[FeeBear]

"The Bible was translated...so what? The Bible does not belong to one country or language. Bad analogy dude. And show me where the National Anthem has been translated in every language. LOL"

Actually it is not a bad analogy. Religion belong to the people in power. The powerful and rich controlled the masses through religion. We kill more people in the name of God than another reason. The Christian Bible was in latin for a very long time until Protestants changed that. Hell Catholic masses were still spoken in latin until the Late 1960's. Hell many of "symbols" of the US is in Latin or haven't you notice?

Show me where in the US Constitution it says that we must Speak English. Show me a law that states that a symbol of this nation/sayings/document must not be translated? I agree that if you don't speak the language you will be hindered in life in the US but you don't move people from one culture to another overnight. The American Culture is a mix of every other culture in the World.

As far as Schools in this country that only speak spanish, well you have it a little off. Kids have the right to an education, if they come from a foreign country they shouldn't have their education halted because of language. They should be allowed to continue learning Science and History in their language and learn English at the same time, which is what I have seen being done.

To answer your question I learned the Nation Anthem in Spanish because Spanish was my Native language, I first read the US Consititution in Spanish also. I was born in NYC but I learn to read and write at home.

If you are worried about learning Spanish in the US, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Even if the majority of people in 50 years are Hispanic descent our fore-fathers have never really left much power to the common people. Power is still wielded but a few powerful people.

Being the fact that 1 out of evey 5 people on this earth speak a Chinese Dialect. Worry more of speaking Chinese/Mandrin/Catonese.

Tenchi, I am surprise in the world we live in today you'd think that people's religious beliefs are a laughing matter. Patriotism is strong with most people but religion is what bonds them with each other.

[BellasBmw]

I just think that if your gonna give one immigrant group citizenship, then why not all the others? I mean europe does have a restriction to enter this country. My uncle was born in italy, lived here for 20 years, and decided to move back to italy. He never obtained his citizenship, only his green card. Well now that hes back in italy, the US wont let him live here again. He can only come back for 6 months at a time. So, i just think its unfair to do it for 1 group but not the others.

[magmd]

1. Its called filing for entry into the US. Most of us immigrants have gone through this process. If they want to be legal, go through what most of us had to Yes..I agree. There should be a much better way to help people trying to come across the US/Mexico border do so legally. Since they are our biggest influx due to proximity as you have stated, why should we not invest time, money, resources, to help streamline and improve the system. And, what do you plan to do with those that are already here???

2. See answer for 1. Ditto...what do you propose to do with those that are already here???

3. Because unfortunately, because of the close proximity of Mexico and other Latin American countries, the problem lies with Hispanics. I feel the same way about illegal chinese immigration too.Yes, US/Mexico border is the largest problem..but not due to the hispanic people. Its due to the US/Mexico political relations. What does the US expect, they want to open up the borders for trade agreements and set up US companies to utilize Mexican soil to make larger profits by using cheaper labor force. The border become porous and lower class citizens decide they want to come to the US. And immigrants from around the world...make their way to Mexico and eventually here. Its a problem with the US and Mexican governments that cannot agree on how to handle the issue. Don't blame the people.
4. There is no proof that illegal immigration from Canada, although there is illegal immigration, makes up even a tiny fraction of the illegal immigration from the south of the border. Also, Minutemen are very active on the northern borders as well. This just plain does not make any sense. No proof of illegal immigration through Canada, yet active minutemen. And see your response for #5. I am just pointing out that there is illegal immigration that happens via the US/Canadian border...yet no one says its a Canadian problem. As you stated....no proof?? Or no proof that you want to recognize.

