[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Considering dealing with the "turd" in my new 328i ... really unimpressed with the sound quality. This is the third new car in a row I've had to deal with uninspiring audio (the last one had the infamous no highs, no lows ... must be Bose).

However, I am very swayed by the relative ease of the BSW Stage 1. A couple of questions that I think I know the answer to, but if you want to weigh in Micah, that would be great. Will the Amp be as relatively plug and play as the Stage 1? I note your comments about not completely optimizing the Stage 1 for the OEM amp ... will the new Amp bring the best out of the Stage 1 speakers?

Yes and yes. 100% plug and play, Stage 1 will absolutely blow you away w/ new amp.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Yes and yes. 100% plug and play, Stage 1 will absolutely blow you away w/ new amp.

Is this comment valid for non-L7 cars or are you designing a replacement for L7 cars?

I have HiFi and am looking to upgrade. But I don't want to butcher the car.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by shag

Is this comment valid for non-L7 cars or are you designing a replacement for L7 cars?

I have HiFi and am looking to upgrade. But I don't want to butcher the car.

Non-L7 cars (HiFi). Logic7 vehicles present a greater challenge due to fiberoptic connection. We do have plans for an amplifier for that car at some point but we are not currently working on a replacement.

With the HiFi cars, development is in progress.

[325xi-06]

okey here is what i want to buy

the jl 6600g amp.

and a pair of Rainbow SLC 210.25 NG 4" components or Rainbow CS210P Component

and the sws-8xi

and can i follow this link to make it work ? http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=163804&page=3

what else do i need to make it work ? can i use the same amp kit a this guy ?

but only that i am gonna use the same wire that are to the speakers...

[T7R_Sky]

Originally Posted by 325xi-06

okey here is what i want to buy

the jl 6600g amp.

and a pair of Rainbow SLC 210.25 NG 4" components or Rainbow CS210P Component

and the sws-8xi

and can i follow this link to make it work ? http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=163804&page=3

what else do i need to make it work ? can i use the same amp kit a this guy ?

but only that i am gonna use the same wire that are to the speakers...

Wrong thread, but i just finished doing an install similiar to this (i havent done the Rainbow's yet) and you're gonne be really happy with it!

[shag]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Non-L7 cars (HiFi). Logic7 vehicles present a greater challenge due to fiberoptic connection. We do have plans for an amplifier for that car at some point but we are not currently working on a replacement.

With the HiFi cars, development is in progress.

Need any beta testers?

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by shag

Need any beta testers?

Not in Montreal. Almost all of our development work is done in So Cal and Atlanta. We'll be dealing with local customers -- so if anyone in So Cal is reading this and wants to be on a beta test list, contact me directly via email at mdc AT bavsound DOT com.

[memento]

darn. I'm in NY.

Micah, thanks for popping in here! I've installed aftermarket systems in all my cars for the past 20+ years, but I'm a bit reluctant to start hacking apart my E90 BMW. Keep up posted to the progress of the amp. I will be keeping an eye out for it! full plug-n-play is the best.

[Micah D. Cranman]

We'll certainly keep you guys posted on progress!

[atk350]

Will the amp you are designing fit in the same spot as the OEM and be relatively the same size?

BTW I purchased a stage 1 upgrade for an E36 and was much impressed by the sound quality over stock (my OEM speakers had deteriorated and buzzed when played) But I too wished there was a plug and play amp I could have added to this car. Now my girlfriend is driving this car with better sound than my stock E90 non L7

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by atk350

Will the amp you are designing fit in the same spot as the OEM and be relatively the same size?

BTW I purchased a stage 1 upgrade for an E36 and was much impressed by the sound quality over stock (my OEM speakers had deteriorated and buzzed when played) But I too wished there was a plug and play amp I could have added to this car. Now my girlfriend is driving this car with better sound than my stock E90 non L7

Yes, that's the goal. We'd like to stay within the same size limits so that there is no visible evidence of our product in the vehicle. However, if we can't get the performance we want in a close enough form factor, we may install the amp in the subfloor underneath the carpeting where there's lots of extra room. Either way, it'll be hidden.

[ken530i]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Yes, that's the goal. We'd like to stay within the same size limits so that there is no visible evidence of our product in the vehicle. However, if we can't get the performance we want in a close enough form factor, we may install the amp in the subfloor underneath the carpeting where there's lots of extra room. Either way, it'll be hidden.

I see you have now posted on your website the PnP amp @ $699, with an email signup for future advisement of status. The info says the amp will go to 50Wpc. My question is, what are you going to be doing to the sub 5/6 channel? Wattage? This will be a 6 channel amp upgrade, right?

