Intake system

[drftorres]

I am considering BMS Intake or AWE intake.

BMW is cheaper and looks like they increase HP better (10 hp to the wheel) vs AWE (12 hp to the crank). Don't know if I can use the AWE system without the intake box. AWE looks so awesome in carbon fiber!!

Thanks in advanced!

[BoosTonian]

The intakes are primarily for sound. The increases won't be seen unless you're pushing 26+psi (according to Bms)

But oh boy do they sound good you can hear turbo suction the entire time you're pressing the gas pedal and its audible even with the windows up..it's fantastic. Also lets you hear blowoff a little better too. I love my Bms and think it looks great under the hood!

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by drftorres

I am considering BMS Intake or AWE intake.

BMW is cheaper and looks like they increase HP better (10 hp to the wheel) vs AWE (12 hp to the crank). Don't know if I can use the AWE system without the intake box. AWE looks so awesome in carbon fiber!!

Thanks in advanced!

Have you considered MSR intakes. He just recently released them and on the M5s it's the only intake out there with the most power gains due to its unique design.

Check out the pictures on Instagram m6beast

The sound on my F10 M5 is intoxicating. Much diff from the others. Price is higher but your getting top notch intakes and the customer service is amazing. Not to mention the gains.

[808M3]

I looked at those intakes and they don't "seem" to be much different than OEM.
The pipes are very similiar and are needed only to use their air filters (although the AWE looks gorgeous in carbon). I decided to go with a high flow filter that fits OEM intake. I'm hoping someone can do some numbers to see what the difference in power really is. I'm guessing aside from aesthetics, not much (between those two intakes and high flow air filter).

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Is your goal sound looks or performance?

Some get open element intakes for sound, performance is fairly negligible on this platform so any intake will be about the same for performance or go with panel filter upgrades.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by MThree_driver

The intakes are primarily for sound. The increases won't be seen unless you're pushing 26+psi (according to Bms)

But oh boy do they sound good you can hear turbo suction the entire time you're pressing the gas pedal and its audible even with the windows up..it's fantastic. Also lets you hear blowoff a little better too. I love my Bms and think it looks great under the hood!

The sound is truly amazing on the BMS one (open element) If opting for closed box intake then sound will be different / less / none at all.

The AWE intake does look amazing with the CF, but unless its a show car, how often do you open your hood.

Power gains are ZERO to extrememly minimal in the upper RPM range.

Mike

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by drftorres

I am considering BMS Intake or AWE intake.

BMW is cheaper and looks like they increase HP better (10 hp to the wheel) vs AWE (12 hp to the crank). Don't know if I can use the AWE system without the intake box. AWE looks so awesome in carbon fiber!!

Thanks in advanced!

If you are going for sound get the BMS. If youare more interested in looks, get AWE.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Here are some power gains on the AWE Intake. Looks like the AWE offers a little more then just a pretty intake.
11WHP peak gain to the wheel plus more power under the curve.

AWE gets my vote.

[drftorres]

Any dyno test of AWE intake with JB4?

[drftorres]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Here are some power gains on the AWE Intake. Looks like the AWE offers a little more then just a pretty intake.
11WHP peak gain to the wheel plus more power under the curve.

AWE's website says it gives 12 hp at the crank. Please, verify info. Thanks

[Stryker_F80]

Originally Posted by drftorres

AWE's website says it gives 12 hp at the crank. Please, verify info. Thanks

Hey Brother,

I have the AWE Intake & I personally love it! It looks amazing! When you open your hood it's an instant attention grabber! Besides the looks I did feel a slight diff in the top end. The one thing I can say about AWE from owning their Resonated Exhaust, Intake & Heat Exchanger is they make a quality product & don't BS! You can also ride with the covers off which sounds amazing! from my end!

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by drftorres

AWE's website says it gives 12 hp at the crank. Please, verify info. Thanks

The dyno gains claim WHP and Crank, also from their site. Don't shoot the messenger.

If I'm honest, whether 12 crank or WHP it's pretty moot. With a typical 15% in powertrain loss that puts you at 10.2WHP. A horse power or 2 is not going to be a sufficient gain or loss.

