[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by Technic

The SWS-8 worked great in my old MKV GTI front doors and they work great in my Individual Audio System, and counting the times that the sucker is out of stock at a lot of online stores I would say that plenty of customers really like the way they sound, specially in the OEM enclosures.

Just because a lot of something is sold doesn't mean it's good. e.g. Bose.

Yes, audio is very subjective. That's the reason that no matter how many times you repeat that your speakers are an improvement over the OEMs I simply don't see the benefit of replacing the OEM speakers while leaving the major choking point in the system in place: the OEM amp. Right now I'm completely bypassing the "825W DIRAC" OEM amp by having my iDrive output analog instead of digital and the audio quality difference -even while using a bit one processor- is radical. And that's thru the OEM speakers and the SWS-8 woofers.

I'll agree that in cars w/ HiFi, the amp is a major issue. But for many people with Logic7 / DIRAC, a simple speaker upgrade is more than they'll ever need. If I may suggest something radical: reserve judgment until you've heard our Stage 1. If you don't like it after you've heard it, fine -- but dismissing it without experiencing what we've created is unreasonable.

That's the reason that I honestly believe that your company should have rushed that HiFi OEM amp replacement because that's where the real difference in audio quality will be for the money. Because once the mObridge DA2000 MOST converter shows up at a decent price I don't think that your Logic7 speaker replacement set will be selling too much after that.

We'd have liked to have had our OEM amp upgrade out sooner, too, but we have limited resources.

That said, I think you're simply wrong in terms of how the release of a MOST converter will affect sales. It's extremely easy to add an aftermarket amplifier to virtually any vehicle before MOST equipped BMWs, yet those cars make up our most popular products and the vast majority of buyers are absolutely elated with the results. The reality is simple: most people do not want to deal with hacking up their BMW or "making something work" -- nor do they have the skill set to do so.

So we do it for them and make it easy. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The value we offer is NOT revolutionary audio products. That's because good sound is simple and once the principles and the application are well understood, anyone with the time and patience can create excellent sound.

Our value is that we make solutions that take out the guesswork, make it super easy for the end user, and that are guaranteed to exceed expectations or your money back.

Therefore, I am quite confident I will NEVER convince you of the value of our products since you are a purist and clearly interested in doing it yourself and enjoy the process and the time spent. As such, our products don't have any value to you -- and we have no problems with that!

[adc]

Originally Posted by Technic

BMW already offers a pretty neat Alpine OEM amp/speaker upgrade for your 6-speaker system.

Technic, I'm very interested in this - would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by adc

Technic, I'm very interested in this - would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

It is not available yet in the USA, though. I think that Rover Active at eBay can get it for you for a premium.

[UdubBadger]

you'd think people could still find it somehow... like on eBay.uk.co

[discs4sale]

I previously wrote the following post but I have now switched back to BSW Stage 1 for my 2008 E60 (non L7) and probably wait for the BSW amp when it becomes available for cleaner power although the OEM amp seemed to do "fine" with the BSWs. After discussing directly with Micah to help out my situation, I came to believe that something else possibly limiting the sound quality of my sound system. You see guys, I listen primarily to iPod (uncompressed AIFF format) that connects to the BMW factory USB/AUX IN module inside the armrest compartment. When I finally decided to put a CD into the head unit and compared it to the AIFF playback from iPod, there was a significant high frequency rolloff (to my ears) through the AUX IN port. To cut to the chase without going through all my experiments and reasoning, I removed two filtering caps inside the AUX IN module that was filtering the sound and probably put in to protect the BMW stereo from high frequency brightness on MP3 players that would damage speakers if the volume was cranked up, etc. I am now enjoying my BSW Stage 1 since fixing the real problem with the BMW AUX IN implementation. BSW adds more mid-bass to fill in the hole left by the factory midranges and the tweeters cleans up the treble and match the sensitivity of BSW midranges.

I guess no speaker or amp replacement would have taken care of the iPod issue until the AUX IN is taken care.

Thanks Micah.

http://forums.5series.net/index.php?showtopic=89170

Originally Posted by discs4sale

First posting here.

I wanted to chime on the "necessity" on the "all approach to upgrading with BSW Stage 1 speakers for both front and rear channels from my own experience.

I have a 2008 535i (E60) with standard stereo (non L7). I'm not sure if this is what BSW team mean by the "Hifi" version.

When I did the installation, I replaced the front midranges and tweeters first and took a listen. It was immediately obvious the sound was unbalanced with significantly more midrange output in the rear! This meant that the BSW frequency response in the new front installation was very different that the soundstage seemed to be coming from the rear of the car. Using the front/rear fader control to try to balance things out still didn't work since the OEM speakers had a fundamentally different frequency response, not just higher sensitivity/efficiency. People might be calling it the harsh OE sound...more on that later.

