E90Post
 


Coby Wheel
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Ess supercharger



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-31-2014, 06:36 AM   #947
Southjersey128
Second Lieutenant
Southjersey128's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
272
Posts

Drives: 2008 128i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW 128i  [10.00]
I've been following this thread for a while and haven't seen it asked. Will the tuning be via a piece of obdII hardware or does the ecu need to be sent out to be programed? Through looking on their site, they do have obdII hardware. Would it be included in the kit or cost extra?
__________________
Afe Scoops and CAI, PBX, BMS Paddleshift upgrade, 261M's Powder Coated Gunmetal, 225/255 Michelin PSS, (BMW Performance: BBK, Illuminated Door Sills, Shifter Knob and Boot, E-Brake Handle, Steering Wheel, Front Strut Bar), E93 FSB, E92 RSB, M3 Rear Subframe Bushings, M3 Front Control Arms, HPA coilover kit (Koni Adjustables and Swift Springs), Steel Brake Hoses, Black Kidneys, Smoked LED side markers, Blacklines, Msport lip spoiler...
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 07:48 AM   #948
norsairius
Foodie and Gearhead
norsairius's Avatar
United_States
101
Rep
733
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i xDrive Sedan
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: MN

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I would've been all over this kit if I had kept my 328 coupe! I ended up moving to a 335 sedan though because I wanted 4 doors and the exact right color/options combo came up!

I'm genuinely curious to see some performance tests and numbers on this setup!
__________________
2011 335i xDrive Sedan, Deep Sea Blue w/Oyster Interior
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 09:39 AM   #949
DUI Elite
///M at Heart
DUI Elite's Avatar
89
Rep
1,954
Posts

Drives: 06 SGM E90, 15 BSM E84
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by essex_lad View Post
oh really so the dsa modules wont be a problem then?
This is really something that should be clarified better.

+WHP on 220 WHP from a 330 vs 190 WHP from a 325i is a big difference.

It'd be nice to hear if having the 3-stage manifold is still beneficial (or even harmful) from the guys that did so much R&D on it.
__________________

| 3-IM | AA Headers | Eurocharged Stage-3 | BMW PI |
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 10:39 AM   #950
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Software willl bring the 325I up to 330I levels if you have the manifold. If you don't, I'd imagine the 325i/328i will be on the same level.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 11:17 AM   #951
InControl
Lieutenant
InControl's Avatar
59
Rep
552
Posts

Drives: '13 328i coupe
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Software willl bring the 325I up to 330I levels if you have the manifold. If you don't, I'd imagine the 325i/328i will be on the same level.
I think his concern is the use of DISA with the SC. I would suspect you don't want to run DISA and SC at the same time as the DISA is well known to be fragile compared to the standard manifold used on the 328i n52b30.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 11:47 AM   #952
kisho
Quiet till poked
United_States
98
Rep
1,176
Posts

Drives: E90 325xi
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: MD

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [9.50]
I actually just emailed Roman about this. Let's see what he says.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 12:06 PM   #953
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
3940
Rep
7,216
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by InControl View Post
I think his concern is the use of DISA with the SC. I would suspect you don't want to run DISA and SC at the same time as the DISA is well known to be fragile compared to the standard manifold used on the 328i n52b30.
it's only 6 PSI.. what do you think is going to happen? lol

danger to the manifold!!!!
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 12:23 PM   #954
essex_lad
Banned
United Kingdom
106
Rep
1,562
Posts

Drives: E92 Msport N53 Stage 2
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Essex

iTrader: (0)

the amount of time this things taking Im starting to think it may be a scrapped project with them and we all may be getting out hopes up for nothing.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 12:30 PM   #955
kisho
Quiet till poked
United_States
98
Rep
1,176
Posts

Drives: E90 325xi
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: MD

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [9.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southjersey128 View Post
I've been following this thread for a while and haven't seen it asked. Will the tuning be via a piece of obdII hardware or does the ecu need to be sent out to be programed? Through looking on their site, they do have obdII hardware. Would it be included in the kit or cost extra?
Here's what Roman told me:
Software will be done via our remote tuning cable. We will email you the file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUI Elite View Post
This is really something that should be clarified better.

+WHP on 220 WHP from a 330 vs 190 WHP from a 325i is a big difference.