Thanks!

Ken

[Micah D. Cranman]

Specs are tentative and subject to change, but yes, should be around 50W per channel.

The amplifier will probably be only a 4 channel with a separate amplifier for the subwoofer channels.

[DigitalDawn]

Micah,

Are you working on an E93 subwoofer kit? I'm picking up my 2010 E93 this Friday, and I would love to upgrade the subs.

[Micah D. Cranman]

If it's a 325, 328, or 330, we already have one:

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...m-E90-E91-E92/

If it's a 335 or M3, we are working on a system, yes. Direct-fit replacement woofers for under the front seats + amplifier upgrade. We'd like it to be PnP, and eventually it will be but may not be initially. Depending on how development goes, we may also replace OEM enclosures. ETA to be determined.

[Pagnobito]

It sounds like the amplifier and speaker upgrades planned to be in development concurrently, but the amp slipped because going by the speaker design they are placed at the higher end specification and designed up front to be driven by a higher quality amp than the OEM one. Any good speaker manufacturer strives for flatter response curves and that is where the development and material cost goes.

I would be interested in a complete upgrade, but my car has just 4 x 4" speakers and the underseat ones so sounds quite bad, certainly compared to the new Audi A4 with Bang and Olufson. Ideally I would like the driving characteristics of the BMW and the B&O system from the Audi. I guess you might not have heard of B&O in the States, but it is a very high spec company.

Anyway for my 335d (diesel is another motor you might not have, but is quicker than the 330i) I am wondering if the chassis is the same as the 335i (twin mufflers) therefore the hole in the trunk under carpet is smaller?

I am hoping you might have a solution in the pipeline to replace the six speakers, new amp and in some way add the tweeters and enclosures or I get the OEM tweeter enclosures myself, and be able to ship them to the UK?

PS the salesman that I bought the car from said he was happy with the sound in the car I tested (standard 6 speakers, no tweeters), when I said I like great sound and spent 8K GBP on my home cinema amp, dvd player and speakers he said he had Bose at home and was very impressed. hmmm. Maybe shoulda bought the Audi if it was just the sound quality I was after..

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Pagnobito

It sounds like the amplifier and speaker upgrades planned to be in development concurrently, but the amp slipped because going by the speaker design they are placed at the higher end specification and designed up front to be driven by a higher quality amp than the OEM one. Any good speaker manufacturer strives for flatter response curves and that is where the development and material cost goes.

I would be interested in a complete upgrade, but my car has just 4 x 4" speakers and the underseat ones so sounds quite bad, certainly compared to the new Audi A4 with Bang and Olufson. Ideally I would like the driving characteristics of the BMW and the B&O system from the Audi. I guess you might not have heard of B&O in the States, but it is a very high spec company.

Anyway for my 335d (diesel is another motor you might not have, but is quicker than the 330i) I am wondering if the chassis is the same as the 335i (twin mufflers) therefore the hole in the trunk under carpet is smaller?

I am hoping you might have a solution in the pipeline to replace the six speakers, new amp and in some way add the tweeters and enclosures or I get the OEM tweeter enclosures myself, and be able to ship them to the UK?

PS the salesman that I bought the car from said he was happy with the sound in the car I tested (standard 6 speakers, no tweeters), when I said I like great sound and spent 8K GBP on my home cinema amp, dvd player and speakers he said he had Bose at home and was very impressed. hmmm. Maybe shoulda bought the Audi if it was just the sound quality I was after..

BMW already offers a pretty neat Alpine OEM amp/speaker upgrade for your 6-speaker system.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by Pagnobito

It sounds like the amplifier and speaker upgrades planned to be in development concurrently, but the amp slipped because going by the speaker design they are placed at the higher end specification and designed up front to be driven by a higher quality amp than the OEM one. Any good speaker manufacturer strives for flatter response curves and that is where the development and material cost goes.

I would be interested in a complete upgrade, but my car has just 4 x 4" speakers and the underseat ones so sounds quite bad, certainly compared to the new Audi A4 with Bang and Olufson. Ideally I would like the driving characteristics of the BMW and the B&O system from the Audi. I guess you might not have heard of B&O in the States, but it is a very high spec company.

Anyway for my 335d (diesel is another motor you might not have, but is quicker than the 330i) I am wondering if the chassis is the same as the 335i (twin mufflers) therefore the hole in the trunk under carpet is smaller?

I am hoping you might have a solution in the pipeline to replace the six speakers, new amp and in some way add the tweeters and enclosures or I get the OEM tweeter enclosures myself, and be able to ship them to the UK?

PS the salesman that I bought the car from said he was happy with the sound in the car I tested (standard 6 speakers, no tweeters), when I said I like great sound and spent 8K GBP on my home cinema amp, dvd player and speakers he said he had Bose at home and was very impressed. hmmm. Maybe shoulda bought the Audi if it was just the sound quality I was after..

Actually, no -- we always design our speaker upgrades to work well with the OEM amplifier, but of course there are design compromises that are required if you are making them in such a way that they'll perform well with an aftermarket amplifier, too.

For 2010, it appears BMW has made available in the U.S. the same "base" audio system found outside the U.S. - 4 x 4" midranges + 2 underseat woofers. So, we are indeed currently developing a speaker upgrade as well as an amplifier upgrade for that application.

For the record, we do have B&O and the 335d here in the States. Unfortunately, Bose, too.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by Technic

BMW already offers a pretty neat Alpine OEM amp/speaker upgrade for your 6-speaker system.

Given that this uses Logic7 midranges w/ TERRIFYING upper midrange breakup characteristics due to their metal cone / straight cone design, I can't see recommending this to anyone.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Given that this uses Logic7 midranges w/ TERRIFYING upper midrange breakup characteristics due to their metal cone / straight cone design, I can't see recommending this to anyone.

Hyperbole in a technical forum is never a good thing, Micah... so far this Alpine OEM seems not to have any built-in EQ (it is an off the shelf 4-ch Alpine amp prep'ed for OEM duty), and the Logic7 speakers seems to be pretty good speakers once they are fed real/flat power. So this OEM upgrade is a good and inexpensive way of staying OEM while improving the sound. Of course, replacing the underseat 6.5" woofers with SWS-8 will definitely make it even better.

I do understand that your business is to sell your speakers, however there are other options out there that simply are comparable and even better than any of your systems for even less money. And this OEM upgrade is one of those options.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by Technic

Hyperbole in a technical forum is never a good thing, Micah... so far this Alpine OEM seems not to have any built-in EQ (it is an off the shelf 4-ch Alpine amp prep'ed for OEM duty), and the Logic7 speakers seems to be pretty good speakers once they are fed real/flat power. So this OEM upgrade is a good and inexpensive way of staying OEM while improving the sound. Of course, replacing the underseat 6.5" woofers with SWS-8 will definitely make it even better.

I do understand that your business is to sell your speakers, however there are other options out there that simply are comparable and even better than any of your systems for even less money. And this OEM upgrade is one of those options.

The upper midrange response issues of the Logic7 drivers are not a function of the EQ -- it's a product of the shape / design of the aluminum cone drivers, and unless they are properly crossed over I don't believe they are the best solution due to the extremely harsh breakup response they have in the upper midrange.

I have readily admitted that there are better solutions out there for less money than our product provided you have the skill set required to select the right components and perform the install. Yes, this is a simple to install upgrade, but it's going to result in similar issues as the Logic7 cars. For some it might be a better solution than our products -- but I don't think it is.

With regards to the SWS-8 woofers, I can't possibly see how you could recommend that woofer. The overall design is good, but we tested multiple units and on almost none was the magnet properly saturated, yielding an almost monotone frequency response. They sound really, really bad.

Alas, audio is subjective I suppose.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

With regards to the SWS-8 woofers, I can't possibly see how you could recommend that woofer. The overall design is good, but we tested multiple units and on almost none was the magnet properly saturated, yielding an almost monotone frequency response. They sound really, really bad.

Alas, audio is subjective I suppose.

The SWS-8 worked great in my old MKV GTI front doors and they work great in my Individual Audio System, and counting the times that the sucker is out of stock at a lot of online stores I would say that plenty of customers really like the way they sound, specially in the OEM enclosures.

Yes, audio is very subjective. That's the reason that no matter how many times you repeat that your speakers are an improvement over the OEMs I simply don't see the benefit of replacing the OEM speakers while leaving the major choking point in the system in place: the OEM amp. Right now I'm completely bypassing the "825W DIRAC" OEM amp by having my iDrive output analog instead of digital and the audio quality difference -even while using a bit one processor- is radical. And that's thru the OEM speakers and the SWS-8 woofers.

That's the reason that I honestly believe that your company should have rushed that HiFi OEM amp replacement because that's where the real difference in audio quality will be for the money. Because once the mObridge DA2000 MOST converter shows up at a decent price I don't think that your Logic7 speaker replacement set will be selling too much after that.