You lose way more acceleration just adding a passenger.

If you add 100 lbs to the vehicle (IE another light passenger) you lost a good tenth off your quarter mile time. A 1-2 HP difference would deem completely negligible in the same scenario.

It should probably go without saying that during a typical dyno run, runs can vary by a few %. 1% on a 450HP car that's a difference of 5HP plus or minus.

[brian30tw]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

It should probably go without saying that during a typical dyno run, runs can vary by a few %. 1% on a 450HP car that's a difference of 5HP plus or minus.

Which is why you shouldn't claim 10-12 whp differences as a significant gain...

For all we know, the "stock" line comes from a "minus 5HP" run, while the red line comes from a "plus 5HP" run, and the 10 whp difference is random noise.

[Warranty P]

Originally Posted by brian30tw

Which is why you shouldn't claim 10-12 whp differences as a significant gain...

For all we know, the "stock" line comes from a "minus 5HP" run, while the red line comes from a "plus 5HP" run, and the 10 whp difference is random noise.

Calm down, intakes are a biggest money waste out there. Besides that Dyno looks like somebody drew it with a marker.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by brian30tw

Which is why you shouldn't claim 10-12 whp differences as a significant gain...

For all we know, the "stock" line comes from a "minus 5HP" run, while the red line comes from a "plus 5HP" run, and the 10 whp difference is random noise.

After reading through this read, I can't seem to find the area where I said 10-12 whp is a significant gain?

As far as your latter remark, you may be right but then again you are relying on me as the source of that information, which happened to be purely theoretical and speculation on my part.

Let's stick with facts and avoid pointing fingers, no reason to get worked up.

[brian30tw]

Haha, I don't know why everyone thinks I'm getting worked up! I'm just pointing out a logical conclusion from the natural variance in runs, not pointing fingers or anything like that. No disrespect intended, so sorry if I came across like that. And I didn't mean to imply you specifically thought 10 whp is significant, just building off of your point about variance in dyno runs.

[mark5092]

Never notice 10-12 HP on a 3600 lb car!!! Now on a 400 lb motorcycle 10-12 HP will get your attention!

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by mark5092

Never notice 10-12 HP on a 3600 lb car!!! Now on a 400 lb motorcycle 10-12 HP will get your attention!

Every little bit helps, intakes just won't be the part contributing to it.

[Josh/AWE]

Hi everyone! Figured I could hop in here and shed some light on the topics at hand.

Brain and Warrant, as you may or may not already be aware of… our dyno sheets have been continuously published since 1999, which was the year we took delivery of our first chassis dynamometer (we have been in business since 1991).

Over the past 16+ years of multiple dyno ownership, we’ve developed the operator skillset to enable true, transparent chassis dyno results, ones that have been, and can always be, duplicated by our customers.

Further, we always provide two separate sheets – one straight from our dyno, and the other with a realistic correction factor based on our wheel results vs factory published crank results.

We do this to be as transparent as possible and to answer all the typical customer questions we encounter (particularly: what's it make at the crank?).

When a vehicle touches our in-house dyno, it endures torture. When possible, we do same day, continuous runs. We ensure weather and atmosphere variables, among other things (heat soak via cool down periods, etc.) are nulled from the equation - preventing the raw data from being skewed, intentionally or unintentionally, in any way.

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

If I'm honest, whether 12 crank or WHP it's pretty moot. With a typical 15% in powertrain loss that puts you at 10.2WHP. A horse power or 2 is not going to be a sufficient gain or loss....

The F8X in stock form was putting down big numbers from the beginning.

If the “typical 15% powertrain loss" correction factor to estimate crank power were used then the resulting data would cause great skepticism from the market: we saw 407whp range stock on multiple vehicles when testing. Adding 15% powertrain loss would have resulted in 479 crank hp, *stock*!

So, in this case, 15% is just too generous of a correction, it's not believable that the factory would underrate a car that badly (though they do underrate!). We chose a more reasonable powertrain loss of ~5% (4.76%), bringing stock crank hp estimates to 427hp.

