[samwoo2go]

o man here we go...

Originally Posted by fermion

if that is the case, why does the chinese government plant informers within tibetan monastaries and force monks to undergo "patriotic reeducation"? are you saying the chinese government closed down 90% of tibet's monastaries in the name of religious freedom?

No the chinese governerment closed down Tibet temples in the name of national security...Do Americans torture terrist suspects without due process in Guatemala in the name of human rights?


this sounds awfully similar to burma doesn't it? it seems that the chinese communist regime is not much different than the military junta in burma. kinda scary isn't it.

No that sounds like any nation in the world, no government will stand by and do nothing when its citizens pratice in domestic terrism. This is why we have FBI in united states, for people like this.



are you claiming that china rescued starving tibetans by giving them food and water? you seem to be forgetting some of communist china's unpleasant history. remember Mao's great leap forward between 1959 and 1962? The forced collectivization of agriculture resulted in the biggest famine in modern history with an excess of 15 million people within china starving to death during which over 100,000 tibetans starved to death. don't believe me? look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

by the way, the 15 million deaths is the government's own statistics, the actual number is believed to be far higher.

china didn't rescue starving tibetans. china caused the tibetans to starve to death.

just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. it just means the communist chinese government has succeeded in suppressing its own unpleasant history. it is painful to comtemplate the fact that there are hundreds of millions of chinese in china and worldwide who are growing up now without knowledge of these events. as they say, those who forget history and destined to repeat it.

O save me the whole evil Mao speech, trust me every chinese knows the history, its only been 50 years for PRC, not that long to remember. My grandfather was a victim of the great leap forward and the cultural revolution.

There is a famous saying in China.
Mao...
Merit for birth of nation
Demerit for nation building
Crime for cultural revolution

Lets not forget during those times, Tibetans are not the only ones starving, so were the Hans and any other ethnicity in China at the time. Not saying that makes it ok, but at least the government weren't being biased at all when it comes to dicking people over, its not like the chinese government made the Tibetans sit at the back of the bus or anything.

Do you even know half the shit that happened during the cultural revolution? 1 of the things is the goverment tried to help out the rural areas and even out the differences between the city and country, all university education stopped and young HANS from the city were persuaded/forced to join the effort relieving the country... MILLIONS of HAN students got trucked into the country doing hard labor alongside rural people including but not limited to TIBETANS, and some never returned to the city.

Get your history right, the chinese liberated tibetans from the enslavment by the british and the puppet elitist buddhist government they help set up led by dalai lama. And then everybody starved in China not just the Tibetans. and that was almost 50 years ago, now they are living way better lives than their neighbor in Burma, which other wise would not be possible without the chinese.
If you must say the chinese starved the Tibetans, FINE the chinese starved the ELITIST BUDDHIST REGIME in Tibet who were feeding themselves fat while enslaving millions of Tibetans who were not buddhist and must subject themselves to middle ages treatment including starvation.

just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. it just means ignorant foreigners failed to understand history of another nation before they decided to open their mouth. it is painful to comtemplate the fact that there are hundreds of millions of foreigners worldwide who are growing up now that actually think chinese people don't know their own history for good or for bad. as they say, those who don't know history are destined to sound like a fool.
It just pisses me off to no end when people come out here talking like they are chinese history experts or something. And if you really are a chinese history expert, why must you sir only talk about the bad. Why can't you be subjective thus making youself more credible.

MAO IS EVIL DURING THE CULTURAL REVOLIUTION - AGREEDED...
now what...
why don't you talk about Dung's socio-economic reform during the 80's which had a ripple effect throughout the country INCLUDING TIBET?
Why don't you talk about Hu's humane method of dealing with the recent Tibetan protest?
Why don't you talk about why a bigger percentage of chinese people receive free health care compared to united states?
Why don't you talk about the government's swift dealings with the recent earthquake compared to Katrina?

Is it because you didn't know, or you didn't want to be subjective?

O and just fyi, my grandpa was arrested and send to a chicken farm for 10 years because he spoke against mao's cultural revolution at his post (vice director of the district education department). when it ended and Dung took office he reinstated my grandpa and promoted him to the party secretary of the district where he later got promoted to be the mayor. He is retired now and receives completely free healthcare for him and his family including ME who is an US citizen, and more pension than he can spend, not to mention at retirement the government sold him a million dollar home in the middle of the city for 8 thousand.

Trust me, I know the bad shit the chinese government did and do. But unlike you, I also know about the good. From my humble viewpoint, as a whole, the government has served its people. Even during the great leap forward, which failed, what was the government's intent? def not to kill millions, just bad policy to try to strengthen the nation and provide for the citizens.

China has thousands years of history, but PRC only has 50 years. for the most populus country in the world with 1.3 billion people without any infrastrure and ranked the poorest in the world in 1949 to develope into what she is now is nothing short of a miracle. Yes shes got plenty of problems still but shit takes time man. Hows was America 50 years after independence? DPRK is still the same today as she is in 1949, what the hell did they do for 50 years? I know what the chinese did.

In conclusion, if you support Tibet indepedence, your supporting Theocracy, because like it or not that's whos fighting the hardest for Tibet independence, the ones NOT starving before the chinese came. The ones with the whips, the ones that own slaves, the ones that ruled.

open your eyes