5. I agree that this is an illegal immigration problem and not a Mexican problem. I don't care if you are Chinese, Indian, Mexican, Jamaican, French, etc etc.... if you are illegally here in the US, then you are illegally here in the US. There are thousands of illegal immigrants that stem from other countries than Mexico. Matter in fact, there was a recent bust on an Indian group in Canada that was smuggling Indian and Pakistani nationals into the US. Well, what do you know...please see my response for #4.
6. They do provide for education? In some areas they do have Spanish only schools which is a problem because unless they learn to speak English they are not going to be very productive. Unless you are asking us to learn Spanish. See this is where you are getting confused. They have spanish only schools because there are a large number of LEGAL immigrants, and NATURALIZED US citizens of Mexican and Latin American decent. There was a strong Amnesty program that allowed many to gain legal status in the late 70's and early 80's. Even so...there are many who never learned English, and hence their children never learn any English. How is one to succeed in school as a child when your parents cannot provide you any assitance with homework. Cannot read to you or help you learn the alphabet..in English. I wonder how much assitance many of you received from your parents during the grades K-4. Ever wonder how different it would have been if your parents did not speak any of the language that you are immersed in at school. YEs, you would pick it up...but you would definitely not be able to keep up with your classmates. Sure...that is equality. This is an immigrant issue....not an illegal immigrant issue. The program was called bilingual education. I went through it. I did not learn English until 4th grade. But I was able to be educated, learn the alphabet, learn concepts of mathematics, spelling, reading, etc. Then I transitioned into English speaking education...and guess what...I did not really need much help in the other subjects, because math, etc. is not particularly language dependent. That is the whole freaking point!
7. I have no problem fighting for human rights for those illegal immigrants...IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. We don't have money. How noble of us. We should impart our views on other countries, tell them how to treat their people, and spend tons of $$ going to war. But if any come here....well, that is crossing the line. We have no $$ or interest in human rights of foreigners in our own land. We just want to go to their land and make a mess of things.

Dude, where have you been? Welfare, which is for US CITIZENS, is a drain on the US economy and in some areas, the local governments are unable to provide the necessary services to those on welfare. Yes...so how is this problem relavent to the illegals if they are not a part of this. People so easily take the problems of this country and use them as a way to rationalize mistreatment of a segment of the population. Where have I been? Well, I have been watching lazy US citizens drain the US economy and then blame all immigrants (legal or not) about the insufficiencies of our systems.

8. I agree that employers should be held more liable for hiring illegals. However, that just does what you have been complaining about...denying illegals jobs and money. I agree. We need to go after these employers, and slowly this will lessen desires of future illegal immigrants to gain refuge here. However, that leaves the problem of what to do for those that are already here...as you so quickly noticed. So, please go back to #1. We need to create a process to legitimize those that are already here. Not just simply deny them everything.

9. How can they affect education and medical systems? Lets see, by adding on to the already overburded education and medical system?Yes, their children need to be educated. Yes, they are illegal...but many of their children are US born. Ever try to enroll a child into school that whose parents have no legal paperwork? The problem of an overburdened education system is not an immigrant created problem. We should focus on fixing the inherent problems of our education system, not by cry about a small percentage of people nationwide that are joining it. Sure, you can correctly argue that they contribute to the problem, but don't blame immigrants for these problems.

By Law, hospitals cannot turn away ppl in need of emergency care and you bet your bottom dollar illegals use emergency services. So you are ok with this? Imagine they told you that the only medical care you can seek is to go to the ER. Imagine that the only time you see a physician, is when you are medically in need of an emergency. What if you have Hypertension, diabetes, hypercholesterolemia. Or guess what...you are pregnant and can't get routine prenatal care. Imagine you cannot get any prescription medicine for chronic diseases because you cannot have a primary care physician. You cannot see anyone for preventive care. Imagine how sick and uncontrolled these people are by the time they qualify to obtain emergency medical care? I have seen many train wreck patients come by the ER...trust me, it is not pretty. Many will not live very long thereafter. The law provides for ER care...but no routine care. As a physician, I am not OK with that.

10. We do have a system. Thousands of people migrate to this country LEGALLY. I WAS ONE OF THEM. We cannot kill them but we sure can deport them. They are not here legally. Not legally means against the law. STOP TRYING TO MAKE THEIR PROBLEMS MY PROBLEMS. We already have enough of our own. Look, I agree with you 100% that we cannot just allow illegal immigration to continue. It is against the law, therefore the term illegal. However, our current system does not work. That is the whole point. There needs to be reform that is much better thought out than our current system. We can't kill them, obviously. And unfortunately...its not so simple to just deport them either. They have already been here, integrated into the society. They have children that are US citizens. What do we do with those kids...send them to a foreign land? Put them in foster care? We need to create a whole new program for those that are already here. So what do we do in the meantime? Deny them all rights/services because the US as a country has failed to regulate their influx? I am not trying to make any problems for you in particular. I am concerned about their well-being, because as a healthcare provider, I see the injustice. Its just plain sad that many just ignore it.

[magmd]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

So its official, my mom has to close the restaurant tomororw cause the dish washer and food prep arent coming in. So the only people that will be working tomorrow are me, my mom, and the delivery driver. We cant stay open because if we are busy, then theres no way my mom can cook, prepare, and help me serve. HOWEVER, this doesnt show how much we need them, it just so happens that my brother who is the main chef is out of town. So bad timing. But now i dont work, and no money for me. :mad:

I overlooked this. I am sorry to hear about your family being affected like this. Although I agree with the basic motives of this movement, I disagree with people not showing up to work without permission, and kids not going to school. This is just plain counter productive. I am all for people protesting and boycotting for what they believe in, but bottom line...we all have responsibilities that we cannot just throw out the window, and opportunities- like education, that we cannot afford to waste.

With that...I am retiring from this thread. I apologize if I insulted any of you along the way.

[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by FeeBear

"The Bible was translated...so what? The Bible does not belong to one country or language. Bad analogy dude. And show me where the National Anthem has been translated in every language. LOL"

Actually it is not a bad analogy. Religion belong to the people in power. The powerful and rich controlled the masses through religion. We kill more people in the name of God than another reason. The Christian Bible was in latin for a very long time until Protestants changed that. Hell Catholic masses were still spoken in latin until the Late 1960's. Hell many of "symbols" of the US is in Latin or haven't you notice?

Show me where in the US Constitution it says that we must Speak English. Show me a law that states that a symbol of this nation/sayings/document must not be translated? I agree that if you don't speak the language you will be hindered in life in the US but you don't move people from one culture to another overnight. The American Culture is a mix of every other culture in the World.

As far as Schools in this country that only speak spanish, well you have it a little off. Kids have the right to an education, if they come from a foreign country they shouldn't have their education halted because of language. They should be allowed to continue learning Science and History in their language and learn English at the same time, which is what I have seen being done.

To answer your question I learned the Nation Anthem in Spanish because Spanish was my Native language, I first read the US Consititution in Spanish also. I was born in NYC but I learn to read and write at home.

If you are worried about learning Spanish in the US, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Even if the majority of people in 50 years are Hispanic descent our fore-fathers have never really left much power to the common people. Power is still wielded but a few powerful people.

Being the fact that 1 out of evey 5 people on this earth speak a Chinese Dialect. Worry more of speaking Chinese/Mandrin/Catonese.

Tenchi, I am surprise in the world we live in today you'd think that people's religious beliefs are a laughing matter. Patriotism is strong with most people but religion is what bonds them with each other.

I am a protestant FYI.


And no, it is not a good analogy to use. Yes religion is for everyone. Religion has no boundaries. THE US DOES.

[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by magmd

1. Its called filing for entry into the US. Most of us immigrants have gone through this process. If they want to be legal, go through what most of us had to Yes..I agree. There should be a much better way to help people trying to come across the US/Mexico border do so legally. Since they are our biggest influx due to proximity as you have stated, why should we not invest time, money, resources, to help streamline and improve the system. And, what do you plan to do with those that are already here???

2. See answer for 1. Ditto...what do you propose to do with those that are already here???

3. Because unfortunately, because of the close proximity of Mexico and other Latin American countries, the problem lies with Hispanics. I feel the same way about illegal chinese immigration too.Yes, US/Mexico border is the largest problem..but not due to the hispanic people. Its due to the US/Mexico political relations. What does the US expect, they want to open up the borders for trade agreements and set up US companies to utilize Mexican soil to make larger profits by using cheaper labor force. The border become porous and lower class citizens decide they want to come to the US. And immigrants from around the world...make their way to Mexico and eventually here. Its a problem with the US and Mexican governments that cannot agree on how to handle the issue. Don't blame the people.
4. There is no proof that illegal immigration from Canada, although there is illegal immigration, makes up even a tiny fraction of the illegal immigration from the south of the border. Also, Minutemen are very active on the northern borders as well. This just plain does not make any sense. No proof of illegal immigration through Canada, yet active minutemen. And see your response for #5. I am just pointing out that there is illegal immigration that happens via the US/Canadian border...yet no one says its a Canadian problem. As you stated....no proof?? Or no proof that you want to recognize.

5. I agree that this is an illegal immigration problem and not a Mexican problem. I don't care if you are Chinese, Indian, Mexican, Jamaican, French, etc etc.... if you are illegally here in the US, then you are illegally here in the US. There are thousands of illegal immigrants that stem from other countries than Mexico. Matter in fact, there was a recent bust on an Indian group in Canada that was smuggling Indian and Pakistani nationals into the US. Well, what do you know...please see my response for #4.
6. They do provide for education? In some areas they do have Spanish only schools which is a problem because unless they learn to speak English they are not going to be very productive. Unless you are asking us to learn Spanish. See this is where you are getting confused. They have spanish only schools because there are a large number of LEGAL immigrants, and NATURALIZED US citizens of Mexican and Latin American decent. There was a strong Amnesty program that allowed many to gain legal status in the late 70's and early 80's. Even so...there are many who never learned English, and hence their children never learn any English. How is one to succeed in school as a child when your parents cannot provide you any assitance with homework. Cannot read to you or help you learn the alphabet..in English. I wonder how much assitance many of you received from your parents during the grades K-4. Ever wonder how different it would have been if your parents did not speak any of the language that you are immersed in at school. YEs, you would pick it up...but you would definitely not be able to keep up with your classmates. Sure...that is equality. This is an immigrant issue....not an illegal immigrant issue. The program was called bilingual education. I went through it. I did not learn English until 4th grade. But I was able to be educated, learn the alphabet, learn concepts of mathematics, spelling, reading, etc. Then I transitioned into English speaking education...and guess what...I did not really need much help in the other subjects, because math, etc. is not particularly language dependent. That is the whole freaking point!
7. I have no problem fighting for human rights for those illegal immigrants...IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. We don't have money. How noble of us. We should impart our views on other countries, tell them how to treat their people, and spend tons of $$ going to war. But if any come here....well, that is crossing the line. We have no $$ or interest in human rights of foreigners in our own land. We just want to go to their land and make a mess of things.

Dude, where have you been? Welfare, which is for US CITIZENS, is a drain on the US economy and in some areas, the local governments are unable to provide the necessary services to those on welfare. Yes...so how is this problem relavent to the illegals if they are not a part of this. People so easily take the problems of this country and use them as a way to rationalize mistreatment of a segment of the population. Where have I been? Well, I have been watching lazy US citizens drain the US economy and then blame all immigrants (legal or not) about the insufficiencies of our systems.

8. I agree that employers should be held more liable for hiring illegals. However, that just does what you have been complaining about...denying illegals jobs and money. I agree. We need to go after these employers, and slowly this will lessen desires of future illegal immigrants to gain refuge here. However, that leaves the problem of what to do for those that are already here...as you so quickly noticed. So, please go back to #1. We need to create a process to legitimize those that are already here. Not just simply deny them everything.

9. How can they affect education and medical systems? Lets see, by adding on to the already overburded education and medical system?Yes, their children need to be educated. Yes, they are illegal...but many of their children are US born. Ever try to enroll a child into school that whose parents have no legal paperwork? The problem of an overburdened education system is not an immigrant created problem. We should focus on fixing the inherent problems of our education system, not by cry about a small percentage of people nationwide that are joining it. Sure, you can correctly argue that they contribute to the problem, but don't blame immigrants for these problems.

By Law, hospitals cannot turn away ppl in need of emergency care and you bet your bottom dollar illegals use emergency services. So you are ok with this? Imagine they told you that the only medical care you can seek is to go to the ER. Imagine that the only time you see a physician, is when you are medically in need of an emergency. What if you have Hypertension, diabetes, hypercholesterolemia. Or guess what...you are pregnant and can't get routine prenatal care. Imagine you cannot get any prescription medicine for chronic diseases because you cannot have a primary care physician. You cannot see anyone for preventive care. Imagine how sick and uncontrolled these people are by the time they qualify to obtain emergency medical care? I have seen many train wreck patients come by the ER...trust me, it is not pretty. Many will not live very long thereafter. The law provides for ER care...but no routine care. As a physician, I am not OK with that.

10. We do have a system. Thousands of people migrate to this country LEGALLY. I WAS ONE OF THEM. We cannot kill them but we sure can deport them. They are not here legally. Not legally means against the law. STOP TRYING TO MAKE THEIR PROBLEMS MY PROBLEMS. We already have enough of our own. Look, I agree with you 100% that we cannot just allow illegal immigration to continue. It is against the law, therefore the term illegal. However, our current system does not work. That is the whole point. There needs to be reform that is much better thought out than our current system. We can't kill them, obviously. And unfortunately...its not so simple to just deport them either. They have already been here, integrated into the society. They have children that are US citizens. What do we do with those kids...send them to a foreign land? Put them in foster care? We need to create a whole new program for those that are already here. So what do we do in the meantime? Deny them all rights/services because the US as a country has failed to regulate their influx? I am not trying to make any problems for you in particular. I am concerned about their well-being, because as a healthcare provider, I see the injustice. Its just plain sad that many just ignore it.

1. I would like to say that we should close the gates now, make all illegal immigrants that are in the US now legal immigrants. But i know that is nearly impossible. There are already too many illegal immigrants to just absorb them into our economies. They were making $2 an hour...now as a legal citizen they are expected to receive no less than $7 an hour (I believe thats the min wage now)

2. Make it easier for those that have been here awhile. New illegal immigrants have to be sent back.

3. The Illegal immigration problem from Mexico has preceded any trade agreement with them. The illegals are to blame and even moreso, the government of Mexico for not helping their impoverished and instead doing nothing to stem the tide of illegal immigrants into the US.

4. Maybe I wrote it wrong, there is no proof that illegal immigration from Canada is even remotely close to what the problem is in the south. The Minutemen do exist on the northern borders, but they are not as active as their counterparts in the south. And Canada is not all caucasian Some 25-30% of Canadians are foreign immigrants.

5. What do I know? My parents live very close to the border in Washington. I can tell you, illegal immigration is the least of their worries. We have more ppl fleeing to Canada after Bush's election than we have Canadians trying to come into the US.

6. . Latin schools were NOT set up because of an already large portion of Spanish speaking legal immigrants but because of a large influx of Latin Americans period. Like I said, the illegal immigration problem is nothing new. Its been around for decades. So some areas instead of having to deal with kids running around causing trouble, offered to educate them. Not every child in those schools are illegal, but not everyone of them are legal.

7. I am sure you would like to help the homeless and the hungry. Does that mean you are gonna invite them into you home and feed them???? SAME PRINCIPLE. And yes, Illegal immigrants are not the sole drain on our economies. Lazy Americans are too. but guess what, its their right to be lazy. And our welfare systems are already taxed because of them. Now add the illegal immigration problem and now you have even more drain on the economy. We don't fix one problem by adding more.

8. See 1 and 2. Before we can address what to do with the illegal immigrants here in the US already, we must address the problem that too many are coming in. We must find a way to stop it or at least manage to stop as much as of it can. Then we can address the problem of what to do with the millions of illegals here. Maybe those that have been a productive member of society ie have jobs and homes...give them citizenship. But for the others maybe we have to say...."sorry...luck of the draw....try again. Good luck to you back home. "

[N1]

In EU its the same. We are invaded from east and south so germany became the leading finantial investor in russian empire. By south they are arabs from north africa and coloured from the african countries once colonized. That is the number one issue in the 21 st century, the waves of poor people looking for the better standard of living in the west economies, G7 economies first ! The WTO has become the center of the world problems because brasil, russia, india and china BRIC the new markets are now in a changing pattern towards developed industrial capitalism and their immigrants could have in their countries better ways of living. But the real problem is the potential rise in world population because if the number raise for the double in 2025 the problem could be explosive. I stand for the solution in the control of world demografic issue.

[Robin_NL]

Good posting N1.

Originally Posted by N1

But the real problem is the potential rise in world population because if the number raise for the double in 2025 the problem could be explosive. I stand for the solution in the control of world demografic issue.

Buy or sell Durex stock

Originally Posted by magmd

Exactly. Please refer to my first post. Let's not let them get away with anything....they are illegals, so let's treat them like the disrespectful animals that they are. Its not like they are humans or anything.

Mag, they are "illegals" because they broke federal law by sneaking across this country's borders under the cover of darkness, this makes them criminals. And so because they are humans we should let them get away with milking our economy dry? I don't think so. But should they be treated like humans? Yes. We should put them on confortable recliner busses and take them back to the border and drop them off with the authorities.

[N1]

Durex its ok lol.
I wish i own the brand.

And collateral is the problem of the number of new born babys in west europe. Its decreasing and as the invaders are growing in new births the number of people originally from our western culture is going away, its a big problem !
Thanks for the compliment ROBIN HOOD yw

Originally Posted by DaveO

Despite propaganda, the success of this country was on the back of hardworking immigrants (throughout the generations..), not the puritans.

LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

[shimshimhada]

We need to move to outer space, but no one listens to me.

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

I just think that if your gonna give one immigrant group citizenship, then why not all the others? I mean europe does have a restriction to enter this country. My uncle was born in italy, lived here for 20 years, and decided to move back to italy. He never obtained his citizenship, only his green card. Well now that hes back in italy, the US wont let him live here again. He can only come back for 6 months at a time. So, i just think its unfair to do it for 1 group but not the others.

What?! You mean he hasn't waited until dark and snuck back in? No way! You mean he's following the laws of this country? The hell you say!

[BellasBmw]

Originally Posted by magmd

I overlooked this. I am sorry to hear about your family being affected like this. Although I agree with the basic motives of this movement, I disagree with people not showing up to work without permission, and kids not going to school. This is just plain counter productive. I am all for people protesting and boycotting for what they believe in, but bottom line...we all have responsibilities that we cannot just throw out the window, and opportunities- like education, that we cannot afford to waste.

With that...I am retiring from this thread. I apologize if I insulted any of you along the way.

Hey miguel, didnt insult me!.. no worries, you make very valid points and i enjoy reading them.

[NaTuReB0Y]

i'm not effected by it......i do my own yard work.

[thedean786]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

I just think that if your gonna give one immigrant group citizenship, then why not all the others? I mean europe does have a restriction to enter this country. My uncle was born in italy, lived here for 20 years, and decided to move back to italy. He never obtained his citizenship, only his green card. Well now that hes back in italy, the US wont let him live here again. He can only come back for 6 months at a time. So, i just think its unfair to do it for 1 group but not the others.

Ok I know this is totally off topic but seriously that is the cutest avatar I have ever seen....awwwww.....

[BellasBmw]

Originally Posted by thedean786

Ok I know this is totally off topic but seriously that is the cutest avatar I have ever seen....awwwww.....

Thanks.. gotta love cats with weird things on their heads

[Nikki]

Illegal immigrants are the reason why there are no labor jobs down here and one of the reasons why we're moving.

[thedean786]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

Thanks.. gotta love cats with weird things on their heads

mine just likes to lay there and occasionally play he won't even let you put anything on him except for his collar. And the only way he'll even stay in your arms is if you cradle him like a baby....

[thedean786]

As a child of immigrants who came here with $500 bucks, worked hard and became citizens the way I see it is if my parents can do it why can't the countless number of illegals who come here everyday? I understand that many of them are poor, hell my folks were too back home, but there is no reason one cannot work toward a dream if you want it bad enough.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by thedean786

As a child of immigrants who came here with $500 bucks, worked hard and became citizens the way I see it is if my parents can do it why can't the countless number of illegals who come here everyday? I understand that many of them are poor, hell my folks were too back home, but there is no reason one cannot work toward a dream if you want it bad enough.

Same. I'll tell you why, because they suck.

Originally Posted by thedean786

As a child of immigrants who came here with $500 bucks, worked hard and became citizens the way I see it is if my parents can do it why can't the countless number of illegals who come here everyday? I understand that many of them are poor, hell my folks were too back home, but there is no reason one cannot work toward a dream if you want it bad enough.

Our modern day Latin American Immigrants choose to come here illegally by sneaking across the United States border under the cover of darkness or, more recently, through underground tunnels. There is no morality, self-respect or dignity any more, it is truly sad. I don't have much compassion for criminals no matter how nice or hard working they are. They should be protesting their own corrupt government and working to make their own country a better place to work and live, not invading ours.