Also note that it is quite rare to see power gains when replacing the intake and keeping all other factors equal. The factory isn't dumb, they have designed their hardware properly to work with their intended power goals. It's when you start ramping up the power big time, like with a power module, that the factory parts can start to show their limitations.

Our intake gains are generated through intensive CFD modeling to ensure optimized internal box aerodynamics and filter flow, as well as strategic heat source control. Further, we do real world testing of 3D printed rapid prototypes, with design revision as test-data dictated. Our mechanical engineers here have learned a thing or two in 25 years of AWE Tuning product development!

Finally, with all things considered, involving an intake utilizing OEM inlet ducting and mounting locations, a 12hp gain on top of a power module and exhaust is pretty significant. And, in the case of our intake design, real.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Josh/AWE

Hi everyone! Figured I could hop in here and shed some light on the topics at hand.

Brain and Warrant, as you may or may not already be aware of… our dyno sheets have been continuously published since 1999, which was the year we took delivery of our first chassis dynamometer (we have been in business since 1991).

Over the past 16+ years of multiple dyno ownership, we’ve developed the operator skillset to enable true, transparent chassis dyno results, ones that have been, and can always be, duplicated by our customers.

Further, we always provide two separate sheets – one straight from our dyno, and the other with a realistic correction factor based on our wheel results vs factory published crank results.

We do this to be as transparent as possible and to answer all the typical customer questions we encounter (particularly: what's it make at the crank?).

When a vehicle touches our in-house dyno, it endures torture. When possible, we do same day, continuous runs. We ensure weather and atmosphere variables, among other things (heat soak via cool down periods, etc) are nulled from the equation - preventing the raw data from being skewed, intentionally or unintentionally, in any way.



The F8X in stock form was putting down big numbers from the beginning.

If the “typical 15% powertrain loss" correction factor to estimate crank power were used then the resulting data would cause great skepticism from the market: we saw 407whp range stock on multiple vehicles when testing. Adding 15% powertrain loss would have resulted in 479 crank hp, *stock*!

So, in this case, 15% is just too generous of a correction, it's not believable that the factory would underrate a car that badly (though they do underrate!). We chose a more reasonable powertrain loss of ~5% (4.76%), bringing stock crank hp estimates to 427hp.

Also note that it is quite rare to see power gains when replacing the intake and keeping all other factors equal. The factory isn't dumb, they have designed their hardware properly to work with their intended power goals. It's when you start ramping up the power big time, like with a power module, that the factory parts can start to show their limitations.

Our intake gains are generated through intensive CFD modeling to ensure optimized internal box aerodynamics and filter flow, as well as strategic heat source control. Further, we do real world testing of 3D printed rapid prototypes, with design revision as test-data dictated. Our mechanical engineers here have learned a thing or two in 25 years of AWE Tuning product development!

Finally, with all things considered, involving an intake utilizing OEM inlet ducting and mounting locations, a 12hp gain on top of a power module and exhaust is pretty significant. And, in the case of our intake design, real.

You make some excellent points, Josh.

I agree 15% is a bit old school these days on the powertrain loss.

You are also right about the factory ECU limiting power increases to maintain "Factory Output.

In conjunction with the proper tune that potential power could be (dare i say) significantly more?

By the way, Josh, I'm not sure if you have the data but if you have the flow rating of stock VS AWE, it may help the cause too.

Thanks for the clarifications

Originally Posted by brian30tw

Haha, I don't know why everyone thinks I'm getting worked up! I'm just pointing out a logical conclusion from the natural variance in runs, not pointing fingers or anything like that. No disrespect intended, so sorry if I came across like that. And I didn't mean to imply you specifically thought 10 whp is significant, just building off of your point about variance in dyno runs.

Apology accepted It's all good!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by MThree_driver

Also lets you hear blowoff a little better too.

What blow off ?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by brian30tw

Which is why you shouldn't claim 10-12 whp differences as a significant gain...

For all we know, the "stock" line comes from a "minus 5HP" run, while the red line comes from a "plus 5HP" run, and the 10 whp difference is random noise.

What is stock?

According to AWE, the gains from the intake were achieved on a tuned car. I doubt we would see as much gains from the intake on a stock tune.

EDIT: Just realized AWE had already responded .