I needed to install BSWs on the rear to get the frequency response/sensitivity to match the fronts to get at least the soundstage balanced. However, the general tonal quality now became what I call muffled. I think the midrange/tweeters running by themselves without the underseat woofers might "measure" ok, but when you factor that the underseat woofers are now louder in comparison to the BSW midrange/tweeters, every thing sounds more bass heavy/boomy, not in a good way.

I had spoken to BSW initially when I bought the speakers in Fall 2008 when they were first released. They suggested I turn down to bass control and turn up the treble control to my desired frequency. I don't think that is right approach for a plug'n'play system to get a more flat response. In fact, the tone controls can't compensate to balance the underseat woofer relative to the BSW midrange/tweeter. I think that there needs to be a way to properly attentuate the woofer output to balance the sound.

After recently reviewing the latest threads about L7 vs. Hifi amp SQ, I concur the BSWs probably are more optimized for the L7 amps and don't compensate as well for the Hifi amp. I have trying to reach someone at BSW to confirm if what I am hearing is correct and if there are any options. I am currently back to the OEM midranges/tweeter to get a more balanced low/midrange response. True, the OEM speakers are bit more harsh and I don't get much treble, but they seem more lively without having to tweak the tone controls. I hope to get a resolution from BSW.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by discs4sale

I previously wrote the following post but I have now switched back to BSW Stage 1 for my 2008 E60 (non L7) and probably wait for the BSW amp when it becomes available for cleaner power although the OEM amp seemed to do "fine" with the BSWs. After discussing directly with Micah to help out my situation, I came to believe that something else possibly limiting the sound quality of my sound system. You see guys, I listen primarily to iPod (uncompressed AIFF format) that connects to the BMW factory USB/AUX IN module inside the armrest compartment. When I finally decided to put a CD into the head unit and compared it to the AIFF playback from iPod, there was a significant high frequency rolloff (to my ears) through the AUX IN port. To cut to the chase without going through all my experiments and reasoning, I removed two filtering caps inside the AUX IN module that was filtering the sound and probably put in to protect the BMW stereo from high frequency brightness on MP3 players that would damage speakers if the volume was cranked up, etc. I am now enjoying my BSW Stage 1 since fixing the real problem with the BMW AUX IN implementation. BSW adds more mid-bass to fill in the hole left by the factory midranges and the tweeters cleans up the treble and match the sensitivity of BSW midranges.

I guess no speaker or amp replacement would have taken care of the iPod issue until the AUX IN is taken care.

Thanks Micah.

http://forums.5series.net/index.php?showtopic=89170

The HiFi OEM amp in your 5 Series powers only the underseat woofers (2-ch). The rest of the speakers are powered by the M-ASK/iDrive unit (4-ch). An OEM amp upgrade in your 5 Series will involve adding those 6 signals together to create a full signal and then a de-EQ processor will be required to flatten that response if you really want to get rid of any OEM EQ curve.

This is not the same HiFi system as in the 1- or 3-Series.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Alan, thanks for coming in and letting folks know about the difference you experienced. Confirms what we thought which was that something was "off" but unidentified. I must admit I feel a little dumb forgetting to ask about the input source. Suppose being human has its downsides.

Glad you're happier with the kit now that the signal issues are resolved.

Originally Posted by discs4sale

I previously wrote the following post but I have now switched back to BSW Stage 1 for my 2008 E60 (non L7) and probably wait for the BSW amp when it becomes available for cleaner power although the OEM amp seemed to do "fine" with the BSWs. After discussing directly with Micah to help out my situation, I came to believe that something else possibly limiting the sound quality of my sound system. You see guys, I listen primarily to iPod (uncompressed AIFF format) that connects to the BMW factory USB/AUX IN module inside the armrest compartment. When I finally decided to put a CD into the head unit and compared it to the AIFF playback from iPod, there was a significant high frequency rolloff (to my ears) through the AUX IN port. To cut to the chase without going through all my experiments and reasoning, I removed two filtering caps inside the AUX IN module that was filtering the sound and probably put in to protect the BMW stereo from high frequency brightness on MP3 players that would damage speakers if the volume was cranked up, etc. I am now enjoying my BSW Stage 1 since fixing the real problem with the BMW AUX IN implementation. BSW adds more mid-bass to fill in the hole left by the factory midranges and the tweeters cleans up the treble and match the sensitivity of BSW midranges.

I guess no speaker or amp replacement would have taken care of the iPod issue until the AUX IN is taken care.

Thanks Micah.

http://forums.5series.net/index.php?showtopic=89170

[discs4sale]

Originally Posted by Technic

The HiFi OEM amp in your 5 Series powers only the underseat woofers (2-ch). The rest of the speakers are powered by the M-ASK/iDrive unit (4-ch). An OEM amp upgrade in your 5 Series will involve adding those 6 signals together to create a full signal and then a de-EQ processor will be required to flatten that response if you really want to get rid of any OEM EQ curve.

This is not the same HiFi system as in the 1- or 3-Series.

