA FMIC, B12 Pro Kit, M3 FCA, AR DP and
Dynavin N6, Mosconi AS100.4, AS100.4, AS200.2, Micro Precision tweeters & woofers, Esotar2 1200
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2014, 12:41 AM   #11
Eagle1oh7
Lieutenant Colonel
Eagle1oh7's Avatar
United_States
286
Rep
1,710
Posts

Drives: '11 328i Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chula Vista CA

iTrader: (0)

In my experience in buying my wife's car, we paid straight cash for it which really gives you an advantage and then they'll try to talk you into financing. They wanted 39k for it and we(wife) talked them down to 32k or 34k, I don't remember what exactly, but my wife was ready to walk away and they caved and we have the car that depreciated quite a bit so I'm glad we paid cash and paid way less than expected. It came pretty well equipped except for manual seats and ambient lighting.
__________________
DONE: Seibon CF Hood, M3 Rep, MSport rear w/DD CF Diffuser, M3 Rep Skirts, Seibon CSL trunklid, Forgestar F14 18s w/Michelin PSS, Eisenmann catback, AA Headers, BPC Stage 2, Charcoal Delete+revMotor+AFE Drop In filter
FUTURE MODS: LED headlights, CF rooftop, M3 Suspension Conversion, Dinan CAI Mod
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2014, 07:22 PM   #12
XM_Rocks
Captain
63
Rep
688
Posts

Drives: 2016 GTI, sold my E90 N54
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
In my experience in buying my wife's car, we paid straight cash for it which really gives you an advantage and then they'll try to talk you into financing. They wanted 39k for it and we(wife) talked them down to 32k or 34k, I don't remember what exactly, but my wife was ready to walk away and they caved and we have the car that depreciated quite a bit so I'm glad we paid cash and paid way less than expected. It came pretty well equipped except for manual seats and ambient lighting.
My experience is that at reputable dealers (ie not cash car lots) using cash as a bargaining tool doesn't really work.

Most dealers make loads of money on the back end.

I know at the Lexus dealer we made loads of the money on the "back end".

Even if they don't make money on you and you have good credit you can help raise their portfolio average with their lenders.

My CU was at 1.85% for used but the dealer I was dealing with crushed that rate and got me 1.45%.

They wanted me to help bring their monthly average up with their lender and in their words balance some future bad deals.

805 FICO FTW!
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2014, 08:47 PM   #13
RIDERDIE
First Lieutenant
RIDERDIE's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
329
Posts

Drives: 12 f30 n20
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH

iTrader: (1)

There really isn't much bargaining room anymore which is unfortunate because haggling can be fun. These days you are lucky to get $1,000 off. Try Usaa as they after discounts on certain vehicles if your a member. KBB isn't always correct but it's a good reference for you. Good haggling points are if the car has few options they can't ask what others with more options are asking. Find a few cars with in a 100 - 200 mile radius with lower prices and similar functions and print the adds off to show them. Never pay the additonal fees. Unfortunately cash doesn't get any discounts these days so see if they will take more off if you finance (rate of 4-7%). They are also a little more willing to deal at the end of the month also.
__________________

2007 e92 n54 - sold
2003 e46 M3 - sold
1999 e36 M3 - sold
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2014, 10:52 AM   #14
snaimpally
Major
United_States
136
Rep
1,192
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i MT
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Another tip to save money - go into the dealership pre-authorized for a car loan. When I went in to buy my 335i earlier this year, I went in pre-authorized at a rate that was very low (2.49%) and yet the dealer still managed to beat it (2.34%).
__________________
PTF Map, Pure Turbo Stage 1, GFB DV+, Mfactory LSD, AA FMIC, B12 Pro Kit, M3 FCA, AR DP and
Dynavin N6, Mosconi AS100.4, AS100.4, AS200.2, Micro Precision tweeters & woofers, Esotar2 1200
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2014, 01:00 PM   #15
SSW
I Can't Drive 55
SSW's Avatar
United_States
129
Rep
883
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW 335i (E90)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
What value do Kelly and NADA put on the car you are looking to buy?