It'd be nice to hear if having the 3-stage manifold is still beneficial (or even harmful) from the guys that did so much R&D on it.
I have a 3 stage in mine and here's what Roman told me:
Intake does not matter, you can leave it.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 01:57 PM   #956
InControl
Lieutenant
InControl's Avatar
59
Rep
552
Posts

Drives: '13 328i coupe
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
it's only 6 PSI.. what do you think is going to happen? lol

danger to the manifold!!!!
The DISA manifold is a plastic air chamber with electronic valves that are invoked at specific rpm intervals by opening/closing flaps. FI will amplify the flow. When using FI or turbo, you want to keep the components (manifold) simple since the DISA manifold is complicated and not designed out of resistant materials/parts (flaps and electronic valves) for high/compressed flow. Nothing against running DISA w/out FI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kisho View Post
Here's what Roman told me:
Software will be done via our remote tuning cable. We will email you the file.



I have a 3 stage in mine and here's what Roman told me:
Intake does not matter, you can leave it.
I'm glad he feels confident about it. If it were my car I'd simplify things for the FI. Many have run into issues with DISA w/out any FI. Am yet to see any issues with the standard manifold
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 02:08 PM   #957
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
3940
Rep
7,216
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

except, you're just speculating. 6psi is hardly going to be enough to break the manifold - plastic intake manifolds have been used by BMW for decades without issue (boost or not). the DISA motors don't care, the pressure is going to be the same on both sides of the flap anyway.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 02:12 PM   #958
b-man
Major
b-man's Avatar
United_States
604
Rep
1,090
Posts

Drives: 328xi
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: maine

iTrader: (2)

If the intake doesn't matter, then 325 and 330 should end up with same hp after sc, right?

And 328 should have less hp than 325 (assuming above statement is correct), because 328 has lower compression ratio. Right?
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 02:19 PM   #959
InControl
Lieutenant
InControl's Avatar
59
Rep
552
Posts

Drives: '13 328i coupe
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
except, you're just speculating. 6psi is hardly going to be enough to break the manifold - plastic intake manifolds have been used by BMW for decades without issue (boost or not). the DISA motors don't care, the pressure is going to be the same on both sides of the flap anyway.
And you're not speculating at all
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 02:29 PM   #960
Tom Droze
Major
413
Rep
1,286
Posts

Drives: 2012 BMW 328i (e92)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-man View Post
If the intake doesn't matter, then 325 and 330 should end up with same hp after sc, right?

And 328 should have less hp than 325 (assuming above statement is correct), because 328 has lower compression ratio. Right?
The N51 has 10.0/1 compression and the N52 has 10.7/1 compression. The N51, for emission reasons (super ultra low emissions), was mandated I believe in five states, with California being one of the five. So the 328i used both variations depending on the state it was originally sold in. Both engines are rated at 230 horsepower, but the N51 has the 3-stage intake manifold to offset the difference in compression.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 02:31 PM   #961
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
3940
Rep
7,216
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by InControl View Post
And you're not speculating at all
it's not speculation to say the DISA flaps always have the same amount of manifold pressure on both sides, thus whatever boost pressure you're running is irrelevant. that's a fact.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 02:33 PM   #962
b-man
Major
b-man's Avatar
United_States
604
Rep
1,090
Posts

Drives: 328xi
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: maine

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Droze View Post
The N51 has 10.0/1 compression and the N52 has 10.7/1 compression. The N51, for emission reasons (super ultra low emissions), was mandated I believe in five states, with California being one of the five. So the 328i used both variations depending on the state it was originally sold in. Both engines are rated at 230 horsepower, but the N51 has the 3-stage intake manifold to offset the difference in compression.

Yes, that's exactly what I was asking, since the intake doesn't matter, 328 n51 should have less power with the sc, compared to a 328 n52 with sc.

And again, if intake doesn't matter then 330 and 325 will have similar performance, and sc will put them at the same hp number

And since 328 has lower compression ratio than 325 too, 325 should have more hp then 328 after the sc, because the intake doesn't matter..

Unless Roman meant reliability when he said the intake doesn't matter...
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 03:05 PM   #963
InControl
Lieutenant
InControl's Avatar
59
Rep
552
Posts

Drives: '13 328i coupe
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
it's not speculation to say the DISA flaps always have the same amount of manifold pressure on both sides, thus whatever boost pressure you're running is irrelevant. that's a fact.
If the flaps weren't balanced they'd go kaput. Balanced plastic flaps are subject to load stress and may (or may not) bend. You do what you like to your car
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 03:15 PM   #964
jdpitcher
New Member
0
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bakersfield, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
it's not speculation to say the DISA flaps always have the same amount of manifold pressure on both sides, thus whatever boost pressure you're running is irrelevant. that's a fact.
spec·u·la·tion
ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
1.The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

Until you have proven or been provided real life test results showing no adverse effects on the intake manifold and all of its components (that was designed without the need to support boost pressures),you are speculating. Passing on speculations as truth can cost people a lot of money and make yourself look stupid in the process.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 05:31 PM   #965
rhombus
Capt Rhombus
rhombus's Avatar
United_States
76
Rep
166
Posts

Drives: E46 M3/6, E91 325xi/6
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Blacksburg, VA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
it's not speculation to say the DISA flaps always have the same amount of manifold pressure on both sides, thus whatever boost pressure you're running is irrelevant. that's a fact.
Expanding your point.