Technic,

Thanks for your input. Do you know for a fact that E60 non logic-7 amp output is EQ'd to drive the midrange/tweeter combination ? I was hoping that the front and rear speaker outputs from head unit are flat enough that I could intercept them, feed them to a LOC and then to a 4 channel amp for cleaner power. I there was an EQ curved applied, I would be amplifier the EQ curve to my speakers.

Alan

[adc]

Originally Posted by Technic

It is not available yet in the USA, though. I think that Rover Active at eBay can get it for you for a premium.

Bummer. I've looked at the installation instructions and it's not complicated.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by discs4sale

Technic,

Thanks for your input. Do you know for a fact that E60 non logic-7 amp output is EQ'd to drive the midrange/tweeter combination ? I was hoping that the front and rear speaker outputs from head unit are flat enough that I could intercept them, feed them to a LOC and then to a 4 channel amp for cleaner power. I there was an EQ curved applied, I would be amplifier the EQ curve to my speakers.

Alan

VP Electricity measured that response and I don't have any doubts about its accuracy as I noticed that in the case of the 3-Series Stereo system (similar to the E60 HiFi configuration but no OEM amp at all) the rear outputs are high passed at the OEM HU/iDrive. So it is not unusual for the actual OEM unit to do some filtering/EQ processing with the high level outputs.

If you like your current OEM component response then an extra amplification should not be a concern to you.

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by adc

Bummer. I've looked at the installation instructions and it's not complicated.

it only includes 1 set of speakers though... that sucks.

[adc]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

it only includes 1 set of speakers though... that sucks.

Yes, however - all parts have separate part numbers and at least in Europe should be obtainable individually.

61 12 0 445 686 Wiring harness
65 13 0 445 687 Mid-range loudspeaker
65 13 0 445 688 Tweeter
65 13 0 445 689 Frequency-crossover netw.
65 41 0 445 683 Audio-Amplifier

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by discs4sale

Do you know for a fact that E60 non logic-7 amp output is EQ'd to drive the midrange/tweeter combination ?

The Speaker output from the M-ASK is EQ'd. It is mostly a happy face, not a roller coaster like the E9x Hi-Fi output, and if I had to, I would do it without de-EQ-ing. It was not an Auto-Loudness function, still plenty of curve left at higher outputs.

The sub output has more peakiness and some high-pass 'subsonic' action. IIRC the speaker output from the sub amp was where that was done. The balanced out from the M-ASk was not EQ'd. I believe it was xover filtered, though.

http://oeintegration.hcpstl.com/showthread.php?t=13

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by adc

Yes, however - all parts have separate part numbers and at least in Europe should be obtainable individually.

61 12 0 445 686 Wiring harness
65 13 0 445 687 Mid-range loudspeaker
65 13 0 445 688 Tweeter
65 13 0 445 689 Frequency-crossover netw.
65 41 0 445 683 Audio-Amplifier

ahhhhhh

anyone got prices on this stuff or do I need to put Evan @ Tischer to work?

[adc]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

ahhhhhh

anyone got prices on this stuff or do I need to put Evan @ Tischer to work?

Just keep in mind that these Alpine units (at least the mids, can't really tell with the tweets) look similar to the M Premium Audio items. I've priced the Premium ones on Tischer's site and it comes to around $265 for the fronts (a little less for the rears).

So if the Alpines can be obtained for significantly less then it's all good.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

ahhhhhh

anyone got prices on this stuff or do I need to put Evan @ Tischer to work?

Those are European P/N and this OEM amp kit apply only to MY2010 USA 1- and 3-Series with the new standard Stereo system.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by adc

Just keep in mind that these Alpine units (at least the mids, can't really tell with the tweets) look similar to the M Premium Audio items. I've priced the Premium ones on Tischer's site and it comes to around $265 for the fronts (a little less for the rears).

So if the Alpines can be obtained for significantly less then it's all good.

Those are Logic7 drivers (mid/tweeter), not Individual Audio.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Technic

Those are Logic7 drivers (mid/tweeter), not Individual Audio.

So the Alpine drivers are the L7 items... interesting. That means the price should be significantly less than the Individual Audio items...

Thanks!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by adc

So the Alpine drivers are the L7 items... interesting. That means the price should be significantly less than the Individual Audio items...

Thanks!

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182752

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by Technic

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182752

so thats only about $500 for what he got... figure about $700-800 for a full set

[Technic]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

so thats only about $500 for what he got... figure about $700-800 for a full set

Just to be clear: this OEM amp kit only applies to the USA MY2010 3-Series Stereo system. So there's no "$700-$800" full set as no rear OEM speakers are upgraded nor this kit applies to any current HiFi OEM system.

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by Technic

Just to be clear: this OEM amp kit only applies to the USA MY2010 3-Series Stereo system. So there's no "$700-$800" full set as no rear OEM speakers are upgraded nor this kit applies to any current HiFi OEM system.

yeah i saw that on the last page, bummer. Good thing is if I get a 1 next year I can snag it. (same stereo right?)