That's the best "firepower" to use in negotiating w/any one (dealer or private party) on the price of a car. Do not pay more unless there are options which justify a higher price. If the car is priced over book, tell them that (they know it already) and pull out the printouts to prove it. If they won't budge on the price, look elsewhere.

Simple as that.

I bought a 2007 FJ Cruiser from a dealer which was fairly priced at $19k for $18.2k net and I had to really "work" to get that. Not a big discount and they gave me a hard time about it but, if the margins are as small as others say, I got a good deal.

Other than that, as they say, MONEY talks and BS walks. Be serious, know what the car is worth, know what you're willing to pay, have the $ and/or financing in hand and be ready to walk away if the terms are not acceptable. If you do that, you'll be able to find a car for the price you want.

Good luck!
__________________
2008 Black Sapphire 335i E90 Sport & Premium Pkgs - Cobb Stage 1+FMIC Sport map, Mishimoto FMIC & Alpina B3 AT Flash. See: My Build Thread.

Last edited by SSW; 09-08-2014 at 12:57 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2014, 02:28 PM   #16
XM_Rocks
Captain
63
Rep
688
Posts

Drives: 2016 GTI, sold my E90 N54
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSW View Post
What value do Kelly and NADA put on the car you are looking to buy?

That's the best "firepower" to use in negotiating w/any one (dealer or private party) on the price of a car. Do not pay more unless there are options which justify a higher price. If the car is priced over book, tell them that (they know it already) and pull out the printouts to prove it. If they won't budge on the price, look elsewhere.

Simple as that.
KBB and NADA are only guides.

If you read their methodology they use a sample of sales (sometimes up to 6 mos old) and KBB even assigns their opinion or flavor to the numbers.

They are notoriously inaccurate and should be used only to figure out a ballpark for something.

Honestly most car dealers use Black Book which is a composite of recent auction results from the big auctions (Manheim/Adesa).

Even then wholesale buyers will only use those as a guide. They also use their personal experience and what their dealership needs to set their proxies for sale.

Until KBB and NADA will literally offer you money for a vehicle based on their pricing take them with a grain of salt and use them as a guide only.
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2014, 06:46 PM   #17
SSW
I Can't Drive 55
SSW's Avatar
United_States
129
Rep
883
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW 335i (E90)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by XM_Rocks View Post
Until KBB and NADA will literally offer you money for a vehicle based on their pricing take them with a grain of salt and use them as a guide only.
Understood but they're all that retail customers w/no access to auction results and other "inside" info can rely on. However, in my experience, both KBB and NADA have been pretty accurate in determining value, as verified by lender valuation of the cars I've purchased previously.
__________________
2008 Black Sapphire 335i E90 Sport & Premium Pkgs - Cobb Stage 1+FMIC Sport map, Mishimoto FMIC & Alpina B3 AT Flash. See: My Build Thread.
Appreciate 0
      09-09-2014, 05:28 PM   #18
Former USMC
Private First Class
Former USMC's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
137
Posts

Drives: 2013 335is Crimson Red
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ca

iTrader: (0)

Research

Couple of thoughts.

1. Based on research, KBB, Edmunds, Black Book and True Car; there is a lot of room to negotiate a price. Each source provides trade-in value, private party price, dealer price and certified price.
2. Here's the "dealer price" on a 2012 BMW 335is with 18000 miles in excellent condition; all three of the below scenarios had identical options.

KBB - $44034
True - $43650
BB - $43725

Dealer car prices for the 2012 335is via the internet (options are unknown)
Car 1 - $40999 (23000 miles)
Car 2 - $41988 (27000 miles)
Car 3 - $46980 (22000 miles)

Looks like those above prices from KBB, True, and BB are pretty darn close. Dealer prices did not include options and all three had more than 18000 miles.

Trade-in prices according to the on-line sources were around $5000 less than the dealer price.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:11 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST