[Puerto Rican 335d]

Chief Orman good choice when I bought the FSd's for my 02 MCS I left the sport springs and the car rode perfectly I have done the same w my '11 NON Sport suspension, hope you enjoy the Shocks they are at 25% discount in Tire rack so you better JUMP on them if you want

[austinla335d]

Originally Posted by rulonger

I like your idea of going with BMW parts. I have found a BMW Performance Suspension kit for the 335d on the Tischer site which includes: four springs, two struts, two shocks, bump stops, front sway bar and all mounting hardware for $1320 shipped. It states that it is a step up from the 'sport suspension'. Is this what you got?

What else did you get installed on your car - control arms, rear sway, etc? Could you send me a list of the parts you had installed?

Thanks

The $1320 kit from Tischer is what I got, slightly cheaper during a sale or something. It included springs made specific for the VIN. I upgraded from Sport suspension, which is terrible. I've had three E90's and all had sport suspension at the start, and it was my most desired thing to fix on each.

I've also got M3 control arms, M3 rear subframe bushings, Dinan camber plates and the ride is fantastic.
Not sure who the $4000 guy is, but you'll get the BMW 2-yr warranty on anything OEM, so don't blow your cash. I paid $300 installed for the performance suspension, and I did control arms and rear subframe bushings at different times. Figure a solid $500-$800 to have it all done at the same time, plus additional cost of parts.

Don't spend $2500 on OEM sport suspension. Spend half that on the far superior BMWPS, and if you feel like it, add the other mods I mentioned above. Just my advice, but I've been driving E90's since 2009 and have "tested" several different setups. For the street, this is the comfort and performance match that 95% of us would like.

[Thisonegoestoeleven]

Originally Posted by austinla335d

The $1320 kit from Tischer is what I got, slightly cheaper during a sale or something. It included springs made specific for the VIN. I upgraded from Sport suspension, which is terrible. I've had three E90's and all had sport suspension at the start, and it was my most desired thing to fix on each.

I've also got M3 control arms, M3 rear subframe bushings, Dinan camber plates and the ride is fantastic.
Not sure who the $4000 guy is, but you'll get the BMW 2-yr warranty on anything OEM, so don't blow your cash. I paid $300 installed for the performance suspension, and I did control arms and rear subframe bushings at different times. Figure a solid $500-$800 to have it all done at the same time, plus additional cost of parts.

Don't spend $2500 on OEM sport suspension. Spend half that on the far superior BMWPS, and if you feel like it, add the other mods I mentioned above. Just my advice, but I've been driving E90's since 2009 and have "tested" several different setups. For the street, this is the comfort and performance match that 95% of us would like.

I think it's hard to say that someone is blowing their cash on a complete oem setup, designed and tested by BMW. I may be wrong, but it stands to reason that the oem sport suspension, engineered by the company to provide certain "sportier" characteristics, yet also maintain safety and other requirements, may not "feel" as tight or right to some, though that's subjective, as actually provide what engineers have found to be "right". I'm not saying you're wrong about the BMWPS, but can we know for sure that by only adding certain components, as the BMWPS doesn't seem to be a complete overhaul, we are achieving a fully harmonious suspension? With a full oem package, I think it's safer to say we are achieving what engineers concluded is harmony.

I think it's great that people are out here trying different setups and sharing their experience. However, unless these custom suspension setups are as rigourously tested by professionals, it's unfair to say that one is better than a complete OEM setup. After all, some don't have the luxury to make their own attempts at a better setup, and must trust others'. It's easy to be excited and enthusiastic about what we feel is correct, but more difficult to come to a definite conclusion. Does the BMWPS actually allow you to get around a track more quickly, all else being equal? Or, does it just feel like it would?

To me, the sport suspension doesn't feel terrible, but I don't have much context to compare. I rely on others around here for information, and I respect your opinion. Perhaps it would be better if you could elaborate more clearly the improvements, than saying that one thing is terrible and that 95% of us should just take for granted that your conclusion suits better.

[austinla335d]

Originally Posted by Thisonegoestoeleven

I think it's hard to say that someone is blowing their cash on a complete oem setup, designed and tested by BMW. I may be wrong, but it stands to reason that the oem sport suspension, engineered by the company to provide certain "sportier" characteristics, yet also maintain safety and other requirements, may not "feel" as tight or right to some, though that's subjective, as actually provide what engineers have found to be "right". I'm not saying you're wrong about the BMWPS, but can we know for sure that by only adding certain components, as the BMWPS doesn't seem to be a complete overhaul, we are achieving a fully harmonious suspension? With a full oem package, I think it's safer to say we are achieving what engineers concluded is harmony.

I think it's great that people are out here trying different setups and sharing their experience. However, unless these custom suspension setups are as rigourously tested by professionals, it's unfair to say that one is better than a complete OEM setup. After all, some don't have the luxury to make their own attempts at a better setup, and must trust others'. It's easy to be excited and enthusiastic about what we feel is correct, but more difficult to come to a definite conclusion. Does the BMWPS actually allow you to get around a track more quickly, all else being equal? Or, does it just feel like it would?

To me, the sport suspension doesn't feel terrible, but I don't have much context to compare. I rely on others around here for information, and I respect your opinion. Perhaps it would be better if you could elaborate more clearly the improvements, than saying that one thing is terrible and that 95% of us should just take for granted that your conclusion suits better.

While I understand the knee-jerk response as a civilized facilitator enforcing moderation, you might be missing the point. That's the nice way of saying you're unfounded. (And that's the adequate but off-putting way of saying it). In the spirit of over elaborating, my current vehicle came equipped with M-Sport suspension, but it's only difference is the springs and one sway bar. And it's a terrible suspension compared to the BMWPS. The sport, which I have two vehicles' experience with, and M-Sport alike, can pop you out of your seat in road undulations, tends to feel loose at speed in corners (not always but in hindsight I didn't know what I was missing so it was more often than I realized), and expansion gap interchanges on the freeways of SoCal can cause the car to scoot and catch, front wheels, back wheels, front wheels, back wheels. A big part is the rear subframe bushings which allow up to 3/4" of play and that second light "shimmy" after being upset by road conditions. Another part is sub-par components to meet the need of the masses.
Praise BMW engineers all you want, they have a more precise goal of offering as much bang for the buck as possible while emphasizing "as possible". The OEM sport suspension sits lower than the non-sport and that's about it. The engineers wanted to keep the price low and worked within the confines of a budget before testing a thing. When the same struts and shocks are used for multiple ride heights and spring tensions, that's a cost saving decision, not a precision engineering decision. They also needed to make the suspension compliant enough for most people to find it suitable while offering the sleek look of a lower vehicle sitting on larger wheels. It's "sporty", it's not "performance".
The PS was designed by the Performance group who had the budget and R&D time to focus on performance, knowing that anyone opting for that package would be after performance. BMW engineers, albeit performance oriented BMW engineers, created the BMWPS as a worthy upgrade. Ask the BMW Performance Group the same questions you're posing to me and see if eyes don't roll. "You want to know if the performance suspension equipped cars are as fast around a track as the stock sport suspension cars?"

By way of comparing BMW engineered entry-level sport suspension to apparently inferior until proven otherwise BMW engineered mid-level performance suspension, you're being that guy. I would consider high level the M category, which only shared something like 50% of the parts as compared to a non-M.

My post mentioned the other components I use, which get closer to rounding out the suspension, but I liked it and stopped there, so I didn't go "complete overhaul" on that front. Look at my post numbers... I've clearly discussed this stuff before today. That heavenly search emoticon should go here, but what's the point?

I'm offering the advice the OP requested.

1) I don't need to exaggerate. Read what BMW says about the Performance Suspension. Read what *most* forum members in the correct forum category say about the sport suspension on 18"/19" with run flats. "Terrible" is a conservative consensus. You're not the majority if you feel otherwise. You probably just have a lower or completely different expectation of capability.
2) Replacing all suspension components that classify the original suspension as "sport" is what the PS does, and then some. It's not a *complete* overhaul, thanks for pointing that out, but it is a complete sport suspension replacement including shocks, struts, springs, bushings, bump stops, hardware, and if equipped with an M-Sport, the rear sway is replaced as well. All non-M's except X-Drive vehicles share almost all suspension components, sport or not.
The springs and sway might be the only difference actually.
3) I've been on the forums for what feels like forever, and in my experience, ESPECIALLY on the M57 forum, those looking into suspension upgrades but not asking in the suspension forum are either long winded or straight to the point: they want a better stance, better performance, and/or a better ride. Usually all 3 in some order. But they don't want rice, they don't want junk, and of course, they don't want to spend too much. Most people want BMWPS whether they know it or not, not because I know everything, but because it offers everything they want, including OEM peace of mind, fit and finish. KW coil overs are not reliable, Eibach springs need a strong strut/shock, especially on the rebound, and price themselves into PS territory, H&R kits are bouncy or (for most) too low and too stiff, Tein do not make quality riding E90 springs, almost all camber plates end up making plenty of the worst kind of noise, driving the street-only car owner nuts. I could go on. This is all from experience (search my posts). To make it a bit more confusing for the diesel folks, aside from BMW you aren't going to find a different part number between a 335i and 335d. That's going to culminate in sagging suspension and uncomposed ride characteristics. Nothing worse than an unpredictable car.
To drive it home, BMWPS is warranted identically to the suspension that comes equipped on your vehicle and if you are within 2 years of your warranty expiring it extends your warranty on those parts.
4) Search countless forum posts on BMWPS, including my own, if you're interested in learning more in detail. I happily reported as many do when deciding to buy. There's a sub-forum for that, and it's not this one.

I hope my response is found acceptable.

[Thisonegoestoeleven]

Yes, I missed your point, of what looked to me like little more than an insult to another's decision at a suspension refresh/upgrade. I didn't think I was unfounded in wanting clarification. However, I was wrong assuming your intent. I am admittedly unfounded in my knowledge of suspension engineering, which is why I asked you to elaborate on your position.

One thread doesn't assume knowledge provided from another, unless a link to that past information is provided. I haven't been around here forever, so my memory is limited to the threads which I have read and searched through. To expect people to search through threads for your justification of a position seems egotistical. Why not just reference your past posts in a link to support yourself instead?

I apologize for the misunderstanding on my part and being abrasive. There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding suspension tinkering. My intent was not to insult your knowledge, but rather to ascertain a positive understanding from your opinion. I appriciate your insight provided on the BMWPS. I learned from it, am now more interested and will do some reading. It would be my preference to move forward amiably.

[mob17]

M sport suspension is shit

[Thisonegoestoeleven]

Originally Posted by mob17

M sport suspension is shit

U.S. spec M sport suspension or EU M sport suspension?

Or Team M Sports' suspension on their Continental GT3?
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-new...hour-race.html

Oh the Vogonity! Resistance is useless.....
Da da Da Dum...

[mob17]

Pretty much agree with everything austinla335d has said.

The OEM sport or M Sport suspension isn't great. The dampers can not handle bumps, and then on slow compression they seem too soft.

It's pretty much a balance between looking sporty, feeling sporty (via hard ride!), run flat tires and cost.

Even upgrading the M Sport shocks to just entry level Bilstein B4s will give an improvement.

[mob17]

Also its not just shocks/springs.

I have Ohlins and my handling can still be improved upon. Rear SF bushes, higher rear spring rates and M3 arms are a few more things that can be done.

[rulonger]

I really appreciate the comments and insights shared on this thread. I am still working up the total budget and deciding how far I will go - stop at shocks/springs or change some other parts like control arms and rear sf bushings.

A quick update on where I am in the decision process:

I was originally choosing between Koni or Bilstein. I was certain that I would buy a pro-kit which would combine the chosen brand of shocks/struts with Eibach springs. This choice would lower the car about an inch (a priority of mine) and would improve the ride quality over the base suspension. Sukutash was high on the Bilsteins and PuertoRico335d swears on the Koni FSDs. I went so far as to order a Bilstein B12 kit, but then had second thoughts and returned (hat tip to TireRack). The kit with install was going to be just over $1200.

Then Crawler got me thinking about some OE BMW upgrades. I like the idea of sticking with BMW expertise and the extended warranty they offer on their OE kits. In further searching, I found the BMW Performance Suspension upgrade kit for the E90s at Tischer. It seemed like a more complete upgrade because it comes with new bump stops and a front sway bar upgrade. Now the budget had been stretched to about $1700. And AustinLA335d's comments are quite convincing. He has sold me on the BMW Performance suspension.

By this time I had also become convinced that I will want to add M3 control arms in the front and replace the rear subframe bushings. While everything is in pieces, I may as well change other parts, RIGHT? So now I have a parts budget of somewhere just north of $2000 - all quoted on Tischer - and an install cost that will top $1000. I actually got a quote for $2000 from a local indy shop. After seeing what these shops think I would be willing to pay in labor, I might have to take Sukutash up on the offer of a suspension install weekend in Atlanta ! ! !

I will soon be placing the order with Tischer. But before that, I will need to raid the kids' college fund.

[Yozh]

I probably should have posted this earlier, but for those trigger happy guys and gals. Koni shocks are on sale at Turner Motorsport. 25% off. Bad news, it ends today. ECS has Koni Sports on sale as well, but just the rear ones.

[Chief Orman]

Just got my Koni FSDs installed. Of all the modifications I have made to my car, this has been the best money I have ever spent. My 335d has 70K and I don't think I appreciated how totally shot my shocks were. The FSDs work EXACTLY as advertised...the car is flat and tight in corners and incredibly smooth over crappy streets. I now no longer rattle my teeth over potholes. As you guys know, with a sport suspension one often feels like they are abusing their car while it gets pounded to death over potholed streets. The car is quieter, smoother and handles much better. No more wallowing under acceleration off the line. My car has been transformed. Best money I have spent.

[335ddd]

Chief Orman got me thinking. For someone who is happy with a height of a stock sport suspension would the money be better spent on

$1350 BMWPS
or
$670 KONI FSD + $530 M3 control arms and/or $220 m3 Sway front sway bar ~$1420

I am mostly interested in a less harsh / more compliant ride over the terrible NYC roads while keeping run flats until they wear out (on stock rims).

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by 335ddd

Chief Orman got me thinking. For someone who is happy with a height of a stock sport suspension would the money be better spent on

$1350 BMWPS

BMWPS package does include BMWPS yellow springs that do lower the vehicle about 1" for standard suspension and about 0.6" for the sport suspension. They are also feature slightly increased spring rates over sport suspension. Your stock ride height will be slightly affected.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by 335ddd

Chief Orman got me thinking. For someone who is happy with a height of a stock sport suspension would the money be better spent on

$1350 BMWPS
or
$670 KONI FSD + $530 M3 control arms and/or $220 m3 Sway front sway bar ~$1420

I am mostly interested in a less harsh / more compliant ride over the terrible NYC roads while keeping run flats until they wear out (on stock rims).

Go for the latter hands down. It is such a relief to have the harshness gone. By the way, the FSDs did way more to improve the ride than getting rid of my run flat tires.

Spent a couple hours driving tonight. Harshness gone AND car feels tighter and handles A LOT better. Flatter, sharper with no more suspension bounce and float above 80 mph.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

There you go Chief Orman has made it clear the Koni FSd's are a great asset to our cars. Ive using koni FSD's for aprox 8 years on my 02 MCS and now my 335d and i SWEAR by them. Glad you got them Chief and great review

[TDIwyse]

Anyone install their own Koni FSD's? Any tips and suggestions would be appreciated. I watched an install video on youtube from Bavarian Autosports ... looks like some special tools are needed. And the fronts look more involved than I would've expected.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Anyone install their own Koni FSD's? Any tips and suggestions would be appreciated. I watched an install video on youtube from Bavarian Autosports ... looks like some special tools are needed. And the fronts look more involved than I would've expected.

I had my local mechanic install them and he practically had a nervous breakdown trying to get them in. He said that the space is so tight that it took him longer than expected and mumbled something about specialized tools. That said, while these guys are very good mechanics they spend 99% of their working on Hondas.

[rulonger]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Anyone install their own Koni FSD's? Any tips and suggestions would be appreciated. I watched an install video on youtube from Bavarian Autosports ... looks like some special tools are needed. And the fronts look more involved than I would've expected.

From earlier in the thread, Sukutash did his own install for a suspension upgrade that included shocks/struts, rear sub-frame bushings, etc. He may be a good source for the DIY insights.

[Chief Orman]

I'll stop raving about the FSDs but christ have they breathed new life into my car.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

I had my local mechanic install them and he practically had a nervous breakdown trying to get them in. He said that the space is so tight that it took him longer than expected and mumbled something about specialized tools. That said, while these guys are very good mechanics they spend 99% of their working on Hondas.

Finished installing my FSD's (588 delivered from Turnersports when using their online coupon) and Strut/Shock mount kit (from Turner Motor Sports) about an hour ago and did a test drive. So far so good.

The rear was pretty straight forward. The fronts turned out to be quite a challenge. Had to modify some sockets to create flat edges to grip so an allen head could go through the center, and keep the shaft the nut was tightening on, from spinning. The rears needed this kind of thing as well, but I had some pass-through sockets that fit those sizes.

And working with those springs on the front shocks wasn't fun. And my gosh there's a lot of crap to unhook and move out of the way on the fronts... and yes, things are tight. Also had to keep the spring compressor on, and partially compressing, the front shock/spring towers to get them to fit back into the vehicle. That was something I didn't see any warnings about on the youtube video's I watched.


Hope I don't have to do this again anytime soon. Especially if its hot and humid like this weekend was. Lots and lots of sweating...

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Finished installing my FSD's (588 delivered from Turnersports when using their online coupon) and Strut/Shock mount kit (from Turner Motor Sports) about an hour ago and did a test drive. So far so good.

The rear was pretty straight forward. The fronts turned out to be quite a challenge. Had to modify some sockets to create flat edges to grip so an allen head could go through the center, and keep the shaft the nut was tightening on, from spinning. The rears needed this kind of thing as well, but I had some pass-through sockets that fit those sizes.

And working with those springs on the front shocks wasn't fun. And my gosh there's a lot of crap to unhook and move out of the way on the fronts... and yes, things are tight. Also had to keep the spring compressor on, and partially compressing, the front shock/spring towers to get them to fit back into the vehicle. That was something I didn't see any warnings about on the youtube video's I watched.


Hope I don't have to do this again anytime soon. Especially if its hot and humid like this weekend was. Lots and lots of sweating...

TDI you can start a support group with my local mechanic. He had to spend the better part of two days getting all four installed and talked about exactly the same issues around the difficulty of installing the front shocks.