The reality is that in naturally aspirated form, the DISA manifold operates at 14.5 psia (psi absolute); what we call atmospheric pressure @ sea level or 0 psig (psi gauge). At Atmospheric pressure, the system works, the designed resonance chambers and DISA flaps work with the engine's resonance frequencies / valve openings at set RPM points.

The intake manifold is more or less a closed system. Increasing the pressure from 14.5 psia to 20 psia (5 psig of boost) will not change the function or operation of the DISA system. The engine still has the same resonance frequencies. The intake manifold and DISA system do not reference ambient pressure to function, making it a closed system. Increasing the intake pressure makes no difference to what is going on in the Intake Manifold or the resonant frequencies of the engine. Think about it, the system also works at both high and low altitude and this is a change in pressure (albeit a small one).

The only function of the intake manifold that is changed by boost pressure is the crank case ventilation system.

Looking forward to getting the kit on my wagon...
__________________
E46 M3 6MT : ESS VT2-575 : Euro Headers : PSS10 : ARC8
F15 35i : MHD EWG, FMIC, 4" ER DP; E70 35i : MHD, ER Downpipe; E53 4.4i : 31.5" BFG K02s on BBS Style 19s

Last edited by rhombus; 10-31-2014 at 06:53 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 08:42 PM   #966
Love The Drive
Second Lieutenant
Love The Drive's Avatar
United_States
34
Rep
205
Posts

Drives: E90 MT N51
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Canyons

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhombus View Post
Expanding your point.

The reality is that in naturally aspirated form, the DISA manifold operates at 14.5 psia (psi absolute); what we call atmospheric pressure @ sea level or 0 psig (psi gauge). At Atmospheric pressure, the system works, the designed resonance chambers and DISA flaps work with the engine's resonance frequencies / valve openings at set RPM points.

The intake manifold is more or less a closed system. Increasing the pressure from 14.5 psia to 20 psia (5 psig of boost) will not change the function or operation of the DISA system. The engine still has the same resonance frequencies. The intake manifold and DISA system do not reference ambient pressure to function, making it a closed system. Increasing the intake pressure makes no difference to what is going on in the Intake Manifold or the resonant frequencies of the engine. Think about it, the system also works at both high and low altitude and this is a change in pressure (albeit a small one).

The only function of the intake manifold that is changed by boost pressure is the crank case ventilation system.

Looking forward to getting the kit on my wagon...
Oh boy, all wheel drive with this thing would be a blast! Please provide feedback if you end up installing it!
__________________
2011 E90 328i | CDV Delete | BMW PE | Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit | 17x9 ET30 APEX ARC-8's | 255/40
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 09:03 PM   #967
rick100
Colonel
551
Rep
2,293
Posts

Drives: 328
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
If it's 80hp max for the 328i, a gain of 310HP is just fine. I just want to know where we sit at with torque as well.
80 is whp which would be around around 110 at crank so crank horsepower would be around 340 , which is higher than the 335 on paper( with not tune).

WHP would be around 280 or less assuming the 328 is making 200 whp ( maybe less)

For me that is a pretty respectable number for the 328... The is 350 , g37 , v6 camaro , v6 mustang and v8 challenger and 335 are around 300-350 HP at crank. Difference would be the 335 with a tune is not match for the rest but I dont see anyone putting a supercharger in their g37 and is350 or the v6 camaro or mustang

I used http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator4.php which is pretty accurate most of the time

It is also nice that their kit would be under 5k , a lot more affordable for a lot of people.

Last edited by rick100; 10-31-2014 at 09:16 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2014, 09:48 PM   #968
DUI Elite
///M at Heart
DUI Elite's Avatar
89
Rep
1,954
Posts

Drives: 06 SGM E90, 15 BSM E84
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by InControl View Post
I think his concern is the use of DISA with the SC. I would suspect you don't want to run DISA and SC at the same time as the DISA is well known to be fragile compared to the standard manifold used on the 328i n52b30.
Nailed it.

I'm not one of the new guys that just learned about the 3 stage manifold swap yesterday, lol.

If what you say is true, then the SC is not compatible (by means of reliability) with 330i's or 328's with N51's. THIS is what I want clarification from Roman on.
__________________

| 3-IM | AA Headers | Eurocharged Stage-3 | BMW PI |
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST